Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Egon]

Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

What’s the cost of maintaining the present road transportation system compared to the cost of a designed public transportation system?

 

[3930dave]

Yep, it will be interesting to see the long-haul EV economics play out, esp. for peasants like me that can't/won't spend on new.....

I had my suspicions, confirmed recently in a small thread I started.... Model A Fords - virtually all parts are still available, short of frames.

Most products today are intended to be short-lived, and I hope that EV's don't drift/are directed hard that direction....

Any modern vehicle can be taken down by just one sensor.... that aside, I see the control system (main boards / software) and the battery as the main life-gating factors with EVs.

I could see a 3rd party company like Dorman picking up production of older control boards.

Battery life. A) Till Empty. B) Till it Dies C) Till it's Out of Production as a product.

Given the specialized chemistry / folded origami nature of proprietary HV batteries, in this ramble, C) concerns me the most....

Low cost transportation..... for gear-head DIY sweat-equity folk, esp. living in the American SW etc..... if you have a bit of luck looking, you may find a 30 y/o American or Japanese vehicle that just needs a bit of TLC, and a few relatively low-cost/still available parts....

Maybe it's just me getting older / out-of-step with today.... but I'd hate to see EVs marketed/evolve into iPhones with wheels, life-cycle wise....

My Saturday coffee 2cents ^ ..... ya get what ya pay for !

Rgds, D.

 

[lman]

Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

What’s the cost of maintaining the present road transportation system compared to the cost of a designed public transportation system?

There is no public transportation here. If there was, would they haul horses?

 

[3930dave]

Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

What’s the cost of maintaining the present road transportation system compared to the cost of a designed public transportation system?

Both systems are expensive. Both can work well, or not....

For the most part, I can't see it as Either / Or though..... rail doesn't go enough places (compared to 100 years, or even 50, ago) to distribute food and other necessary freight all places it's needed.

It might be mostly during the middle of the night in some places, but heavy truck is what moves critical cargo into / out of virtually all city centres.....

Eliminating (esp. urban) roads has appeal in certain circles, but there are practical limits....

Rgds, D.

 

[Grumpycat]

$3 gas?

Regular is $4.39 at the cheapest place Gasbuddy can find, $4.50 to $4.77 for name brands at the freeway offramps. Northern California.

You pay $0.15 to $0.25/kWh in The People's Republik of Kalifornia so 4.5¢ to 7.5¢ for an EV.

In my free state I paid $2.699 for gasoline yesterday.

 

[Grumpycat]

The only maintenance recommended on my Tesla is brake cleaning yearly because they don't get used often enough.

Tesla sells an annual service. Among other things they flush brake fluid every 2 years and change transmission fluid every 4. Battery coolant gets replaced on a schedule too.

My Model S is on its 3rd 12V battery.

 

[Jstpssng]

I’m the one who brought up public transportation. No, it won’t work in a lot of areas but in urban areas could be implemented more than it is. In this area it seems to be mostly utilized by low income people.
The southern tier of Maine as well as parts of NH have become the suburbs of Boston, with people driving back and forth every day.

 

[3930dave]

I’m the one who brought up public transportation. No, it won’t work in a lot of areas but in urban areas could be implemented more than it is. In this area it seems to be mostly utilized by low income people.
The southern tier of Maine as well as parts of NH have become the suburbs of Boston, with people driving back and forth every day.

About 20 years ago, I used to get to Boston on business once in a while. First time - I thought I'd seen traffic, then I flew into Logan and had to get to Peabody.... think again ! Can't imagine what it's like today.

Those type of long-haul commutes today, Yikes ! That's where a Jetson future of hop in EV at home, hit the Work button on the map, and nap or work in a slowly-daisy-chaining line of networked EVs crawling down a low-speed "highway" might seem like the Least Evil option to me....

While certain areas of the world have great high-speed passenger rail systems, unfortunately they are white-rhino rare in Can/USA.

Doesn't have to be exotic to be useful though. Received good advice visting San Fran years back "If you rent a car, do it AFTER you are done sight-seeing and are ready to leave". Did the tourist photo trip (trolley car), but found the normal street buses useful - cheap (way less than $2 back then) gave you something like 2 or 3 hours service on buses. Zip out to do shopping or whatever, get back for a low cost, and no hassle with parking.... nice option to have.

But yes, transit needs to be reliable, clean, safe, and services the areas you need..... not always easy to do, esp. on a budget.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Grumpycat]

Doesn't have to be exotic to be useful though. Received good advice visting San Fran years back "If you rent a car, do it AFTER you are done sight-seeing and are ready to leave". Did the tourist photo trip (trolley car), but found the normal street buses useful - cheap (way less than $2 back then) gave you something like 2 or 3 hours service on buses. Zip out to do shopping or whatever, get back for a low cost, and no hassle with parking.... nice option to have.

The cost of building "public transportation" is outrageous. $1.57 billion to build a 1.7 mile extension with 4 new stations! But don't worry, a ticket will only cost $2.25 per passenger!

Muni Central Subway

The San Francisco Muni Central Subway project added four new stations and better access for communities along the route.

mtc.ca.gov

 

[airbiscuit]

Every other year, we would attend the International Machine Tool Show at McCormick Place in Chicago. Would catch Amtrack in Racine, WI, and ride it to Chicago. We would snooze, look at the scenery, and watch all the congested traffic we were flying past. The fare was worth every penny. Also loved riding the train in Ireland.

 

[Fuddy1952]

"Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

The thing that makes EV practical today is how a $50,000 EV can be driven 300,000 miles for 3¢/mile in energy costs. That works out to a total of $59,000.

A $25,000 ICE getting 25 MPG on $3/gallon gasoline consumes $36,000 of gasoline. Plus a $30 oil change every 5,000 miles is $1800, for total of $62,800.

You left out a key point...a very important one few people consider.
The S&P according to historical records, the average annual return since its inception in 1926 through 2018 is approximately 10%–11%.
So 300,000 miles of driving equates to 20 years if averaging 15,000 m/year.
Instead of that 10%-11% figure let's use 8%.
That example of an $50,000 EV vs $25,000 ICE difference is $25,000.
$25,000 at 8% compounded at 8% is (drum roll please)...$116,523.93.

 

[Jstpssng]

300k miles is about 6 years... it’s not the drive train which gives out though, it’s front end parts, tires, and rusted frames. I wonder, how much range will I sacrifice after putting 10 ply tires on my EV?
Don’t get me wrong, as I’ve stated previously in this thread I can see myself buying one for a second vehicle, when I don’t need 4wd or a pickup. There’s no way I’m paying 50k for any vehicle though, unless it’s a pristine R/T Challenger with a Hemi.

 

[3930dave]

.... after putting 10 ply tires on my EV?

I needed a laugh today......That one had me chuckling.....

Tech marches on..... install non-OE spec 10 plies on Futurama Ride, drive down road, hit first pothole in Hill Country.....

Comm's System auto-dials Mountain Rescue, as EV (or most other future techno-rollers....) calculates that you've driven off a cliff.....

Notwithstanding..... I've told myself to quit joking about ^ such future event-scenarios....

Rgds, D.

 

[California]

You pay $0.15 to $0.25/kWh in The People's Republik of Kalifornia so 4.5¢ to 7.5¢ for an EV.

In my free state I paid $2.699 for gasoline yesterday.

Yeah but you have to live in Alabama.

 

[Jstpssng]

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[SylvainG]

Tesla sells an annual service. Among other things they flush brake fluid every 2 years and change transmission fluid every 4. Battery coolant gets replaced on a schedule too.

My Model S is on its 3rd 12V battery.

For brake, they recommends testing brake fluid for contamination every 2 years and replacing as needed. It's not an automatic flush. For the transmission, that's because you have a S. There's no mention of transmission fluid change every four years for X, Y or model 3. What I read is that fluid could last the life of the vehicle.

Same for battery coolant, yes for the S, no service required for model 3.

 

[MossRoad]

$3 gas?

Regular is $4.39 at the cheapest place Gasbuddy can find, $4.50 to $4.77 for name brands at the freeway offramps. Northern California.

An EV looks better all the time.

Our neighbor in town appears to have replaced his Ford supercab with a a Tesla 3. I'll have to ask him if he bought it.

Neighbor on the other side has a Tesla S, next beyond that a Chevy Bolt. (I know).

I'm tempted...

It's been hovering between $2.98 and $3.19 here for what seems like a couple months now.

 

[3930dave]

Same for battery coolant, yes for the S, no service required for model 3.

If it's a liquid coolant, it may be the coolant has a rated life-span beyond the design life of the 3.

If the coolant actually has an infinite life-span, I'd really like to know what T is using....

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I expect the $15,000 EV plus or minus a few thousand will pick up a lion share of early EV market in the next 3 to 5 years.

 

[Jstpssng]

I expect the $15,000 EV plus or minus a few thousand will pick up a lion share of early EV market in the next 3 to 5 years.

For that price I would consider one.