Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[grsthegreat]

Let all the wealthy leave the us for a tax haven country, and lets watch the USA fold overnight.

i still cant believe all the people that are so jealous of a successful person that they want all their money. Plain makes me sick. I have alot of money, and i earned every cent. I pay my fair share of taxes. If someone tried to force an 80% tax on me i would head out. So would anyone else.
my wife worked for a very successful inventor from a Scandinavian country. He told her he left his home country due to the crippling tax burden thrown on him. It would happen here also.

 

[Solitary Man]

No because they already pay an unbalanced amount.
The gas tax is the same for everyone, rich or poor.
Expensive new EVs, unaffordable to the poor, are taxpayer subsidized for the wealthy who can afford them.

Taxpayers subsidize corporate welfare, where do you want it to stop?

 

[Solitary Man]

Let all the wealthy leave the us for a tax haven country, and lets watch the USA fold overnight.

i still cant believe all the people that are so jealous of a successful person that they want all their money. Plain makes me sick. I have alot of money, and i earned every cent. I pay my fair share of taxes.

In reality, you probably pay more than your fair share.

 

[Grumpycat]

Just removing a 1,000+ lb battery not easy say nothing about opening up the case.

Tesla Service Centers put the car up on a standard lift then have another lift to roll the old battery out and new in. Not much different from a transmission lift just optimized (and bigger) for the 1400 pound battery.

Swap is a 3 hour job.

Plenty of YouTube videos opening a Tesla battery. And of how the battery is built of independent modules each with a networked BCM. Multiple zones within each module. My Model S is said to have (7100) 18650 cells. Were it not modularized failure of just one cell would bring the car to a halt.

 

[MossRoad]

...
Would you really want to live where success is punished while the poor reap rewards?

No, but I'd like to see people pay a similar percentage of their income in taxes so we'd all have skin in the game. Yes, the flat tax! AHHHHHhhhhhh! No caps on FICA either. But that's income related, not fuel related, which we're discussing here.

Bob makes $35K per year and drives 15,000 miles a year in a car that gets decent gas mileage. He uses about 500 gallons of gas a year.

Bill makes $250K per year and drives 15,000 miles a year in a car that gets the same decent mileage. He uses about 500 gallons of gas a year as well.

They both live in Indiana, where the taxes are about 65 cents per gallon of gas, so both pay about $325 in gas taxes per year.

So:
Bob pays about 0.93% of his annual income in fuel taxes.
Bill pays about 0.13% of his annual income in fuel taxes.

Bob pays a bit over 7 times the amount of his total income in fuel taxes that Bill does.

Also, figure Bob and Bill both pay $1500 a year for fuel at $3 per gallon.
Bob pays 4.29% of his total income for fuel.
Bill pays 0.6% of his total income for fuel.

Sucks to be Bob.

Most of us can understand that we can apply that same example to groceries, utilities, mortgages, car payments, insurance, healthcare, costs associated with children, and even tractors.

When you start looking at things in that manner, you start wondering how everyone can pay their fair share without overcharging lower income people so they don't feel screwed, or penalizing people that have higher income so they don't feel screwed.

How that could be accomplished with cars, metered mileage, and fuel tax is beyond me.

 

[Fixastuff]

I just can't understand "if you have 99% of the wealth you should be paying 99% of the taxes.", no offense intended.

Think about taxes for a bit.
Who benefits the most from tax revenue, the rich or the poor? The poor in general can have free housing (section eight), medical care (Medicaid), food stamps, utilities, education, school lunch and the list goes on and on of free stuff.
The rich have use of roads and that's about it. Most rich buy lots of expensive things paying a lot of taxes, entrepreneurs have employees who also pay taxes. The company or corporation pays taxes. Most wealthy pay sending their kids to private schools. Investment capital gains, dividends and interest is also taxed. The rich may have legitimate write-offs but believe me they pay lots of taxes.
So those who benefit the most from tax revenues pay the least amount of tax or no tax at all.
The rich are already pulling the wagon load of free stuff for the poor. Adding more weight to the wagon isn't the answer as it will eventually break.
Would you really want to live where success is punished while the poor reap rewards?

I'm not saying tax them at 99% just tax them at the same 33% most hard working citizens pay. If a person who makes 100 million a year can't live off of the 77million the have after tax how the heck is someone who make 70k supposed to survive with the 46ish k they have afterwards?

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'm not saying tax them at 99% just tax them at the same 33% most hard working citizens pay. If a person who makes 100 million a year can't live off of the 77million the have after tax how the heck is someone who make 70k supposed to survive with the 46ish k they have afterwards?

Again, re-read what I replied.
What incentive is there to aspire to be wealthy? You see it as a percentage of income rather than dollar amount of benefits. It's all backwards, again the poor pay no tax and reap all the benefits.
Does the person making $100M/year receive $23,000,000 a year in benefits? Absolutely not.
Your percentage of income model punishes success, again making them pay benefits to those less fortunate (physically or mentally disabled, lazy, on substance, bad choices, etc.).
Punish the rich, reward the poor.
It's been tried and doesn't work.

 

[Fixastuff]

Again, re-read what I replied.
What incentive is there to aspire to be wealthy? You see it as a percentage of income rather than dollar amount of benefits. It's all backwards, again the poor pay no tax and reap all the benefits.
Does the person making $100M/year receive $23,000,000 a year in benefits? Absolutely not.
Your percentage of income model punishes success, again making them pay benefits to those less fortunate (physically or mentally disabled, lazy, on substance, bad choices, etc.).
Punish the rich, reward the poor.
It's been tried and doesn't work.

Seems everyone paying the same percentage is as fair as it gets, but even if it isn't my parents taught me life isn't fair. If having 77million isn't a good enough incentive to get rich I'm not sure what is?? Unfortunately in the USA the number one predictor of how wealthy one will be is how wealthy the parents are.

 

[Hay Dude]

Again, re-read what I replied.
What incentive is there to aspire to be wealthy? You see it as a percentage of income rather than dollar amount of benefits. It's all backwards, again the poor pay no tax and reap all the benefits.
Does the person making $100M/year receive $23,000,000 a year in benefits? Absolutely not.
Your percentage of income model punishes success, again making them pay benefits to those less fortunate (physically or mentally disabled, lazy, on substance, bad choices, etc.).
Punish the rich, reward the poor.
It's been tried and doesn't work.

I agree with the points you make, But you can easily see the poor pay the same taxes in many, many other aspects of life as the wealthy. Gas tax, sales tax, sin taxes, etc. The poor pay a disproportionately higher amount to their income.
Don‘t misunderstand me, I don’t want to see the system cheated for laziness, but EV drivers are paying nothing in gas taxes, yet wear out roads just like a ICE car.

 

[cqaigy2]

Pretty much what I have been saying all along.

H2 costs too much to make with electricity when one could charge a battery and drive at least twice as far on the same energy.

H2 is the darling of government because it preserves the "gas station model" which is easy to regulate, tax, and easy to extort funds for re-election campaigns.

It's becoming more common for photovoltaic generation projects to install 2.5 generation to load, mostly because cheaper cells, it gives them more flexibility with load. The flexible load being considered is generating local H2.

 

[goeduck]

No, but I'd like to see people pay a similar percentage of their income in taxes so we'd all have skin in the game. Yes, the flat tax! AHHHHHhhhhhh! No caps on FICA either. But that's income related, not fuel related, which we're discussing here.

Bob makes $35K per year and drives 15,000 miles a year in a car that gets decent gas mileage. He uses about 500 gallons of gas a year.

Bill makes $250K per year and drives 15,000 miles a year in a car that gets the same decent mileage. He uses about 500 gallons of gas a year as well.

They both live in Indiana, where the taxes are about 65 cents per gallon of gas, so both pay about $325 in gas taxes per year.

So:
Bob pays about 0.93% of his annual income in fuel taxes.
Bill pays about 0.13% of his annual income in fuel taxes.

Bob pays a bit over 7 times the amount of his total income in fuel taxes that Bill does.

Also, figure Bob and Bill both pay $1500 a year for fuel at $3 per gallon.
Bob pays 4.29% of his total income for fuel.
Bill pays 0.6% of his total income for fuel.

Sucks to be Bob.

Most of us can understand that we can apply that same example to groceries, utilities, mortgages, car payments, insurance, healthcare, costs associated with children, and even tractors.

When you start looking at things in that manner, you start wondering how everyone can pay their fair share without overcharging lower income people so they don't feel screwed, or penalizing people that have higher income so they don't feel screwed.

How that could be accomplished with cars, metered mileage, and fuel tax is beyond me.

Bill and Bob each drive 15,000 mile a year so tell me again why Bill should pay more to use the roads the same (I think that is your point)? There certainly are other taxes Bill pays, it does not end with his fuel tax.

 

[PuffyC]

Back to battery powered vehicles of today and tomorrow....

Just saw this 'tank turn' video by Rivian. Not sure how useful it would be but it looks cool.

 

[Hay Dude]

Cant wait for my electric RAM5500!
Too bad mine won’t be subsidized

 

[MossRoad]

Bill and Bob each drive 15,000 mile a year so tell me again why Bill should pay more to use the roads the same (I think that is your point)? There certainly are other taxes Bill pays, it does not end with his fuel tax.

My point is not that Bill should pay more road taxes.

My point is lower income people have to pay a much higher percentage of their income for all BASIC needs just to survive than higher income people. Food, clothing, rent/mortgage, utilities... everything.

Life isn't fair. We all know that. How do we make it more fair for all?

 

[Hay Dude]

My point is not that Bill should pay more road taxes.

My point is lower income people have to pay a much higher percentage of their income for all BASIC needs just to survive than higher income people. Food, clothing, rent/mortgage, utilities... everything.

Life isn't fair. We all know that. How do we make it more fair for all?

Consumption taxes, VATs, flat taxes etc should all be explored, but again, rich people driving EVs should not get roads subsidized by taxpayers way below them on the income scale.
IMO, even the poorest should pay a little income tax, to have skin in the game. Paying a “mileage driven” tax sounds better than a per gallon gas tax.
Taxing a corporation making electric cars is like adding another layer of expense to the consumer and the corporation shareholders and owners still make the same money! Lol

 

[goeduck]

Tax the pizza delivery guys per slice.

 

[sd455dan]

Cant wait for my electric RAM5500!
Too bad mine won’t be subsidized

Who knows. by the time RAM gets them fully designed tested out and vetted, maybe there will be a farm credit write off or discount at purchase for business.

Got to say a 5500 RAM electric would be really Cool.

 

[Fuddy1952]

1) capital gains are "unearned income"
2) "Real Question -- when have you EVER seen the Wealthy "pulling the wagon" as you say . . . either metaphorically or in fact?"

Have you ever known or heard of anyone from a poor family or a family who made their children make it on their own? Someone working their way through college and/or starting a business with basically nothing. Never asking for a handout but success by hard work? I certainly have.
1) Then investing money eventually paying capital gains. "Unearned income"??? It didn't grow on trees but income invested. And that same money reinvested growing with taxable gains year after year.
2) Yes, those wealthy are pulling the wagon, again taxed benefiting the poor not them.
I won't get a single "like" in this reply because there's some misconception of hate the rich, or they don't pay enough taxes, or ill gotten gains, or they were born rich, lucky, etc. Most people can't imagine it's possible to become rich on your own.
Getting back to EV vehicle owners paying road tax to me that will take care of itself. As we see more EV vehicles you'll see an increased power demand with a power grid to match demand. It has to... whether hydro, solar, gas, wind, etc. Larger and more towers. That's passed on to consumers.
All taxes always increase and eventually EVs will be taxed for road use same as gas/diesel is today.

 

[Fuddy1952]

^^^reply to #3059^^^

 

[Solitary Man]

I agree with Fuddy. I already support the poor with food stamps, housing vouchers, public transportation, etc. Why do I have to do more than that? No one has worked harder to get out of poverty than me; my journey went from an American horror story to an American success story. God gave me a brain that I didn't and haven't soaked in booze or drugs. That was a choice I made very young; seeing two alcoholic grandfathers that never did anything for their families except lay the groundwork for dysfunctional children that became my parents. The chain has to be broken, and some will not survive; that is the only way to cure poverty.