Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Larry Caldwell]

The electrical grid has to be upgraded anyway. We're perking along at 1.5 million to 2 million new houses a year that have to be hooked up. Old equipment times out and has to be replaced. If we add a vehicular load over the next 30 years or so, it will be moderate expansion of generating capacity, but far from a doubling. As for your personal electric bill, almost every household has the ability to reduce usage. I'm thinking my next water heater will be a heat pump water heater. My electric bill right now is 20% below my 1995 electric bill, despite rate increases, thanks to energy conserving upgrades.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/04%20AEO2021%20Electricity.pdf

 

[goeduck]

I believe everyone is missing my point which is my prediction:
As more people switch to electric the present power grid MUST be upgraded. It has to be whether home or station charging.
This upgrading will have TWO impacts...one on the environment, one on everyone's wallet. The first will be deforestation, installing many more power lines, larger and more sub stations, etc. Who pays for this? We ALL do, so instead of the 10.6 cents/kWh I'm paying now it has to increase. If our average electric bill is $90/month it will double within a few years.
Now people will chime in with "I'm already paying $200/month!" which isn't the point since that will go to $400.
EV proponents have this idea that the manufacturing process (vehicles, batteries, power lines, transformers, solar panels, wind generators, even hydro-electric and nuclear plant facilities) cause zero pollution, zero environmental impact.
Explain where I'm wrong.
Thanks.

I don't think you are wrong. But there sure are a lot of EV ostriches out there. With normal growth adding EV charging has to accelerate expanding the grid. Maybe there is enough capacity right now, but if so, not for long.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I believe everyone is missing my point which is my prediction:
As more people switch to electric the present power grid MUST be upgraded. It has to be whether home or station charging.
This upgrading will have TWO impacts...one on the environment, one on everyone's wallet. The first will be deforestation, installing many more power lines, larger and more sub stations, etc. Who pays for this? We ALL do, so instead of the 10.6 cents/kWh I'm paying now it has to increase. If our average electric bill is $90/month it will double within a few years.
Now people will chime in with "I'm already paying $200/month!" which isn't the point since that will go to $400.
EV proponents have this idea that the manufacturing process (vehicles, batteries, power lines, transformers, solar panels, wind generators, even hydro-electric and nuclear plant facilities) cause zero pollution, zero environmental impact.
Explain where I'm wrong.
Thanks.

My prediction is you are getting close to test driving an EV the way this thread attracts you like a bug zapper attracts a bug.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The electrical grid has to be upgraded anyway. We're perking along at 1.5 million to 2 million new houses a year that have to be hooked up. Old equipment times out and has to be replaced. If we add a vehicular load over the next 30 years or so, it will be moderate expansion of generating capacity, but far from a doubling. As for your personal electric bill, almost every household has the ability to reduce usage. I'm thinking my next water heater will be a heat pump water heater. My electric bill right now is 20% below my 1995 electric bill, despite rate increases, thanks to energy conserving upgrades.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/04%20AEO2021%20Electricity.pdf

Awesome link.

A lot our grid has been rebuilt since the 2009 ice storm. This week I saw new poles aready T'd and scattered which confused me until I realized they were converting the grid on that road from one to three phase.

Some may not realize the decision to go all in on EVs is past tense. This is not a band of ICE vehicles for most of us in rural USA.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Texas Is Finally Taking Up The Fight Against Flaring | OilPrice.com

It looks like Texas is finally taking a hard stance on its oil industry flaring excess gas into the atmosphere, a move that many observers believe is the low hanging fruit in the fight to reduce emissions

oilprice.com

Flaring has bugged me for 63 years.

 

[ruffdog]

Maybe for the future, every household will have to have an ICE, an EV, and a steam powered vehicle.

 

[airbiscuit]

I could see myself with an ICE and an EV at some point. The EV would be the local grocery getter and save miles on the ICE.

 

[Fuddy1952]

My prediction is you are getting close to test driving an EV the way this thread attracts you like a bug zapper attracts a bug.

Well Gale...I gave you a like. To me it is a thought provoking subject that must be looked at from different perspectives. Some day we MAY possibly look at electric...but certain conditions hopefully: I don't want to see the elimination of petroleum.
Hopefully gas & diesel still available at an affordable price for older cars, trucks, tractors, mowers, etc.
I will not purchase an electric if I'm not able to park it in garage or near cars or house for fear of fire.
I don't want towers, windmills, solar, nuclear plants destroying the landscape.
Something with a good warranty at an affordable price for everyday trips that gets 90-100 equivalent mpg, yes I'd consider.
Too many people embrace things just because it's new without really thinking about it.

 

[MossRoad]

I got to drive one of these the other day.

Urban Delivery - Electric Last Mile Solutions

Learn about the innovative, efficient, & reliable EV Urban Delivery vehicles from ELMS - Electric Last Mile Solutions.

electriclastmile.com

I did not like the way it felt when driving. It had plenty of pickup, quite zippy in fact. But it could not coast. I think that's due to the regenerative braking. As long as you kept your foot on the accelerator, it was fine. But as soon as you let off, like cresting a hill, or wanting to approach an intersection, there was a definite feel that someone was applying the brakes when you didn't want the brakes applied. This would be fine I think, for congested city traffic where it's constant stop and go. But anywhere that traffic thins out, I would hate to drive this all day, making deliveries. It feels like you're either accelerating or stopping. No happy medium. You have to keep your foot on the accelerator at all time, even going down hill, or it will slow down.

Fit and finish was fine. The back was a full 8' deep, but less than 48" between the wheel wells. Skids would fit, but plywood wouldn't unless you put them on top of the wheel wells, which would work just fine.

The air conditioning worked great! Don't know how that would affect mileage.

Supposed to be ramping up production here in Mishawaka this quarter.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Well Gale...I gave you a like. To me it is a thought provoking subject that must be looked at from different perspectives. Some day we MAY possibly look at electric...but certain conditions hopefully: I don't want to see the elimination of petroleum.
Hopefully gas & diesel still available at an affordable price for older cars, trucks, tractors, mowers, etc.
I will not purchase an electric if I'm not able to park it in garage or near cars or house for fear of fire.
I don't want towers, windmills, solar, nuclear plants destroying the landscape.
Something with a good warranty at an affordable price for everyday trips that gets 90-100 equivalent mpg, yes I'd consider.
Too many people embrace things just because it's new without really thinking about it.

EVs may work well for the person making six figures and driving 200 miles a day and can charge overnight at home.

EVs becoming a no brainer maybe like 10 years down the road.

 

[Jstpssng]

I could see myself with an ICE and an EV at some point. The EV would be the local grocery getter and save miles on the ICE.

I've long felt the same way. First though they will have to come up with a simpler version; gas, diesel or electric there's no way that I'd pay the prices for a vehicle which are being bandied around here. For 50K I could own a new 3/4 ton with dump and snowplow.
I'm already considering a hybrid Maverick next year, which will allow me to park my Colorado for when I want or need 4WD.
List price on the Maverick is around 20K...

 

[SylvainG]

I could see myself with an ICE and an EV at some point. The EV would be the local grocery getter and save miles on the ICE.

I have an ICE and EV (since sept 10th). I've put last weekend fuel stabilizer in the fuel tank because I don't expect it will empty in the next 6 months. Going to the cottage with my EV today has cost me $1.16. The same trip in my ICE vehicle would have cost me $12.63 in gas alone.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I have an ICE and EV (since sept 10th). I've put last weekend fuel stabilizer in the fuel tank because I don't expect it will empty in the next 6 months. Going to the cottage with my EV today has cost me $1.16. The same trip in my ICE vehicle would have cost me $12.63 in gas alone.

How far is it?

 

[SylvainG]

How far is it?

Usually 100 km but that includes a 10 km gravel road that I don't want to take until I have my PPF (Paint Protection Film) installed next week so I took a longer 123 km road.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Fossil fuel subsidies amount to hundreds of billions of dollars a year – here's how to get rid of them

This would make some glad and some sad.

 

[Grumpycat]

Yet you don't address the point of my post. If this really was about the environment, there would be much more push to get people on board with public transportation. That's why I believe that EVs are merely a transfer of wealth from one group of people to another.

"Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

The thing that makes EV practical today is how a $50,000 EV can be driven 300,000 miles for 3¢/mile in energy costs. That works out to a total of $59,000.

A $25,000 ICE getting 25 MPG on $3/gallon gasoline consumes $36,000 of gasoline. Plus a $30 oil change every 5,000 miles is $1800, for total of $62,800.

 

[California]

A $25,000 ICE getting 25 MPG on $3/gallon gasoline consumes $36,000 of gasoline. ...

$3 gas?

Regular is $4.39 at the cheapest place Gasbuddy can find, $4.50 to $4.77 for name brands at the freeway offramps. Northern California.

An EV looks better all the time.

Our neighbor in town appears to have replaced his Ford supercab with a a Tesla 3. I'll have to ask him if he bought it.

Neighbor on the other side has a Tesla S, next beyond that a Chevy Bolt. (I know).

I'm tempted...

 

[SylvainG]

"Everybody says" public transportation is so great for the environment but the reason only the ignorant push for it is the math doesn't work. The cost per seat mile is enormous. Smart politicians have figured out that public transportation costs a lot for the few votes it will buy.

The thing that makes EV practical today is how a $50,000 EV can be driven 300,000 miles for 3¢/mile in energy costs. That works out to a total of $59,000.

A $25,000 ICE getting 25 MPG on $3/gallon gasoline consumes $36,000 of gasoline. Plus a $30 oil change every 5,000 miles is $1800, for total of $62,800.

And don't forget other maintenance like brakes, other fluids like transmissions, differential, spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter and timing belt (if it's a belt, not a chain). Maintenance chart in an ICE vehicle means you must be at a shop several times a year.

The only maintenance recommended on my Tesla is brake cleaning yearly because they don't get used often enough.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

New High-Performance Solid-State Battery Surprises the Engineers Who Created It

Engineers create a high performance all-solid-state battery with a pure-silicon anode. Engineers created a new type of battery that weaves two promising battery sub-fields into a single battery. The battery uses both a solid-state electrolyte and an all-silicon anode, making it a silicon all-soli

scitechdaily.com

While this is one of those 5 years to never things it is exciting. Over the years I have observed when the consciousness of mankind gets focus of a problem solutions start popping like popcorn.

For 70 years I have been hearing "Murray Kentucky the birth place of Radio" on local radio.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

$3 gas?

Regular is $4.39 at the cheapest place Gasbuddy can find, $4.50 to $4.77 for name brands at the freeway offramps. Northern California.

An EV looks better all the time.

Our neighbor in town appears to have replaced his Ford supercab with a a Tesla 3. I'll have to ask him if he bought it.

Neighbor on the other side has a Tesla S, next beyond that a Chevy Bolt. (I know).

I'm tempted...

EVS are not an option for people that has got to get a set of wheels for $3,000.

EVs are an option for anyone able to buy a new car.

Some shop for food daily because they cannot bring home 2 weeks supply of food at one time due to financial reasons.

Currently EVS cost more the day of the purchase than a ice car but as you can read long-term EVS for many people are already the cheapest lowest cost option. As they say quality only cost once but you pay it up front.

I think in 5 years many people can go for an EV and most everyone in 10 years from now.

I passed the Ford dealership yesterday and noticed his parking lot is probably down by 50% as far as inventory goes which is very unusual for him. More people are going to be waiting 2 to 3 years before buying their next car because of the high prices today which opens up a window to make a decision about EVS two or three years from now.

Car buyers are giving up as chip shortage dwindles new car inventories further

Kelley Blue Book and Cox Automotive found nearly half of car buyers in the market are ready to call it quits and postpone their purchase.

www.cnet.com