Kubota M62 Cranks, Won't Start, Backhoe/3PH Interlock Issue (SOLVED!)

[RedNeckGeek]

Kubota M62 Tractor Loader Backhoe, 279 hours. It went through a regeneration cycle yesterday, sitting parked in the driveway. Everything seemed normal after that, moved it over to the backhoe and got the hoses hooked up, and the tractor wouldn't start. Cranks fine, just won't catch and run all the time. If it sits a long time, it'll start, but runs very poorly, then won't restart if tried.

I've replaced both air filters, and also the fuel filter. Bled the air out of the fuel system several times, still no start. I have the owner's manual and the factory service manual, and neither one gives much guidance for a no start situation. Any ideas here to start tracking down the problem?

Here's a video of the instrument cluster during a start attempt. Notice the change in engine sound a few seconds in.

Thanks in advance...

 

[RickB]

279 hours? Maybe a warranty problem?

 

[RedNeckGeek]

279 hours? Maybe a warranty problem?

No such luck. It was out of warranty when I got it.

 

[RickB]

Over 5 years old with those hours? Wow.

 

[mikester]

Sounds like it could be a lack of fuel, maybe a clogged filter or the valve is off

 

[Smokeydog]

When you connected the backhoe hoses did you also change the two valves under the seat? Tractor deadheading the hydraulics?

Slime in stored or low hour equipment diesel fuel always a problem in warm humid climates that has to be considered.

 

[fried1765]

Kubota M62 Tractor Loader Backhoe, 279 hours. It went through a regeneration cycle yesterday, sitting parked in the driveway. Everything seemed normal after that, moved it over to the backhoe and got the hoses hooked up, and the tractor wouldn't start. Cranks fine, just won't catch and run all the time. If it sits a long time, it'll start, but runs very poorly, then won't restart if tried.

I've replaced both air filters, and also the fuel filter. Bled the air out of the fuel system several times, still no start. I have the owner's manual and the factory service manual, and neither one gives much guidance for a no start situation. Any ideas here to start tracking down the problem?

Here's a video of the instrument cluster during a start attempt. Notice the change in engine sound a few seconds in.

Thanks in advance...

That cranking seems very weak.
You say 12.7 volts, but have you measured actual battery voltage while cranking?

 

[rScotty]

The video is very helpful. I can clearly hear the starter and also the change in engine pitch when compression ignition strats. I agree that the cranking seems oddly weak especially on a tractor measuring 12.7 volts.
Is that cranking speed normal for your M62?

That Makes me wonder if the battery is good but the connection to battery cables are poor. Might as well attend to them - especially the ground side.
Arguing against myself I might say, "does the weakness really matter since it is enough to get the engine to fire?"
But the answer to that is I simply don't know how sensitive the electronics on the new M62s is to voltage drop.... & it costs nothing to clean up the cable connections.

BTW, what color is the exhaust smoke when it is cranking and then does it change when it starts to run?

Also, I'm not sure of the sequence. It sounds like after the regen it started OK - that's good. But then it didn't start after hooking up the backhoe? What are your thoughts on that? Any chance that hookup went wrong and the load on the hydraulics iscausing the low cranking speed?

Finally, when did you change the filters. What drove you to do that. Any chance you changed filters right BEFORE hooking up the hoe and then it didn't start? If so, repeat the bleed sequence over and over and over....

rScotty - confession, I've been a mechanic professionally and then as a hobby for most of my life.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Yesterday I got a reply from Jennifer Bond on the Youtube page where I posted the video. She has an M62, and had experienced the same problem while attaching the backhoe. It turns out there is a safety switch in the 3-Point/Backhoe valve switches. If the hoses aren't hooked up in backhoe mode, the tractor won't start. And that's exactly what was happening.

This morning I put the levers back in 3PH position with the hoses disconnected, and it started after the 2nd turn of the key. The first was probably filling up the fuel filter I changed. It's back to normal now, and the BH is installed and working, with the levers in BH position.

Just out of curiosity this morning, I got out the "Kubota Backhoe" book, the skinny one that just covers the BT1400. There, on page 21, at the end of the instructions for REMOVING the hoe, under an IMPORTANT heading I found: "After dismounting the backhoe, set the directional valve levers in "3-POINT HITCH POSITION (A)". If not, the tractor will not start."

Sure wish I'd seen that earlier, and that it was included in the instructions for installing the backhoe, too. Now, thanks to Jennifer Bond, I know. Jennifer, thank you SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JenniferKubotaM62]

Woooo hoooo what team work.... We did it buddy!!!!!! Well done!!!

I posted your experience over on orange in case anyone else has this happen.

M62 no start, sounds like thrown rod...

I had an experience recently that scared the hell out of me... I was able to solve it and I noticed that a Youtuber I subscribe to had it happen to him.... and I was able to help him solve it... boy do I feel great..... am so happy for him... if any of you have a no start condition on your M62...

www.orangetractortalks.com

PS: I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you when I put on my 3rd function on the back for a thumb, I see you've done it.

Jen

 

[RedNeckGeek]

Woooo hoooo what team work.... We did it buddy!!!!!! Well done!!!

Your brains, my brawn. I got really lucky when you found my call for help!

PS: I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you when I put on my 3rd function on the back for a thumb, I see you've done it.

Jen

Unlike the top'n'tilt debacle, the thumb on the backhoe was relatively drama free. The foot pedal and the steel lines on the boom were already there, so all that was needed was to connect the cylinder and the thumb and add a couple of rubber lines. Hopefully your M62 has the same parts, but if not, Kubota has a kit.

Having said that, there are some articles here in TBN that list aftermarket sources for the thumb. I didn't do my homework before I saw them, but it sounds like I'd have saved a lot of money and maybe even ended up with a better thumb.

Thanks again for the help. Really saved the week!

 

[fried1765]

Your brains, my brawn. I got really lucky when you found my call for help!

Unlike the top'n'tilt debacle, the thumb on the backhoe was relatively drama free. The foot pedal and the steel lines on the boom were already there, so all that was needed was to connect the cylinder and the thumb and add a couple of rubber lines. Hopefully your M62 has the same parts, but if not, Kubota has a kit.

Having said that, there are some articles here in TBN that list aftermarket sources for the thumb. I didn't do my homework before I saw them, but it sounds like I'd have saved a lot of money and maybe even ended up with a better thumb.

Thanks again for the help. Really saved the week!

I have an aftermarket thumb on my Kubota L48.
It was made by M.C. Faulkner & Sons in Buxton, ME.
Faulkner has since been bought out by SRS Attachments of Norridgewok, ME.
The thumb was already mounted when I bought my (used) machine.

I am VERY pleased with their thumb, but have no idea of the cost to the original owner.
For others who might be interested: The SRS phone number is 207-858-0690.

 

[Smokeydog]

Appreciate the successful solution follow up. The M59 has the 3 pt/backhoe valves but not sure of a electrical interlock to prevent starting. The labels on valve positions is about faded out on mine so have extra Paint pen instructions.

 

[JenniferKubotaM62]

Your brains, my brawn. I got really lucky when you found my call for help!

Thanks again for the help. Really saved the week!

I'm just glad we were able to figure out what was wrong before you had to call in help (visuals of $$$ signs floating skyward) from the Stealer... (dealer).... and to be honest, what made the difference is that you were not too proud to reach out to the community for help... that's why you got an answer.....

PS: It wasn't luck, I was stalking you.. I subbed to your channel ages ago when you pulled that bucket out of the side of your van with your M, pretty impressive... LOL

Jen

 

[mikester]

Appreciate the successful solution follow up. The M59 has the 3 pt/backhoe valves but not sure of a electrical interlock to prevent starting. The labels on valve positions is about faded out on mine so have extra Paint pen instructions.

I don't think the M59 has that interlock. You can start the engine with the valves out of position and it lugs.

 

[JenniferKubotaM62]

I don't think the M59 has that interlock. You can start the engine with the valves out of position and it lugs.

it makes you wonder how many trips have been booked into the shop to resolves this resulting in service work, service calls or hey while you're here why don't we etc etc etc...

 

[RedNeckGeek]

it makes you wonder how many trips have been booked into the shop to resolves this resulting in service work, service calls or hey while you're here why don't we etc etc etc...

I was thinking about that earlier this morning, too. Unless the mechanics were familiar with the Kubota M62 and this particular issue, they'd probably spend a LOT of time stumbling around, checking other safety interlocks, basic component function, and replacing perfectly good parts. All on the customer's dime if, as in my situation, the warranty is long expired.

In the past I've had good luck talking to mechanics at the dealership about mechanical issues. The lead mechanic at the dealer where I purchased my top'n'tilt and thumb upgrades from was very helpful, first with trying to solve the leaky spool issue, then recalibrating the auto level on the FEL. The mechanic at another dealership walked me through replacing a seal buried deep inside the transmission on the old Kubota. That's the direction I was headed if you hadn't come to the rescue, Jen.

But I also have a theory that I'm hardly ever the first person to stumble into any particular problem, and somebody out there has the answer. Google is great if someone has documented their experience somewhere, and when that doesn't work, forums like TBN make it very easy to reach out. I gave Google a good workout Monday when the problem first started, but was still coming up empty handed Tuesday afternoon. That tells me that the interlock issue isn't wide spread, likely because not a lot of M62s are out there, and most of the owners don't even install the 3PH. I hate having to ask for help (yeah, it is a guy thing ) but I have no qualms about doing so if I've made a good effort to solve my own problem first. At least to the point where I can ask the right questions. There were at least two things going on, and the regen turned out to be a red herring. And the solution would only have been found by someone using the 3PH stuff, and we're rare birds, Jen. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket this week when I go into town? Or maybe I should lay low for a while, having used up a huge portion of my Karma?

 

[RedNeckGeek]

When you connected the backhoe hoses did you also change the two valves under the seat? Tractor deadheading the hydraulics?

Rereading your post, SD, that was essentially the problem, but in reverse. I had the hoses hooked up, but then had to disconnect them to better align the tractor when the hoe shifted on the gravel pad. The levers were in the backhoe position by then, so the tractor wouldn't start because of the interlock. But it did start a time or two after it sat overnight, likely because enough hydraulic pressure had leaked off that it took a few seconds for the interlock to kick in. I'm lucky something else didn't break under all that pressure, and that Kubota put a heck of a starter into these tractors!

 

[RedNeckGeek]

BTW, I've updated the topic of this thread to reflect the actual issue. Hopefully that will make it easier for someone else to solve the same problem.

 

[JenniferKubotaM62]

Or maybe I should lay low for a while, having used up a huge portion of my Karma?

I think maybe you should just hook up a charger to the battery, crack a beer, get up in the seat and just spend 15 minutes or so turning it over repeatedly to enjoy the sound of it firing up.. LOL