Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Oaktree]

Charging needs are not really dependent on battery size. We have 2 data points from published articles:

1) 80A at 240V places 30 miles of range in the battery per hour.

2) 150kW DC charger will put 54 miles of range in the battery in 10 minutes. Another said 200 miles in 41 minutes which I find even more amazing as the rate could not have tapered much as the battery SOC increased.

I'm confused. Is the charging mechanism for EV batteries somehow different than charging a regular battery? Doesn't charging at these high rates damage the battery?

Seems like using one of these super quick chargers would be like putting a 540 attachment on a 1000rpm PTO.

 

[Grumpycat]

I'm confused. Is the charging mechanism for EV batteries somehow different than charging a regular battery? Doesn't charging at these high rates damage the battery?

Seems like using one of these super quick chargers would be like putting a 540 attachment on a 1000rpm PTO.

Hitting a 140kWh battery with 20kW is 0.15C in battery technospeak. 1.0C is considered a fast charge.

150kW on a 140kWh battery is getting fast so when such is undertaken the battery is very closely monitored. It will not sustain 150kW to the end.

This is a chart I bookmarked about 7 years ago of how various Teslas slow on Superchargers as the battery fills.

https://imgur.com/tcQNNPF

 

[Grumpycat]

I have a south facing rock slope about 100 x 400 that would be perfect for a solar installation. I don't know if I could sell the power. I'm the last house on the power line - it stops at my mailbox - and I suspect it's only a 5kv. primary.

Would not matter where you are on the grid.

As to what you could sell to the utility or what they will pay, you have to ask them. TVA's sub-utilities are contractually forbidden to purchase power from anyone else. So you buy power from the local utility but the grid-tie sale of power is a separate contract (and utility meter) with TVA no matter it is the same wire as feeds your farm.

 

[Grumpycat]

BYD may be the best EV maker in the world now and later.

Yeah, I first heard that on Prius lists 15 years ago.

Part of the claim being made was under the "superior Chinese legal system" BYD was not subject to the Large Cell NiMH patent held by Cobasys/Chevron.

 

[lman]

It seems nobody is thinking about the lack of competition of electricity pricing. If you have an electric car and charge it at home, you are stuck with one price and no option to shop for the best price as you can do now for gas. Electricity pricing can go up with no competition. Around here we occasionally have gas price wars and I can fill up a 55 gallon barrel at a good price. Those days will be gone.

That's the biggest apprehension I have about an electric car.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It seems nobody is thinking about the lack of competition of electricity pricing. If you have an electric car and charge it at home, you are stuck with one price and no option to shop for the best price as you can do now for gas. Electricity pricing can go up with no competition. Around here we occasionally have gas price wars and I can fill up a 55 gallon barrel at a good price. Those days will be gone.

That's the biggest apprehension I have about an electric car.

How many different bids do you from area utility companies to provide AC power to the place where you live?

 

[lman]

How many different bids do you from area utility companies to provide AC power to the place where you live?

As far as I know, I only have one option, my local rural electric co-op. I suppose if I lived in town, there might be other options.

 

[Oaktree]

How many different bids do you from area utility companies to provide AC power to the place where you live?

This is something that I'm sure varies considerably from state to state. I'll get letters in the mail from "independent" power providers claiming to save me money on my electric bill. However, when I look at my bill, over half of the charges are "delivery costs" from the utility...these won't change if I go with another provider. Switching providers might save me 50¢ /mo...hardly worth it. Maybe if I used a lot more electricity it might be different, but I don't.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

As far as I know, I only have one option, my local rural electric co-op. I suppose if I lived in town, there might be other options.

Awesome so your biggest EV apprehension has been dissolved.

It was Fall 2019 right here on TBN when it hit me that the EV age had arrived and was here to stay until it's replacement arrives.

I pulled together some cash and next day was going to Memphis Tennessee to look at 2 Nissan Leafs but late that night I found one in IL and one MO at Nissan dealerships. Early the next morning I took off for St. Louis in the PU and arrived back home by midnight pulling a 2016 Nissan Leaf SL with a very damaged battery pack so I could start the steep EV learning curve since my brain is getting slower.

 

[lman]

Awesome so your biggest EV apprehension has been dissolved.

It was Fall 2019 right here on TBN when it hit me that the EV age had arrived and was here to stay until it's replacement arrives.

I pulled together some cash and next day was going to Memphis Tennessee to look at 2 Nissan Leafs but late that night I found one in IL and one MO at Nissan dealerships. Early the next morning I took off for St. Louis in the PU and arrived back home by midnight pulling a 2016 Nissan Leaf SL with a very damaged battery pack so I could start the steep EV learning curve since my brain is getting slower.

Still apprehensive since there is no free market for electricity and I don't like being without choices as I have for fuel now.
I don't know how you concluded my apprehension was dissolved since that concern has not been resolved. I guess you must be one of those conclusion jumpers.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Still apprehensive since there is no free market for electricity and I don't like being without choices as I have for fuel now.
I don't know how you concluded my apprehension was dissolved since that concern has not been resolved. I guess you must be one of those conclusion jumpers.

You don't seem apprehensive if you're still on the grid for lighting. An EV is just another electrical appliance that can cost 50% less to power than it would cost at the gas pump.

 

[lman]

Last year when fuel prices were good, before our new leader was in the picture, it was cheaper to drive my hybrid suv that gets 38 mpg. Fuel prices generally go up and down, however I've never seen the price of electricity come down. In 3 years policies could shift back to promoting energy independence and it could again be cheaper to drive a gas powered car. We can only hope.

 

[3930dave]

You don't seem apprehensive if you're still on the grid for lighting. An EV is just another electrical appliance that can cost 50% less to power than it would cost at the gas pump.

Not too may viable options (other than being off-grid, my personal favourite...) for residential lighting.

Enjoy the cost savings, as they likely won't last. Whether it's the extra charger licensing, "safety" inspections etc that have already cropped up here, that is going to change too.

Simple #'s. Province, State, Country..... there are few jurisdictions that are well balanced enough (I'm talking financially) to walk away from even 10% of the billions they haul down in fuel taxes.

Things change..... seemingly quicker as I get older. IIRC, even Elon has mused openly about killing off Free Supercharging.

Enjoy this moment in time for what it is....

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Not too may viable options (other than being off-grid, my personal favourite...) for residential lighting.

Enjoy the cost savings, as they likely won't last. Whether it's the extra charger licensing, "safety" inspections etc that have already cropped up here, that is going to change too.

Simple #'s. Province, State, Country..... there are few jurisdictions that are well balanced enough (I'm talking financially) to walk away from even 10% of the billions they haul down in fuel taxes.

Things change..... seemingly quicker as I get older. IIRC, even Elon has mused openly about killing off Free Supercharging.

Enjoy this moment in time for what it is....

Rgds, D.

I expect the marketing objective of the Super Chargers to drive sales are no longer critical but may help boost end of quarter sales from time to time. Currently there is a one stall Supercharger 60 mile from my house. I don't use fast chargers since Nissan put a new 40 kWh battery pack in our 2016 Leaf SL to limit heat damage Leafs do not have active battery cooling. By charging at home I can better manage the battery pack temperature. Fast driving can really heat up our battery pack. I can discharge a full battery in two hours but charging at the max rate it will take about 5 or 6 hours to fully recharge. To get max range the top speed is said to be 22 MPH. Elon Musk stated 18 MPH for max Tesla battery range.

 

[3930dave]

To get max range the top speed is said to be 22 MPH. Elon Musk stated 18 MPH for max Tesla battery range.

Holiday Weekend here. Yesterday, I saw much more than the normal amount of Teslas at the bank of Superchargers near where I work. People likely will use them to travel longer than normal distances. Then, there's the free charging that some qualify for. Either way, his Build it and They Will Come move with Superchargers was a good and needed one, IMO.

Those ^ #'s you just posted are very interesting. Directly relevant if you are doing cab duty in a Downtown core, but other than that, if they were highly emphasized it would only add to people's Range Anxiety when evaluating vehicles.

But, I may have just missed those datapoints vs. Range, as I can't say I've gone looking for that data...

Rgds, D.

 

[dragoneggs]

Sounds like grocery getter pickups for now vs long trip towing vehicles. Nothing wrong with getting groceries.

My F150 is handy for trips to Costco!

 

[dragoneggs]

I have really enjoyed watching this guys DIY Solar videos. Impressive young man if you read and learn about his life story.

 

[3930dave]

While killing time today, waiting for something else, I saw a Canuck news clip on EVs.

Hadn't seen this one before; posting in case I'm not the only one...

The Lion Electric Co. | Electric School Bus

Lion. Producing school buses in Quebec, and have been selling well enough they are planning a big jump in USA production.

School bus routes makes sense. I'd like to see the Winter operational data, but being Canucks, kids should be wearing ski-doo suits 8 mos/yr anyway

Looks like they are building trucks too, but the news coverage I saw didn't address those.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I have really enjoyed watching this guys DIY Solar videos. Impressive young man if you read and learn about his life story.

Interesting video. Scrounging and elbow grease.... often productive.

Strategic move, using the trailer.

Rgds, D.

 

[dragoneggs]

Interesting video. Scrounging and elbow grease.... often productive.

Strategic move, using the trailer.

Rgds, D.

Great channel if you are into solar and DIY. Love his attitude.