Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Frankenkubota]

I wonder how the drought situation in the west (especially in areas dependent on hydro power) will affect EV implementation. Lower levels behind the hydro dams=less output.
No one's building any new coal or nuke plants, wind and solar can only provide so much.

While properly equipped coal plants can be fairly clean, you've got to look at the big picture. Mining of it is anything but.

I wouldn't call myself a naysayer, but I do question a lot of the hype on EVs. The gov't is kind of forcing automakers towards EVs with overly strict fuel economy/emissions regulations. Personally, I see EVs having a place (commuter/city cars), but I also see it remaining a niche market for quite some time to come, I definitely don't expect them to be mainstream in my lifetime.

I haven't read every single post in this thread, but what about as these vehicles get older? Let's for argument's sake that the batteries will be good for 8 years. They're quite expensive, and are likely to remain so. That's gonna put a crimp in desirability for used vehicles, and not everyone can afford to buy new.
Also, the technology is changing quite rapidly. How backward-compatible are new batteries (or for that matter the electronics that control the car) with old vehicles? Are dealers (sounds like independent mechanics are being shut out of all this) going to keep a large, pricey inventory on hand for 10+ year old cars?

Pointless virtue signaling.

MarketWatch: Driving Electric Cars Is ‘Pointless Virtue Signaling’

Efforts to rein in global warming by eating no meat or driving electric cars are completely ineffective, states a sobering essay.

www.breitbart.com

I have not watched in years but....South Park did an episode on the Prius I think set in San Francisco.

They called it the pious?

 

[PuffyC]

If these electric trucks are the planet saving miracle they are touted to be, you’d think there would be people competing to give them capital or low interest loans to build them.

There are, and there were, but these investors aren't stupid. You can be in the right industry with a bad business plan and people will eventually figure it out. If having a startup fail was indication of a failed market we'd still be banging rocks together to cook our dinner.

Pointless virtue signaling.

MarketWatch: Driving Electric Cars Is ‘Pointless Virtue Signaling’

Efforts to rein in global warming by eating no meat or driving electric cars are completely ineffective, states a sobering essay.

www.breitbart.com

If you think Bjorn is on to something you should check out the part of his essay that Breitbart left out for some odd reason. You can read it here but he concludes by saying:

"The one individual action that citizens could take that would make a difference would be to demand a vast increase in spending on green-energy research and development, so that these energy sources eventually become cheap enough to outcompete fossil fuels. That is the real way to help fight climate change."

 

[Hay Dude]

"The one individual action that citizens could take that would make a difference would be to demand a vast increase in spending on green-energy research and development, so that these energy sources eventually become cheap enough to outcompete fossil fuels. That is the real way to help fight climate change."

I think where a lot of people disagree with that statement is when government tips the scales by forcing changes on us through regulations. There are as many scientists that say man made global warming IS NOT true as say it IS true.
Why make all these changes, if global warming is just a natural cycle the earth has been going through for millions of years?
Even if automobile exhaust contributes a minuscule amount, is it really worth putting out trillions of dollars, which could collapse entire nation‘s economies, create chaos and world instability on a macro level based on a theory which may or may not be true?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Hyundai Ioniq 5 Range Tested In The Worst Conditions.

Well I know nothing about this brand but for somebody thinking about buying a EV in the next 5 years this is actually a good article to start with to better understand EVS. The advertisement is misleading from almost anything but it applies to ev's as well and the range is the big thing many people get thrown off on if they're just reading the sellers ads.

 

[fried1765]

Global warming is only one of the reasons to quit burning fossil fuels. Ocean acidification is another. We have 7.9 billion people to feed, and if the world fisheries collapse a lot of them are going to get hungry.

A unilateral global warming fix is simply feel good stuff!
When India, and China act to participate in a fix, there might be meaningful improvements.
China is building one coal fired electric plant per week,.... while the USA is busy choking down 25HP+ tractors.
Pure childhood (think Greta Thunberg) fantasy!

 

[Hay Dude]

The grease burners are headed for the scrap yard. I'm sure that makes the fogeys feel insecure, but they will get over it. It was the same with computers 30 years ago, with the early adopters having fun and the vast majority standing around with drool running out of their mouths. Everybody knows the plug-in hybrids are a stopgap - too many parts - but they are better around town vehicles than any ICE car.

Grease burners? Man, you must be living somewhere strange. We burn gas or diesel over here.
Just don’t complain when products delivered, farmed, logged, or manufactured arent there anymore. Maybe some people are fine living with their electric car, but products still have to be moved for civilizations to exist.
You think this theory of global warming only applies to cars? Lol... Your climate change science hero’s want everything changed to their “standards“ based on theories that have just as many qualified, intelligent doubters as supporters. Why aren’t the doubters voices being heard?
We can’t even get nuclear power plants built cause some minnow or frog might be impacted, but take all ICE cars away from people? All that does is force poor people to walk, ride bikes, take violent subways and takes away the freedom and upward mobility.
More benefits for the privileged class, while the working man suffers.
We need better, more accurate science. Not the junk science we got like when Covid hit.

 

[3930dave]

Needs.... what are the Needs.....

Britain is getting Out in Front, by banning sales of ICE engines not that many years from now.

If you Need to clean up the air in London, UK, maybe this is the right move. If you are a Vet(erinarian) in the north of Scotland, and Need to make rounds in the dead of Winter at all hours to keep local farmers potentially solvent, maybe not so much.

The acid-test for me is when the UK flips ALL of their EMS vehicles to ALL electric...... I strongly suspect that won't be the same time as the public cutoff.

But.... back to Needs. Air has cleaned up noticeably with the lack of global passenger air-travel due to Covid. Why do we Need to go back to non-medical passenger air-travel ?

Same for cruise-ships. One cruise ship trip will burn more fuel than I will, driving a big-block p/u the rest of my life. Why do we Need cruise ships ?

Why do we Need missions to Mars - how about some honesty about what one of those launches dumps into the air ?

Why do we Need drive-thru's ? How about some honesty about how much fuel gets burned up in those every hour ?

What Green Need are we addressing by flooding the planet with EVs, when meaningful Lithium battery recycling doesn't exist ?

^..... Some of why some of us get a little Bent, about somebody potentially deciding what our Needs are......

Winter is the End Limit for Transportation here....... One Winter I did a 600km drive (one way) after a massive ice-storm, to take a generator to my sister.

Power out, wide-scale. I had enough fuel with me, to make the drive there and back. No electric vehicle exists (and, maybe never will, in my lifetime) that would have met that Need.

Needs Must..... London UK used plenty of electric vehicles during WWII.

Right Tool for the Job...... I own a big-block diesel, and a hybrid, and one day will likely have an EV for local use.

Being pro-choice about Transportation does not 100% correlate to being anti-technology.

Rgds, D.

 

[Hay Dude]

Needs.... what are the Needs.....

Britain is getting Out in Front, by banning sales of ICE engines not that many years from now.

If you Need to clean up the air in London, UK, maybe this is the right move. If you are a Vet(erinarian) in the north of Scotland, and Need to make rounds in the dead of Winter at all hours to keep local farmers potentially solvent, maybe not so much.

The acid-test for me is when the UK flips ALL of their EMS vehicles to ALL electric...... I strongly suspect that won't be the same time as the public cutoff.

But.... back to Needs. Air has cleaned up noticeably with the lack of global passenger air-travel due to Covid. Why do we Need to go back to non-medical passenger air-travel ?

Same for cruise-ships. One cruise ship trip will burn more fuel than I will, driving a big-block p/u the rest of my life. Why do we Need cruise ships ?

Why do we Need missions to Mars - how about some honesty about what one of those launches dumps into the air ?

Why do we Need drive-thru's ? How about some honesty about how much fuel gets burned up in those every hour ?

What Green Need are we addressing by flooding the planet with EVs, when meaningful Lithium battery recycling doesn't exist ?

^..... Some of why some of us get a little Bent, about somebody potentially deciding what our Needs are......

Winter is the End Limit for Transportation here....... One Winter I did a 600km drive (one way) after a massive ice-storm, to take a generator to my sister.

Power out, wide-scale. I had enough fuel with me, to make the drive there and back. No electric vehicle exists (and, maybe never will, in my lifetime) that would have met that Need.

Needs Must..... London UK used plenty of electric vehicles during WWII.

Right Tool for the Job...... I own a big-block diesel, and a hybrid, and one day will likely have an EV for local use.

Being pro-choice about Transportation does not equate to being anti-technology.

Rgds, D.

Airlines, cruise ship companies and Mcdonalds are big businesses. Those in charge don’t want to hurt them.
No, this disputable change will only hurt the poor and the working class. Coastal elites can afford several electric cars, but try telling a single parent trying to get to work in a $1500 car, he/she has to turn it in on an electric car, or ride a bike/walk.

 

[3930dave]

Airlines, cruise ship companies and Mcdonalds are big businesses. Those in charge don’t want to hurt them.
No, this disputable change will only hurt the poor and the working class. Coastal elites can afford several electric cars, but try telling a single parent trying to get to work in a $1500 car, he/she has to turn it in on an electric car.

With you there, 100%.

We both know what the (unspoken, but real) answer From On High is:

Sucks to Be You....

Rgds, D.

 

[Hay Dude]

With you there, 100%.

We both know what the (unspoken, but real) answer From On High is:

Sucks to Be You....

Rgds, D.

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind owning EVs. Even without the debatable impacts on the environment you eloquently pointed out, I see their appeal. I am doing ok and although it’ll take a bite out of my wealth, I can probably swing it.
Its the people that can’t afford this, the poor, the young just getting started out, the forgotten people I feel for.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

A unilateral global warming fix is simply feel good stuff!
When India, and China act to participate in a fix, there might be meaningful improvements.
China is building one coal fired electric plant per week,.... while the USA is busy choking down 25HP+ tractors.
Pure childhood (Greta Thunberg) fantasy!

You have to start somewhere...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Monday I drove 200 miles to look at my first EV and got home with it at 11pm that night. It is a 2016 Nissan Leaf SL. I wanted the 4 camera system for parking lots since I have no head rotation due to the Ankylosing Spondylitis for 40 years. Now I can see curbs, lines, etc on each side plus front and rear position of the car. The regen braking is awesome because it is like pouring gas into the tank instead of using the brakes. I am not going back to the old way if I can help it after putting my money where my mouth was.

The link below may be behind a pay wall for some because I got the message I had one free article left. I think like a few are free each month. We are so far behind China and Europe when it comes to EV's.

China Charges Ahead of U.S. in Building Pumps for Electric Cars

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

This from page 9. I agree EVS are hard to buy if you don't have money but that is true for buying a new gas car as well.

Our 2016 Leaf SL came from a Nissan dealership. They had it priced at retail book and I believe it might have been $18, 000. Since I was on my way to look at an older leaf I had 12,000 in cash on me when I decided to go to the Nissan dealership. I like the car and it had Seriously degraded battery and I laid the $12,000 on the salesman desk. About 20 minutes later the salesman came back and said $13,800 was as low as they would go but I could pay the rest by credit card. The salesperson assured me I would be in line for a new battery from Nissan under warranty very soon so I went for the deal.

5 Weeks later the battery health dropped below 65% triggering the warranty claim. In the meantime Nissan had started replacing the 107 mi range battery with 150 mi range battery. Effectively that meant I had 150 mi range 2020 EV for $14K with 25K miles.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Do you have your reservation for the Lighting?

No... I called my dealer about that; according to him few of these will be seen till end of 2022 or 23, I'm not waiting that long for a new truck.

 

[aczlan]

Meh. Mail delivery carriers average 35 miles/day. There is no issue with "battery density" or charge time. This is well within caveman flooded lead-acid battery territory.

Researching data to back up the above I find this which says only 18 miles/day, 5288/year: Pushing the Envelope: The USPS Long Life Vehicle - Great Business Schools

I remember 40+ years ago when the USPS was auctioning "old" Jeep mail trucks prior to the LLV that very few had more than 18,000 miles.

A mail vehicle could also be set up with regenerative braking which would be a perfect use of an electric vehicle.
Even if they have a 75 mile range, they shouldn't have any problem handling a 30 to 40 mile route.

Aaron Z

 

[Gale Hawkins]

No... I called my dealer about that; according to him few of these will be seen till end of 2022 or 23, I'm not waiting that long for a new truck.

That is interesting information and those dates makes sense based on what I'm reading. I expect the Ford dealerships find the release information a distraction.

 

[aczlan]

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind owning EVs. Even without the debatable impacts on the environment you eloquently pointed out, I see their appeal. I am doing ok and although it’ll take a bite out of my wealth, I can probably swing it.
Its the people that can’t afford this, the poor, the young just getting started out, the forgotten people I feel for.

I wouldn't mind owning one either, but I need to be able to get to work at any hour of the day or night, even if it's snowing like crazy, so AWD is on my "must have" list.
I also need to be able to seat seven so that I can take kids plus a friend or cousin without having to meet my wife somewhere in trade cars.
Those two requirements knock out pretty much every electric vehicle out there and most of the hybrids.

Aaron Z

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I wouldn't mind owning one either, but I need to be able to get to work at any hour of the day or night, even if it's snowing like crazy, so AWD is on my "must have" list.
I also need to be able to seat seven so that I can take kids plus a friend or cousin without having to meet my wife somewhere in trade cars.
Those two requirements knock out pretty much every electric vehicle out there and most of the hybrids.

Aaron Z

Sounds like Elon Musk was thinking of you when he built the seven-seater model Y.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Grease burners? Man, you must be living somewhere strange. We burn gas or diesel over here.
Just don’t complain when products delivered, farmed, logged, or manufactured arent there anymore. Maybe some people are fine living with their electric car, but products still have to be moved for civilizations to exist.
You think this theory of global warming only applies to cars? Lol... Your climate change science hero’s want everything changed to their “standards“ based on theories that have just as many qualified, intelligent doubters as supporters. Why aren’t the doubters voices being heard?
We can’t even get nuclear power plants built cause some minnow or frog might be impacted, but take all ICE cars away from people? All that does is force poor people to walk, ride bikes, take violent subways and takes away the freedom and upward mobility.
More benefits for the privileged class, while the working man suffers.
We need better, more accurate science. Not the junk science we got like when Covid hit.

Your so-called "doubters" are just in denial. Anthropogenic Global Warming is established fact, and the proof is simple, while the effects are measurable. They are so terrified by the necessity to change their habits that they make up all sorts of ridiculous scenarios.

When in doubt,
Run about,
Scream and shout.

Imagine that nobody makes any gassers after 2035. The typical car stays on the road for at least a decade, so you will be able to drive your Camaro for at least another quarter century. As much as the "climate change heroes" might like it, batteries will never be practical for heavy hauling, so your feller-buncher and your 400 hp tractor will still run on diesel, though it might be bio diesel. I suspect long haul shipping will go back onto rail where it belongs. Railroads are easy to electrify. Most of the world has done it. The only diesel train I rode on in Europe was a one car diesel trolley on a spur line to Bastogne.

The Simple Proof of Man-Made Global Warming

The two most basic Smoking Guns proving that carbon from fossil fuels is warming the Earth.

skeptoid.com

 

[fried1765]

You have to start somewhere...

We started years ago, and China & India have been quickly following?
Have another glass of global warming Kool-Aid!

 

[MossRoad]

I wouldn't mind owning one either, but I need to be able to get to work at any hour of the day or night, even if it's snowing like crazy, so AWD is on my "must have" list.
I also need to be able to seat seven so that I can take kids plus a friend or cousin without having to meet my wife somewhere in trade cars.
Those two requirements knock out pretty much every electric vehicle out there and most of the hybrids.

Aaron Z

That passenger capability used to be an issue for us as well. Now that the kids are grown and rarely together anymore, and my father in-law has passed, the most we usually have is 5 and sometimes 6. 5 comfortably means bigger vehicle. 6 means Suburban stays.