My Industrial Cabin Build

[groundcover]

I always run second line back to the well to have a hose bib available, you already have the ditch so why not ! Always comes in handy.

 

[Xfaxman]

Also, i need to install two frost proof yard hydrants. Doing this myself is a pain but it also means I know how to fix it later on if something goes south.

This style is the best frost proof hydrant that I have ever had: Baker Water Systems - Monitor® Magnum Yard Hydrant

The water valve works just like a hydraulic spool valve. And after the hydrant is installed the handle can be rotated to any position desired then held there with the set screw.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I always run second line back to the well to have a hose bib available, you already have the ditch so why not ! Always comes in handy.

You run a second line from the house back to the well? Why would you not install the yard hydrant inline? In my case this is over 200 feet from the house. Trivial if done now during initial install, but why?

 

[Ford850]

Where will your expansion tank and pressure switch be located? Your hydrant will need to be after that.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Tank will be in the house. I have seen them set up on the well line before the tank. Is that no longer acceptable? Was that just a “country solution”.

 

[Ford850]

Maybe without check valves that could work. I haven't see that, but that's not saying much

 

[Xfaxman]

When I installed the cycle stop valve and pressure tank where we lived before moving in 2019, I used an underground box with the hydrant at the well:

The light at the upper left comes on when the pump runs.

 

[gary49]

A nut or any kind of weight on a string works. You can hear very clearly when it hits water. Then just pull it out and measure. I’ll bet it’s not more than 50’ down. 30 gpm is way more than you’ll need or want to buy a pump for ($$$$). On a well that productive, I’d consider setting the pump so there’s 50’ or so of water over it and call it good. Makes it easier and cheaper to install and repair and you’ll never run it dry with a 3/4 hp pump. Drillers Service has the 250# poly in 100’ increments. Just use 1” pipe for both the drop pipe and the underground lateral piping. There are tables that are in the pump catalogs that will tell you what wire size to use for a given horsepower pump up to a max distance. I wouldn’t be concerned so much about using a Grundfos or Goulds pump. Just get one with a Franklin motor. I pulled one out a couple of years ago, an Aermotor, IIRC that had only quit because the torque arrestor had fallen apart and the drop wire chafed through that was I had put in 35 years previously. Client had raised 5 kids, 4 of them daughters in that time, so I’m sure it had pumped a lot of water. The pump in my own well is a Red Jacket and it’s about 25 years old. Both pumps have Franklin motors, although Aermotor now uses a Pentek motor. I’d probably put in a 3/4 hp 10-12gpm pump for your well if it were mine. Cable will probably end up being 10 gauge, you’ll want submersible pump cable down the well, and UF cable in the trench. The threaded opening in your well cap is for conduit, it should be 1” electrical conduit, with a glued on terminal adapter at each end, add a plastic bushing at the bottom where the UF cable enters. If you’re a bit paranoid about losing the pump down the well, buy some pump rope and attach it to the pump, add an eyebolt to the top of the casing to tie it to. Do use a rubber torque arrestor on top of the pump, and add 6-10 cable guards about 10’ apart above that on the drop pipe. I’ve never had any real problems with the cable chafing with that setup. Don’t spread the diameter of the torque arrestor so much that it’s tight in the bore and tighten the hose clamps that hold it firmly, you don’t want it to get stuck down in the well. Good luck! There are a lot of details that matter in doing a good install even though the job is conceptually pretty simple.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Client had raised 5 kids, 4 of them daughters in that time, so I’m sure it had pumped a lot of water. C.

That made me laugh. I’ve raised two daughters and 3 boys and had 4 wives so I know how much water they use. Some of the boys would get in the shower and run a 40 gallon water heater cold.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I was hoping more along the lines of lowering something down. I have a 300 foot tape that I could put a weight on but I’m not sure how I would know when it hit water. I could put a float above the weight I guess.

My driller tied a plastic soda bottle with a little sand in it to a tape measure to find the well head. Mine was only 35ft down... lot's of water in that casing.

 

[Xfaxman]

I always run second line back to the well to have a hose bib available, you already have the ditch so why not ! Always comes in handy.

This is the pressure tank house at the well where we live now:

 

[WoodChuckDad]

This is the pressure tank house at the well where we live now:

View attachment 708011View attachment 708012

In virginia, that tank would freeze.

 

[Xfaxman]

The house is insulated, was built in 2006 and as far as I know the tank has never froze:

The pressure switch is in the well:

I pulled it up for the picture, then pushed it back down where it was.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

In virginia, that tank would freeze.

I just put a padlock on my 300 foot tape. Hit water at 58 feet. So 56 feet below ground.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I just put a padlock on my 300 foot tape. Hit water at 58 feet. So 56 feet below ground.

That's good... Now if you know your well depth, you can calculate your reserve in the actual casing.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I have a 20 yo “new” outdoor hydrant sitting in my shed still uninstalled.

The reason to bring a line back out is to have a shutoff valve on it. I’ve heard some people do install them on the incoming line before the tank.
In the south people also put the pressure tank outside.

I’ve found plumbing supply houses to be lower cost than box stores, but you need to know what you need to ask for.

As I recall, my pump is 1 1/4” at the top, and used a reducer to 1”

My sister had to have a new well drilled next week, theirs been going dry.

 

[Carl_NH]

After reading thru this info and then researching some more online, it’s as clear as mud. The poly lines from lowes are only 160 psi so I need the 250 psi poly line.
I have evolved to the “Buy once, Cry once “ philosophy on things like the pump. The Grundfos and Gould pumps are twice the cost of the Zoeller at Lowes. But I saw some Zoeller on line that were also twice the cost of Lowes, for the same model number pump.
Looking at the Gould and Grundfos pumps online
The questions I am left with are
115 vs 200. Assuming 200 is better
Hp rating
Stages. - multi stage is multiple impeller?
3 inch vs 4 inch.
Gpm.

Back in 2018 when I had it drilled (Feb I believe). I talked to the driller and he said it would be $400 to run the line from well to the house. I don’t know if that was just labor or included the line. I don’t remember anything about the pump being discussed. I’s live to hit the easy button and have someone else donit but I am guessing I would be looking at $1,000 in labor costs and markup.
Also, i need to install two frost proof yard hydrants. Doing this myself is a pain but it also means I know how to fix it later on if something goes south.

I was planning on running the poly line and having it layed out place when the electric trench is dug, so that I can join up to that trench halfway to the house and drop it in the same hole.

Looking at the well report filed with health dept,
Well depth 210 feet
Borehole depth 65 feet
Depth to bedrock 55 feet
Hole size 10 inches 0-65 feet
6 inches 65-210 feet
Casing size 6 1/4 inch from +2 to 65
Material PVC SDR 27.6
Water zones from 130-132. 143-145

Pump test
Static water level 30 feet
Flow rate 30gpm

Drillers log
View attachment 707972

I’ll probably take this info with me to one of the recommended stores here and talk to them to get what I need to do this. Not happening today so I still have time to drive myself crazy with research.
Today I am running some more pex in the house.

Based on static water at 56' a pump set at 185-190' or 20-25' off the bottom should work well. As over time sediment from drilling and with water inflow - sand etc. will settle to the bottom, and your main water seam is at 130-140 depth so you will be pumping on average around 100-120' depth most likely.

Most pumps are 4" diameter, 230VAC, and then you can get 2 Wire pumps (start capacitor and controls in the pump) or three wire pump (with a control box/start capacitors in the house). For serviceability best to go 3 wire with the above ground control box, though 2 wire pumps last a long time too.

As far as pumps, you could get by with a 1/2HP pump - 5 GPM, set at 190' and this will pump 5 GPM or so across the 40-60 PSI pressure and depth range. If you bump up to a 3/4 HP pump you will yield about 7 GPM average - enough two people to shower at once (unless you have one of those multi head showers).

Talking pump life - starts - you want to minimize starts as that's what kills pump motors, so you can put in a decent size tank drawdown of 15 gallons (2 min run time @ 7 GPM) then you can install a cycle stop valve (CSV) later too which will keep the pump running longer as long as there is demand.

Wire size - depending on the run from the house panel to the switch, then to the well head and pump, #12 3 Wire will run a 3/4 HP up to about 450' total (to the pump). A 3/4 HP is around 10-12 start amps and 7 running amps.

As others have said, run UF to the pump head, and sub pump wire in the well. You can read a lot more in the attached Goulds pump manual - it's not an advertisement for Goulds but a general guideline for pump installation wire sizing and more.

Then an example quote today on a system with a 3/4 Goulds pump example and most everything you would need $2500 range based on a pump set at 200' and the well being 200' from the house. Hope this info helps you in your research.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Pretty sure mine is 3/4 hp at 180 ft down.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Working on pex plumbing this weekend. I have a question that I will probably call inspectors office for. Code says I need a hose bib on front and back of house. I am wondering if I can use yard hydrants instead. Do any of y’all run into this?

 

[EddieWalker]

Why don't you want to have a hose bib on the front and back of your house? In my opinion, you want more of these, not less. I have 2 on the front of my house, one on the side, and another on the back. Then I have at least a dozen out in my yard that are attached to wood posts. When I build my attached 3 car garage, I'm going to add another, or two.

I also have hot and cold water run to the wall on my back porch. Eventually I plan on installing an outdoor kitchen. I have a drain line there too, but if I didn't, I'd just run it to the bushes.

I have clients that ran hot water lines to a spicket by their garage door so they can wash their cars with hot water. I've never done this, but they say it's the greatest thing ever.

When running PEX, be sure to use the brass 90 degree drop ear fittings for your nipples, that you attach your valves to. Never use sheetrock screws!!! I prefer Hardie screws. They are super strong and will last forever.

I use these for shower heads, hot and cold water valves in the bathrooms and kitchen, and outdoor spickets around the house. I use them everywhere I want to switch from PEX to half inch threaded pipe. Buy extra, they never go bad and you will find a use for them. It's also easier to return extras then to try and find them if they are sold out.

I NEVER use anything that slides onto PEX for a valve!!!! Ten years from now, you will be so happy that you used threaded pipe for your valves. Nothing compares, and nothing else should be used.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-1-2-in-dia-Brass-PEX-Drop-ear-Elbow-Crimp-Fitting/1000182981

I know you mentioned earlier about a system that you are going to use for connecting your PEX that goes outside the PEX. I've never done that and can't comment on it. What I do use is the copper rings that go over the PEX that you use a special tool to compress. In my opinion, this is ten times better then the stainless steal rings that you clip together over the outside of PEX. The stainless steal clamps do not get as tight and I've had jobs fixing them that caused significant damage to the house because they leaked. It's never a big leak, just a very slow drip that goes undetected for years, which is how long it took to saturate everything to the point mold started growing and the sheetrock starts to crumble. The house I worked on last week was built ten years ago, and I just fixed it.

The copper rings are harder to do, but for something long term, it's night and day better.