Did I bust something on the loader hydraulics?

[npalen]

Might try removing the bucket and rest the ends of the boom on the floor to compare. See if one boom is up off the floor similar to the end of the bucket as you show in the pics.

Edit: Does the grapple attach to the bucket shown in the video? If so, perhaps the bucket is tweaked. (You mentioned using the grapple when the incident occurred)

 

[JCoastie]

the SSQA faces seemed square when I removed the grapple and put the bucket on. I was thinking the SSQA tube twisted, but that was not the case. I didn't however check them down on a flat surface, I'll try that. Visually it seems the lift arms are at different heights, also verified that with a level show in the pic on the previous page. The bucket and the grapple have the same tilt, it is not the attachment, it is the FEL causing the issue. I can also see the FEL is off from the drivers seat, there is a flat bar on top of the FEL torque tube that houses the hydraulic lines, and when that rises above the brush guard, using that as a visual reference, you can see it is not level. I did have the grapple attached when I hit the tree that caused this, but have switched attachments back and forth a few times since. The grapple is a stand alone attachment, it does not attach to the bucket.

 

[Loaderman22]

I've also had an issue with my old JD2155, but the internal sleeve (that the pin rides in) on the very end of the loader arm shifted inside the loader arm. Had to take out pin, jack up loader arm to see the sleeve without the loader mount in the way.

Do you by any chance have a framing square, not just a speed square? Could the tube be bent in the middle, past the reach of the square you're using?

 

[JCoastie]

I do have a framing square, I'll check that tomorrow when there is light, there is no visual bend though.
The loader pins seem to spin freely without any binding when unloaded, but I have not taken them out or removed the loader. I've never removed the loader, and I'm a bit unsure/uneasy about attempting it.

 

[Loaderman22]

I do have a framing square, I'll check that tomorrow when there is light, there is no visual bend though.
The loader pins seem to spin freely without any binding when unloaded, but I have not taken them out or removed the loader. I've never removed the loader, and I'm a bit unsure/uneasy about attempting it.

Don't blame you, if something is tweaked, then things will likely not go back together as easily.

 

[JWR]

I think it is primarily the loader frame itself. I say"primarily" because when a complex structure like that gets torqued or spindled, the end result is almost certainly a combination of several things being very slightly "off" such as a slight bend in the cross bar of the loader frame plus attachment bolts that "gave" a little bit during the incident plus the left/right shifting of rest points of the loader frame in the cradle where it rests allowing quick removal of the loader, etc. All those things and probably others are additive in the final distortion of what was once "square." I doubt that you can ever measure or visually find the culprit as it is the sum of many. All you can really hope to do is get it back square enough where you don't care any more. That is exactly what I did when I bent my loader.

 

[MHarryE]

I remember you said it looked straight when raised all the way. By any chance does one cylinder reach its limit before the other? That would be the case if the loader frame was twisted some way. If they both reach end of stroke at the same time it is the rear attaching points - like you mentioned the tractor had been split, loader removed. You have already tried aligning but worth another shot. Rear tire pressure check but that couldn’t be caused by hitting a tree hanging from the left end of your bucket.

 

[Vigo327]

Popping a lot of E-popcorn over here. Im keeping THIS post short so some people in this thread can uh.. finish it.

Im certainly interested in what the solution turns out to be.

 

[ismilelots]

I was carrying a 16' log in my grapple and I clipped a standing tree on the left side. It wasn't crazy hard, i.e. the tires didn't come off the ground, but the left side of the tractor dove a bit. After it was over the loader was no longer level side to side, the left side was down about an inch and a half to two inches. I guess I was hopeful it'd be a bent SSQA torque tube which seems fairly straight forward to correct, but the SSQA faces are square. I can see nothing bent visibly.
Looking at the loader arms, one is definitely higher than the other. In use, It seems I can lift to max height evenly (as best I can tell) and I can press down so the implement sits flat on the ground, but I can also dig in more on the left side since it is uneven. I really don't know what's wrong. After I shutdown, I always relieve the hydraulic pressure by lowering the 3pt hitch, and the loader arms, I also toggle the loader joystick to release any remaining pressure once completely shut down. We often use the bucket top as a seat, and it's always been solid. This morning I noticed this (shutdown overnight and not started this morning), there is no pressure in the hydraulic system, all 4 rams move when I step on the bucket. Any ideas, and it is related to my uneven issue?

Video of what I am seeing New video by JCoastie

I had that happen on my LS. Apparently it had something to do with compressing the one cylinder and it didn't bounce back. My dealer said to try raising and lowering the loader all the way up and down into the float position. After 5 times, it was right again.

 

[rScotty]

the SSQA faces seemed square when I removed the grapple and put the bucket on. I was thinking the SSQA tube twisted, but that was not the case. I didn't however check them down on a flat surface, I'll try that. Visually it seems the lift arms are at different heights, also verified that with a level show in the pic on the previous page. The bucket and the grapple have the same tilt, it is not the attachment, it is the FEL causing the issue. I can also see the FEL is off from the drivers seat, there is a flat bar on top of the FEL torque tube that houses the hydraulic lines, and when that rises above the brush guard, using that as a visual reference, you can see it is not level. I did have the grapple attached when I hit the tree that caused this, but have switched attachments back and forth a few times since. The grapple is a stand alone attachment, it does not attach to the bucket.

JCoastie, the thread seems to have gotten confusing. As near as I can tell, half the replies are about the loader not being square after being stressed, and the other half are about why the FEL bucket bounces like it does in your video back in your opening post.

I'm not at all convinced that the two things are connected.
rScotty

 

[Zebrafive]

I am waiting to see the results of loosening all the loader mount bolts, leveling the boom arms (side to side) or torque tube, then tightening the mount bolts to torque spec.
OP said he did one side, then the other, but not both loosened at the same time.

 

[RancherGuy]

The pipe has to be twisted back to the original position by an over-compensating reverse-twist to overcome the spring-back of the steel

As mentioned in another thread in regard to a twisted torque tube between the two SSQA ends, an option is to cut the tube and then weld back together with the loader arms aligned. Alignment could be achieved several ways with one of them being setting the bucket down flat with it and the tractor on a flat concrete slab. A portable band saw, if available, might be a choice for cutting as it would leave a narrow kerf to weld back together.

npalen: it appears that you don't understand what I wrote. I am NOT referring to the bucket attachments. I am referring to the main connection between the two ARMS, commonly a large diameter pipe.

 

[dcarman]

There is always some play in the hydraulic system when there is no pressure. That looks normal to me. What I see is a week loader mount design. That large round tube that bolts the loader to the tractor frame probably torqued a little and a very little twist in it and your loader is no longer level when raised. It will seem straight with no load when the bucket is on the ground but something is bent there. I don't know if there are any reference points to measure to. You could measure from your upper loader pivots in back top to the lower front of the frame on each side to maybe find the bend.

 

[JCoastie]

I had that happen on my LS. Apparently it had something to do with compressing the one cylinder and it didn't bounce back. My dealer said to try raising and lowering the loader all the way up and down into the float position. After 5 times, it was right again.

That was certainly an interesting tid bit. I tried it 20+ times this morning, unfortunately no change.

 

[RancherGuy]

This is what it looks like on a flat surface

Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly what happened to me. See my long post to understand what I had to do to fix the problem. You will not see anything wrong that can be measured, other than how the bucket sits on the floor - no angles that are off, no measurements between pins that are off, etc. The damage is the big blue pipe between that arms that you put your square against. THAT pipe has a very slight longitudinal twist, much like you see a twisted candy cane.

The required correction is to twist the whole FEL in a counter-clockwise direction as you stand looking at the front of the tractor. You can do this by keeping the arms low and using horizontal leverage to create a twisting action on the arms. A practical problem may be to keep the tractor from moving. With the leverage I had, the front tires were planted on the ground and the back of my tractor was sliding sideways. With your tractor size, you may be able to utilize a strong long pole or fence post with a truck/vehicle pulling on the tip. The longer the better and easier the pull will be.

 

[npalen]

npalen: it appears that you don't understand what I wrote. I am NOT referring to the bucket attachments. I am referring to the main connection between the two ARMS, commonly a large diameter pipe.

I understand what you wrote. I was just making reference to the similarity of the previous thread that involved the smaller connection at the SSQA. The "main connection" is much larger than the SSQA connection.

 

[RancherGuy]

Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly what happened to me. See my long post to understand what I had to do to fix the problem. You will not see anything wrong that can be measured, other than how the bucket sits on the floor - no angles that are off, no measurements between pins that are off, etc. The damage is the big blue pipe between that arms that you put your square against. THAT pipe has a very slight longitudinal twist, much like you see a twisted candy cane.

The required correction is to twist the whole FEL in a counter-clockwise direction as you stand looking at the front of the tractor. You can do this by keeping the arms low and using horizontal leverage to create a twisting action on the arms. A practical problem may be to keep the tractor from moving. With the leverage I had, the front tires were planted on the ground and the back of my tractor was sliding sideways. With your tractor size, you may be able to utilize a strong long pole or fence post with a truck/vehicle pulling on the tip.

Another comment to this: if the damage was to the FEL mounting brackets, then the FEL would not be centered with respect to the tractor hood. The picture shows that it is centered, therefore it is not the FEL mounts.

 

[Tx Jim]

To make that bucket level to ground I'd add a pound or 2 of air pressure to tractor LH rear tire.

 

[rScotty]

I like that approach, Jim. It might even work.
Before I read your reply my question to Rancher Guy and the Twisters was this:

Assuming that you Twisters are right and the problem is a longitudinal twist in that large diameter tube..... how else might one level the loader besides using massive leverage to "untwist" the tube.
rScotty

 

[RancherGuy]

This is what it looks like on a flat surface

Thinking about this more, there is an alternative corrective action.

For option 1, I previously described a horizontal action with a long pole/post (or tree).
For option 2, you can use a long pole/post/tree grasped in your grapple. Hang it far out on the right side of the tractor to create a counter-twist action. The longer the pole the better. Lift the bucket/grapple high enough to be at the same level as the FEL mounting pins. If the pole is long enough, you might even be able to get by with your body weight hanging on the end, which makes it easy to measure change when you take your weight off. If you and a friend's weight (politically, a wife is not suggested) is not enough, chain the tip of the pole to a tree and use the arm lift hydraulics to force the arms to twist to the right because the pole tip is stationary and the grapple is lifting. Check your results often to see if there is change. You may have to repeat many times until all is correct.

You are likely to have the left rear tractor tire lift. You'll have to figure a way to keep it planted - maybe weights, maybe tying your ROPS or 3 point to the base of a tree or a big fat fence post.