Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Canoo signed a contract with Panasonic to supply their batteries. Then I read this from Car and Driver:

‘Canoo said they chose the Panasonic batteries—which will not be the Tesla-specific 4680 format—for their proven reliability.’

Those kids at Tesla need to learn that sharing is caring. I want those honkin’ 4680’s in my Canoo truck. That would alleviate any range anxiety I would have.

You can't even get 4680's in your Cybertruck. It may be years before we see 4680 battery on the market and by then they will be old technology.

 

[3930dave]

You can't even get 4680's in your Cybertruck. It may be years before we see 4680 battery on the market and by then they will be old technology.

...... one of the reasons ^ that EV marketing/tech reminds me of cell-phone marketing/tech. A lot.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

...... one of the reasons ^ that EV marketing/tech reminds me of cell-phone marketing/tech. A lot.

Rgds, D.

Yes both are lithium rechargeable toys or tools depending on ones view and most drivers with a cell phone will one day own an EV.

 

[3930dave]

Yes both are lithium rechargeable toys or tools depending on ones view and most drivers with a cell phone will one day own an EV.

Wasn't going so much for "toy" in that post, but rather from the corporate standpoint: high-volume, fast-turnover money-makers.....

IMO, a significant # of urban young cell-phone owners today won't bother owning 4 wheel ground transport (of any type)..... at best, they'll rent.

Rgds, D.

 

[rontaki]

MSN

www.msn.com

The UK imports the wood / pellets used for energy from other countries, mostly the US and Canada.
Green(back) energy for sure...

 

[Jstpssng]

The UK imports the wood / pellets used for energy from other countries, mostly the US and Canada.
Green(back) energy for sure...

Biomass could arguably be the closest thing to “green” energy you will find... provided that you could get it from stump to end use without the losses involved from harvest, transport to plant, then transmission to the user. There’s no such thing as a perpetual motion machine, yet unlike coal, petroleum, lithium, or many other solutions, you can harvest wood sustainably so that carbon in the trees you remove are offset by those which are growing.

https://rhodeislandwoods.uri.edu/landowner-toolbox/sustainable-harvesting/

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Biomass is a disaster. It pretty much goes along well with this entire thread: mostly marketing hype.

True that. The Boardman fluidized bed coal plant on the Columbia tried to go biomass. They planted thousands of acres of hybrid poplar for fuel, and have recently closed the plant and cleared the poplar plantations. I think the big problem was getting adequate fuel at a profitable price. The plant needed 800 tons a day for full operation.

 

[Cat385B]

You can't even get 4680's in your Cybertruck. It may be years before we see 4680 battery on the market and by then they will be old technology.

Cybertruck? I wouldn’t drive that monstrosity if you paid for it. Bubble truck for me, please.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Cybertruck? I wouldn’t drive that monstrosity if you paid for it. Bubble truck for me, please.
View attachment 719137

If someone gives you one send me a message I'll come pick it up so you're not so embarrassed with being sitting in your driveway. the problem with the canoe is they're not a full scope car company they haven't got their batteries factory going yet.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

It would be interesting to see just what these subsidies are, rather than just stating they exist. I believe that much of it is coal, used to generate electricity for many things... including to power Teslas.

In the USA, about 20% of the subsidies go to coal.

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

 

[Jstpssng]

In the USA, about 20% of the subsidies go to coal.

Fact Sheet | Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Closer Look at Tax Breaks and Societal Costs (2019) | White Papers | EESI

www.eesi.org

Your link actually supports itself. Thank you for posting it.

Here's another from the same era https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/09/23/energy-subsidies-renewables-fossil-fuels/
which indicates that subsidies to fossil fuels in the US are a drop in the bucket compared to that of renewables.

 

[California]

Those aren't subsidies they're entitlements!

 

[DieselBound]

I think that NOW is the time that we ought to be ditching marketing hype and be honest with ourselves. This has nothing to do with EVs. We have to, unless someone can PROVE how we can have infinite growth, come to grips with the underlying driver that our growth model is starting to crumble. I do not believe that a "solution" is going to come from individual companies producing various widgets. I also don't believe that an actual "solution" is going to be coming from govt body: especially not in the context of our current govt+big business model that has cemented itself (neo-liberal economics). I cannot, and will not, dictate any "solution."

Our problem really isn't about fossil fuel usage. It's not about transportation. They are parts of the problem: perpetual growth IS the problem.

Economies of scale are going to present a lot of strain as this equation works in reverse: no one ever asked if economies of scale could ever go negative. As we back away from fossil fuels we'll experience substantial "costs" due to drastic reductions in economies of scale: fossil fuel extraction provides for a LOT more than just fuel. We have to understand this, and brace ourselves (not concoct conspiracy theories and such) for the inevitable consequence. I'll conclude with a statement that "leaders" MUST demonstrate actual leadership, they have to SET THE EXAMPLE: how credible can a "leader" be telling others to conserve when blasting themselves into space?

 

[3930dave]

... how credible can a "leader" be telling others to conserve when blasting themselves into space?

Not to worry..... the billboards going up there will drive the growth !

JK, .

Meaningful leadership ? The last time this requirement was of this scale, was WWII, IMO.

Meaningful Industrial Policy requires long-term vision, and decades of high-level, high-quality leadership. Hard Work, indeed....

A "leader" can make short-term personal gains bypassing the above ^, but there are always consequences....

Shut Down Oil. Flip everyone over to All-Electric. The average citizen has no clue what the technical and economic implications of doing either are. let alone both simultaneously....

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I think that NOW is the time that we ought to be ditching marketing hype and be honest with ourselves. This has nothing to do with EVs. We have to, unless someone can PROVE how we can have infinite growth, come to grips with the underlying driver that our growth model is starting to crumble. I do not believe that a "solution" is going to come from individual companies producing various widgets. I also don't believe that an actual "solution" is going to be coming from govt body: especially not in the context of our current govt+big business model that has cemented itself (neo-liberal economics). I cannot, and will not, dictate any "solution."

Our problem really isn't about fossil fuel usage. It's not about transportation. They are parts of the problem: perpetual growth IS the problem.

Economies of scale are going to present a lot of strain as this equation works in reverse: no one ever asked if economies of scale could ever go negative. As we back away from fossil fuels we'll experience substantial "costs" due to drastic reductions in economies of scale: fossil fuel extraction provides for a LOT more than just fuel. We have to understand this, and brace ourselves (not concoct conspiracy theories and such) for the inevitable consequence. I'll conclude with a statement that "leaders" MUST demonstrate actual leadership, they have to SET THE EXAMPLE: how credible can a "leader" be telling others to conserve when blasting themselves into space?

Are you still going to buy into your narrative after you push crude over two hundred dollars then beyond?

The babyboomers have been giving and giving but now we're taking and taking so now we are short on everything except yak.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

New solid-state battery material is sourced from trees

Now they are coming for our trees.

 

[Jstpssng]

Are you still going to buy into your narrative after you push crude over two hundred dollars then beyond?

The babyboomers have been giving and giving but now we're taking and taking so now we are short on everything except yak.

Yet his comment addresses the elephant in the room. We can switch fuel sources and/or do a myriad of other “feel good” attempts but nobody will admit the real cause; a growing population is putting more and more strain on finite resources.

 

[RoyJackson]

Yet his comment addresses the elephant in the room. We can switch fuel sources and/or do a myriad of other “feel good” attempts but nobody will admit the real cause; a growing population is putting more and more strain on finite resources.

People living longer and global population is growing rapidly. Even China has abandoned their one baby policy (which had been in effect for at least 20 years).
No good solution for this...but I expect Nature will take it's course

 

[Jstpssng]

People living longer and global population is growing rapidly. Even China has abandoned their one baby policy (which had been in effect for at least 20 years).
No good solution for this...but I expect Nature will take it's course

Unfortunately you are right... and we are starting to see that adjustment.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

A Simple Piece of Steel and Wheels Is Holding Up the Global Supply Chain

Hopefully we can find some steel and wheels and get the parts, etc moving again. Sounds like we went on a buy spree last year and gummed up the supply chain.

At least we know the weak link now.

Parts and tire shortages are hitting local farmers hard. With most EV batteries coming out of China this shipping mess is negative for USA EV production and solar panel imports.