Question about hydraulics performance on different excavators.

[Hersheyfarm]

I’m good with it!

 

[Jchonline]

No ideal what numbers you are talking about..4200, 2900?
not in cdl territory, well under. You keep saying less capable..I’m quoting kubotas stats. At best you could only say they are equal, but in reality the u48 has more numbers on top of the 040. Please explain.

Well if you look at the 2 pdfs I linked and look at the lift capacity…you will see 4200 Vs 2900.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Lift capacity? Look at your stats again. The KX is 4200, U48 is 2900. Not very close. The U48 is a great machine…I almost bought one over the KX040. However when it came down to it there was no reason To spend more money for a less capable machine for my needs.

https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/kx040.pdf

https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/u48-5-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=b9058eb2_4

So you are into CDL territory for what? Not really any gain. That was my point.

oh man, I just realized what your talking about… those charts. Lol

Those charts aren’t even, you need to look at them closely. The 040 chart starts at 8’ out from machine and the u48 starts at 12’.
Kubota stopped listing the the 8’ on the -5’s. But I saw some literature can’t remember where but the up close lifting capacity of the u48 was like 5200.
Again, look at the charts. The u48 has more lifting capacity on almost all comparable measurements. It is weird dealing with 2 different charts. Confusing right?

 

[Rustyiron]

Supposedly they just split like right now. Who knows why, and all Deere minis will be 100% Deere unless they split with hitachi to go with another manufacturer….like sany. Dont laugh, Deere is about the bottom line.

You know Deere's little tractors are Yanmars, or at least powered by them. They have had a long relationship together. Kinda wonder if they'll use Yanmars minies?

I thought that I heard or read that JD has split up with Hitachi.

 

[Fixastuff]

You know Deere's little tractors are Yanmars, or at least powered by them. They have had a long relationship together. Kinda wonder if they'll use Yanmars minies?

I thought that I heard or read that JD has split up with Hitachi.

In the past the deeres were definitely Hitachi's but recently they announced they were splitting up.

 

[Seven Gables]

I've always heard Airman made the JD mini excavators 50 and smaller

 

[Fixastuff]

Deere & Company, Hitachi to End Joint Venture Agreements

MOLINE, IL (Aug. 19, 2021) – John Deere (NYSE: DE) today announced it has agreed with Hitachi Construction Machinery to end the Deere-Hitachi joint venture manufacturing and marketing agreements.

www.deere.com

When I was shopping mini excavators I had checked out the Deere 17g and then called the Hitachi dealer. He didn't have a zx17u on the lot then asked me if I looked at the 17g yet, I said yes, he said it's the same thing but in orange.....

 

[JimRB]

Useless observations or speculations below.

Last summer I rented I think a Deere 27D. It had a Yanmar engine. The 35D also has a Yanmar engine. Even the 17D has a Yanmar engine listed. I did not look around on the rental unit to find the country of origin or assembly tag. I see Hitachi has mini-exs with Yanmar engines. I guess Yanmar is a popular engine. My little JD870 tractor is made by Yanmar.

I am forgetting the size of the CCA timbers we placed. I think they were 6x8x16'. Kind of exciting spinning 180 degrees if you have the boom out too far. Just like a loader, keep the load low and close to the mini-ex. I can see why some folks might like to use that boom extended a bit moving weight around.

I need to do some french drains around the horse barn. Maybe this year. The little mini-ex I rented seem to work fine digging and moving gravel around. Might be a bit more challenged digging dirt. If I start that project I will let the rental yard tell me what I need.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

I still won’t be surprised if Deere split with hitachi to use someone else cheaper to build small mini’s.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Well if you look at the 2 pdfs I linked and look at the lift capacity…you will see 4200 Vs 2900.

I made it simple for you. U48 out performs kx040 on lifting in every comparable measurements, charts are not equal, you have to pay attention. As I said earlier, I read on some press release that the up close craning is like 5200lb for the u48, compared to the 4200 of the 040. The only place the kx040 outperforms the u48 is 6” in dig depth. The tracks are 1’ longer and wider so much mor stability. 32gpm flow through 3 pumps compared to 24gpm single pump on the 040. The u48 is more machine. Even a longer stick by a few inches. Down side is the angle difference of boom that changes dig depth because of the length of the undercarriage I assume, in which a grinder may fix.

 

[Jchonline]

I made it simple for you. U48 out performs kx040 on lifting in every comparable measurements, charts are not equal, you have to pay attention. As I said earlier, I read on some press release that the up close craning is like 5200lb for the u48, compared to the 4200 of the 040. The only place the kx040 outperforms the u48 is 6” in dig depth. The tracks are 1’ longer and wider so much mor stability. 32gpm flow through 3 pumps compared to 24gpm single pump on the 040. The u48 is more machine. Even a longer stick by a few inches. Down side is the angle difference of boom that changes dig depth because of the length of the undercarriage I assume, in which a grinder may fix.

View attachment 733348View attachment 733349

My mistake, I didn’t realize the 040 started at 8 ft radius and the U48 started at 12. Weird stat manipulation going on there.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

My mistake, I didn’t realize the 040 started at 8 ft radius and the U48 started at 12. Weird stat manipulation going on there.

I didn't either At first. You have a kx040, did you know about the pre-wired light hookups on rear of cab? Incase you want a light back there. 2 rubber grommets. They pop out and there are wires with a rubber boot that pushes into hole. The one on left turns on with light switch, the one on right turns on with beacon switch. Just remove screws for speakers and you have easy access.



I also seal the hvac return and retrofitted a better filter. Kubota sucks with hvac filtration, one of the things they addressed.

 

[rScotty]

Herseyfarm, did you ever get a good explanation as to why the 040 has one pump and the U48 has 3? I don't know myself, but assume it is closed vs open hydraulic systems. Not much point in going past that point since they are all exaggerating.

Do you wonder how it is that both Kubota models and the Takeuchi get more HP out of the same Yanmar engine than that engine is capable of making?

In my experience designing equipment, the answer for the exaggerated hydraulic specs is the same as for the fluid HP and the lifting specs:
Those are ADVERTISING specs, not ENGINEERING specs. They are not meant to be taken literally.

As far as numbers go, the advertising specs are as good as beer and chips for for starting a conversation, but if you need real numbers, we have to first figure out where each one is cheating.
We can do that. It's just part of the game. Specsmanship.

rScotty

 

[Jchonline]

I didn't either At first. You have a kx040, did you know about the pre-wired light hookups on rear of cab? Incase you want a light back there. 2 rubber grommets. They pop out and there are wires with a rubber boot that pushes into hole. The one on left turns on with light switch, the one on right turns on with beacon switch. Just remove screws for speakers and you have easy access.

View attachment 733369

I also seal the hvac return and retrofitted a better filter. Kubota sucks with hvac filtration, one of the things they addressed.
View attachment 733370

Nice thanks for the tips.

 

[Jchonline]

A few more things I noticed. The u48 has the next size up in the bucket quick coupler. So you will need new buckets if you move up...but you would need those anyway if you move to a bigger machine.

Where did you see the U48-5 has 3 different pumps? I haven't run across that yet.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

A few more things I noticed. The u48 has the next size up in the bucket quick coupler. So you will need new buckets if you move up...but you would need those anyway if you move to a bigger machine.

Where did you see the U48-5 has 3 different pumps? I haven't run across that yet.

Yea, i knew that. I have 3 buckets and they are for sale with my machine. If I end up trading it in I’ll keep buckets and sell them separately.
if you go to kubotas page for the u48 and click on competitive comparison it list it as having 3 pumps. Here is a screen shot.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Herseyfarm, did you ever get a good explanation as to why the 040 has one pump and the U48 has 3? I don't know myself, but assume it is closed vs open hydraulic systems. Not much point in going past that point since they are all exaggerating.

Do you wonder how it is that both Kubota models and the Takeuchi get more HP out of the same Yanmar engine than that engine is capable of making?

In my experience designing equipment, the answer for the exaggerated hydraulic specs is the same as for the fluid HP and the lifting specs:
Those are ADVERTISING specs, not ENGINEERING specs. They are not meant to be taken literally.

As far as numbers go, the advertising specs are as good as beer and chips for for starting a conversation, but if you need real numbers, we have to first figure out where each one is cheating.
We can do that. It's just part of the game. Specsmanship.

rScotty

No, not really. kubota is also bad about not publishing the pressure either.

 

[Hersheyfarm]

Here’s something else, I find mistakes on kubota‘s stuff all the time. Look at the breakout force they list for the u48-5. Obviously the low number is a mistake because they publish the higher number in too many places.

 

[Jchonline]

Yea, i knew that. I have 3 buckets and they are for sale with my machine. If I end up trading it in I’ll keep buckets and sell them separately.
if you go to kubotas page for the u48 and click on competitive comparison it list it as having 3 pumps. Here is a screen shot.

Not sure I trust it. That same sheet says the max digging force is 7800 or so LBF but we have already seen it at around 9300 I believe.

Edit: Just saw your post above when I was finishing this.

One would think Kubota would brag about 3 pumps in a machine….but it isnt mentioned in their marketing materials or the dealer video comparisons anywhere I have seen.

 

[4570Man]

Not sure I trust it. That same sheet says the max digging force is 7800 or so LBF but we have already seen it at around 9300 I believe.

Edit: Just saw your post above when I was finishing this.

One would think Kubota would brag about 3 pumps in a machine….but it isnt mentioned in their marketing materials or the dealer video comparisons anywhere I have seen.

My M59 with multiple pumps had the worst hydraulics I’ve ever had on a machine.