Branson 3510 (2004) lost hydraulics (three point and front end loader)

[mike0000]

Searching for direction on my Branson hydraulics problem. While moving rock with the front end loader I noticed a lot of oil on the ground. I shut it down and discovered I lost the hydraulic oil level indicator sight glass. i was able to find it, clean things up, reseal and reinstall it. I refilled the hydraulic/transmission fluid to proper level. I went back to work, scooped up a bucket full of rock and proceeded to dump it where I needed it to go, after dumping, the bucket would not curl back up. I checked hyd/fluid which showed low so I added a bit more To top it off. I have no hydraulics, the loaded will not raise or curl, the three point hitch will not raise. i removed the bucket from the front end loader and the grader box from the three point hitch. i drove the tractor back up to my garage, I have no leaks and fluid level is good.
I don’t know much about the hydro system, is it reasonable to think I burnt the pump up? I would appreciate any help on diagnostics for my problem.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[K5lwq]

First thing that comes in my mind when I read this is there is air in the system.

Next is I wonder why the glass popped out and what is preventing it from happening again.

Beyond that we will have to run some test. I doubt the pump is bad but certainly a possibility.

 

[mike0000]

A bit of history on the sight glass, it had been leaking for some time, so about a year ago I got tired of the leak. I pulled it out and used a silicone sealer to reinstall it. Worked ok but started leaking again after a few months. Today when it popped out I decided to go to the local Branson dealer and ask for advice on reinstalling it. One of their mechanics said it needs an o ring, and he would also use a silicone sealer to reinstall it. They did not have an o ring. I keep a “kit” with multiple size o rings and found a replacement. I used that and a 90 minute silicone gasket maker/sealer. After oil refill Tractor was then able to pick up one loader bucket of rock, drive about 50 feet and dump that bucket of rock, then the failure happened, bucket would not curl back up.
I do not know if pressure popped it out, but there is a bit of resistance when pushing it in (even before you get to the o ring), so, it’s seems unlikely, but possible that it just fell out.
I just removed the strainer and it had some metal flake in it, I have never removed it before (I bought the tractor new).
Tractor has about 320hrs. On it, fluid looked Good, I plan to replace the filter then refill w/fluid but I do not expect good results.

 

[K5lwq]

I think you will be surprised. Also double check that the remote valves are in neutral position. If you have a detent valve sometimes we don't realize it is on. That would keep everything else from working.

 

[mike0000]

I appreciate the help, sorry if Im not up on tractor terminology. When you say “double check that remote valves are in neutral position“ are you referencing the loader control lever? I also don’t know what a detent valve is. I’ve owned the tractor since new 2004.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[K5lwq]

I am talking of the rear remote valves If you have them. Detent means the handle will stay in on position till you Physically move it back to neutral. Spring to center valves usually are not a issue.

No apologies needed. We will do what we can to help.

 

[mike0000]

Ok, I understand, I do not have any rear remote valves.
also on the detent, I have the spring to center type loader controls.
Dealer has Saturday hours, I’ll pick up fluid and filter (if they have them in stock) In the morning.

Thank you,
Mike

 

[ericm979]

Sometimes even the spring centered valves can stick in an "on" position.

The fact that the loader worked for a bit then quit would make me lean more towards air in the system than pump failure. You can run it and cycle the cylinders to work the air out. It shouldn't take many cycles.

 

[Leejohn]

My guess is the pump lost it's prime.

 

[mike0000]

Still no hydraulics
I picked up the hyd. Filter and oil.
i installed filter and refilled with fluid, I ran the tractor for ten minutes before testing hydraulics, I’m still getting nothing.
I increased RPMs and set the three point to full lift position along with holding all different positions of the front end loader joystick. I get nothing at all from either. I decided to crack open the feed/return lines to the loader control, neither is under any pressure While engine is running.
Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks
Mike

 

[ptsg]

I recall very vaguely from some older threads on this forum where the members also had some trouble priming the hydraulic pump after changing the hydraulic fluid and filter on this older Bransons, however, I can't remember how they manage to prime it again.

One method that could possibly work, if it's easily accessible, would be to take the inlet hose from the pump and fill it will hydraulic oil and the put it back in.

 

[Fixastuff]

Check the rubber boot/hose on the pump, they often have small cracks that are hard to see but allow the pump to suck air from outside instead of pulling in hydraulic fluid. On a Branson of that age I would expect it to be cracked if it hasn't been replaced before.

 

[mike0000]

I used my shop vac. To blow pressure onto the fill port, didn’t help. I’m going to pull the seat and covers to allow access to the pump, I think.
Mike

 

[ptsg]

Both pumps are mounted on the engine, on the left side.

There is a rubber manifold the connects both pumps inlet side to the suction pump coming from the transmission housing. This is the rubber part that Fixastuff mentioned that's is, indeed, prone to cracking.

I believe my tractor uses the same engine as yours, so the pump setup might be similar. Here is how it looks on mine, with both pumps visible under the alternator.

 

[mike0000]

I’m wrong about pump location, it’s at the engine. I’m going to try to prime it w/oil.

Mike

 

[mike0000]

Thanks Ptsg, I located it

 

[Fixastuff]

I used my shop vac. To blow pressure onto the fill port, didn’t help. I’m going to pull the seat and covers to allow access to the pump, I think.
Mike

I’m wrong about pump location, it’s at the engine. I’m going to try to prime it w/oil.

Mike

I doubt your shop vacuum makes much pressure....check around the hose clamps and give the hose a squeeze so look for cracks. The cracked ones I've found don't leak fluid but do allow air in, so don't take a lack of a leak as a sign that they're good.

 

[YanmarFever]

You might try filling the hydraulic filter with some oil next time you have it off.
I do it when I change my hyd oil.
I believe you have an air lock in the hyd system.

 

[K5lwq]

Hopefully you can prime it. While you are working on it, check the vent tube on the transmission case. If it is clogged from a dirt dauber or something it could explain the site glass blowing out.

 

[mike0000]

I pulled the 90 degree rubber Hose (suction side)of the pump, hose is in good condition. The top of the pump has a 90 made Of aluminum it connects to the 90 made of rubber.
Removing the aluminum one showed that the pump was full of oil. Also oil was in metal pipe that the rubber 90 attaches to ( coming from the filter.
there would have been a small area that had air in it between the two 90’s. I reattached the two 90’s then rotated the aluminum one (left that hose clamp loose) and filled with oil.
I then rotated it (alum. 90) and reattached to the top of the pump (it has an o ring and is attached w/3 bolts.
started the tractor up and still no hydraulics.
Filter position is horizontal so filling w/oil isnt an option.

Mike