Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[SylvainG]

If someone was going to give you an EV parked in your driveway fully paid license tagged etc which EV would you choose today?

Tesla Model S Plaid

I've set the time at the view from the McLaren for two reasons. 1- You see the Tesla pulling away. 2- The sound from the McLaren. The view from the Tesla is, well, soundless lol (well, not counting wind of course)

 

[MossRoad]

 

[SylvainG]

I'm puzzled with they went with Mustang for a SUV like vehicle. I'm sure Mustang die hards must be fuming with that decision.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Liberty

Liberty | E-Z-GO®

Elevate your everyday ride in the 4-passenger Liberty. Premium comfort and style pair with the maintenance-free ELiTE™ Lithium powertrain with Samsung SDI technology.

ezgo.txtsv.com

Awesome cart. Our Ezgo 2007 cart has Regen braking and a safety feature for hills so if it rolled off it couldn't go over 2 MPH. I got it to use to do the kids driver's ed and that worked out extremely well since we live in rural area and we could go 5 miles and turn around and come back without going by more than a couple of houses. Back before I stopped using Roundup I used it a lot for around the place and the church area. Now it's used mainly for hauling hay or sometimes just run it around. It helped me realize how common sense EV ownership was.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I'm puzzled with they went with Mustang for a SUV like vehicle. I'm sure Mustang die hards must be fuming with that decision.

The ICE Mustang is scheduled for deletion.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Tesla Model S Plaid

I've set the time at the view from the McLaren for two reasons. 1- You see the Tesla pulling away. 2- The sound from the McLaren. The view from the Tesla is, well, soundless lol (well, not counting wind of course)

Thanks for sharing that awesome clip. It drives home the point for all that ICE age is on the way out cuz technically they have been superseded.and especially cost wise.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I doubt Ford ever track tested it but it should do better by the 3rd generation. Side by side tracking of F150 Lighting and Cybertruck should be interesting.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/toyota-mirai-845-mile-guinness-world-record/

Toyota have bet the farm on hydrogen fuel cell technology so we will see.

 

[3930dave]

Thanks for sharing that awesome clip. It drives home the point for all that ICE age is on the way out cuz technically they have been superseded.and especially cost wise.

I haven't watched the clip, but I can guess who won.... not a surprise.

I get the tech (believe me), but referencing Plaid vs. McLaren had me chuckling... for peasants like me, that debate is a lot like 2 Wall Street Stockbrockers waiting for a light at a crosswalk, debating which brand of caviar is superior, in front of a homeless guy.......

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The ICE Mustang is scheduled for deletion.

Reminded me to look at timelines..... this might have been up before, and may be slightly out of date......

Growing momentum: Global overview of government targets for phasing out sales of new internal combustion engine vehicles | International Council on Clean Transportation

Time.... can't make more of it, and it will be needed.....

Holiday weekend here. So surge time on the major highways. Stopping at Costco for gasoline after work (next city north of me), can see (our) interstate crawling.....

Obviously, aside from battery tech, much time is still going to be needed for charger/grid build-up. The two small clusters of Superchargers (honest tip of the hat by me, to Elon) near that stretch of highway would need to be scaled by 10 to 100x to begin to address holiday-surge traffic.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I haven't watched the clip, but I can guess who won.... not a surprise.

I get the tech (believe me), but referencing Plaid vs. McLaren had me chuckling... for peasants like me, that debate is a lot like 2 Wall Street Stockbrockers waiting for a light at a crosswalk, debating which brand of caviar is superior, in front of a homeless guy.......

Rgds, D.

You may be surprised but my $13K Nissan Leaf is my Plaid and McLaren rolled into One..

I am introducing my world to the Joy of EVs. Having never truly experienced peer pressure starting around age 4 I realized happiness stems from my thoughts not the thoughts of others.

Personally I don't know another EV owner in my 5 county area. Two years ago when I realized EVs were displacing ICE vehicles in the coming decades I had never touched an EV.

Thanks to the internet I found a few in the $8-16K price range 150-500 miles from my home. After a few days I decided it was time to buy an EV. Using bank lines of credit I got $12K in cash and gassed up our 200K+ miles 2010 F-150 and took off for St Louis 200 miles away. I touched, drove, payed for and had hauled it back home by midnight.

It is not as fast as Tesla Plaid or as loud as a McLaren but I had my first EV. 5 weeks later my battery pack was legally dead.

 

[3930dave]

You may be surprised but my $13K Nissan Leaf is my Plaid and McLaren rolled into One..

Actually, No.

In the Real World, towards the top of my list of People I Know Personally, and Respect a Lot is a friend who lives the following equation way better than most......

Getting It Done = Make a Decision + Take Action

Personal energy + resources needed can scale quickly.... but I work at reminding myself..... It Really is That ^ Simple !

You took sustained Action with your Leaf, have learned a lot, and also spent the time here to edumucate ICE Neanderthal's like me .

I think one of the challenges low-cost EV's face is thermal management of the battery pack. IIRC, the original design of the Leaf was limited/no active thermal management, and I'm taking a wild guess that the Bolt may need improvement too....

Last Bolt comment came from a brief conversation I had about batteries with a guy a work who owns one. His "Hill Mode" (or something similar, a Bolt owner is welcome to correct me....) reference threw me off, so I asked about it...... his explanation was that if you lived at the top of a long runout (live on mountain, work in valley....) it was suggested you invoke that mode, leaving home in the morning to "avoid regenerating too much".

Similar to that Mach E problem in Norway (Ford spun new code for the controller), thermal management is one of the background heavy engineering tasks on EVs that is hard to get right....

EV burnouts get social media attention, but NOT subsequently lighting up the battery pack is the real trick !

Rgds, D.

 

[Grumpycat]

Why would one go from ICE TO EV if it wasn't cheaper?

Only one other good reason: "Looks like fun!"

 

[Grumpycat]

@ 8 years/100k miles : no $ allowance for HV battery replacement ?

Rgds, D.

What allowance do you make to replace engines or transmissions in only 100,000 miles?

 

[Grumpycat]

So what happens if you battery pack is not covered under warranty
and you have to pay out of your pocket in a year or two????

Traction battery is considered emissions equipment therefore Federally warranted 8 years 100,000 miles, or 10 years 150,000 miles in CARB states. 100% replacement, no prorating.

 

[Jstpssng]

What allowance do you make to replace engines or transmissions in only 100,000 miles?

I generally expect an engine to last at least 300,000 miles and a transmission at least 1/2 of that. Then it's time to trade. Rust kills vehicles here-including brakes- long before the running gear wears out.

 

[3930dave]

What allowance do you make to replace engines or transmissions in only 100,000 miles?

My choice of port-fuel injected gas engine and stick transmission - in that case, none. Present-day GDI and lousy automatics that certain manufacturers produce, I'd assign at least 50% of their value at that point.

I get it, EV'ers want to ignore battery replacement cost, esp. when buying new..... treated like cell phone ownership, it's a non-issue.

An EV @ 100k, I'd allow for 50% of the battery cost.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

EV battery health is about the only important EV concern in my view and that concern drops in each new model year.

LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) currently would be my preferred choice for 30 years of ownership. In 3-8 years LFP may not interest me for vehicle usage.

If I own 5 EVs in the next 15 years I never plan to sell one. Tesla's sold new today for private use could be good for 30+ years motor and battery wise.

While Tesla would be my preferred brand I would go for a new BYD car in the net $15K price range with 200+ miles of range as long as Warren Buffett is still a key investor. Currently they produce EV city buses in California. BYD is said to be the skate board under new Toyota line of EVs coming next year.


One is a gambler buying any EV from from an EV OEM with less than 10 years of continued experience.

 

[SylvainG]

I generally expect an engine to last at least 300,000 miles and a transmission at least 1/2 of that. Then it's time to trade. Rust kills vehicles here-including brakes- long before the running gear wears out.

So did I, but it didn't. Lasted only 186000 KM. Oil changes were done at 6000 KM interval like stated in the owner manual. My previous vehicle was a 2002 Honda Odyssey. At about 200,000 KM, had to refurbish the transmission. It wouldn't go sometime into fourth gear (or was it fifth, don't recall how many gears it had). It became worse as time passed so no choice but to go for a $3500 repair. I wanted to keep it longer but a tree had other plans for it two years later.

 

[California]

Last Bolt comment came from a brief conversation I had about batteries with a guy a work who owns one. His "Hill Mode" ... explanation was that if you lived at the top of a long runout (live on mountain, work in valley....) it was suggested you invoke that mode, leaving home in the morning to "avoid regenerating too much".

Bolt 'hill mode' isn't a thermal issue, rather, the driver should expect regenerative braking to work the same under all conditions. But the Bolt's regenerative braking disappears if the battery reaches 100%, as it might going down the mountain. Just when you want that braking assist most.

Hill mode, which is not charging to 100% before starting down the mountain, avoids the loss of that braking feature halfway down the grade.

I looked hard at Bolt when they came out. But the lack of cargo capacity and the uneven cargo floor were deal killers. More recently the battery spontaneous fires are a second reason to avoid Bolt until they get that worked out.