Dripping a Frost Free Hydrant

[derekuk101]

Does it help to drip a frost free hydrant or is it better to turn them off? The hose is off and the hydrant is outside. We are expecting temperatures around 4 or lower this weekend. I'm trying to keep it from freezing as our Richie fountains always freeze.

 

[jaxs]

Dripping a frost-free does more damage than good. #1. It cuts washer/o-ring which in turn can cut seat. Washer/o-ring is replacable but seat is not. #2. Not likly but at cold enough temp,trikle can freeze and restrict same as if a hose was connected. The little foam cups can help in cases where supply to facuet lacks ample insulation or is on wrong side of wall insulation.
On a related note,Dallas Tx is expected to be 10F which is very unusual so plumbers are licking there chops.

 

[Bearsixty7]

If it was installed correctly and has the gravel at the bottom, turn it off and let it naturally drain out.

 

[CobyRupert]

Turn them off.
“Dripping” them would either result in ice building up in the hydrant pipe above the frost line, or
You’d be constantly dripping water into the ground, through the hydrants drain hole. This will just saturate your drain and use unnecessary water (pump, etc..)
Hydrants are an on/off mechanism. Handle “down” plugs the water supply and clears a drain path for the water in the hydrant pipe above the buried valve. This is so there’s no water in the hydrant above the frost line to freeze. Handle “up” unplugs the water supply and block the drain path so water goes up the pipe to faucet.
Opening the handle partially might just let water go to the valve’s drain hole once the path out the faucet freezes up, or because it’s less gravity to overcome.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Dripping it would exactly defeat the very intended purpose, to have the pipe extending down below the frost level "empty". Given enough flow, it might not freeze. But dripping wouldn't do it.

FWIW I drilled a hole in the stem and insert a cotter pin during warm months, so the valve doesn't drain the pipe every time. Goes down just far enough to shut off the water flow. Has worked well for years.

 

[CobyRupert]

...FWIW I drilled a hole in the stem and insert a cotter pin during warm months, so the valve doesn't drain the pipe every time. Goes down just far enough to shut off the water flow. Has worked well for years.

Where’s the hole you drilled, above or below ground? How would cotter pin stop water from draining? What goes down far enough to shut off water flow?
On mine, down at the buried valve there’s a rubber plunger controlled by the rod from the handle that’s either down and blocks water supply, or up and blocks drain hole.

 

[jaxs]

I assumed you had the kind that extend's from building wall so my answer wasn't applicical.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It might be easier if I just took a picture. The pin prevents the handle from closing all the way. UNLESS, the lady friend sits on it, thinking it must just be jammed! Happened last summer.

 

[MF RED in MT]

My frost free hydrant is connected 6' below ground and if you leave a hose attached with a spray nozzle that does not leak, then it will not drain out when the hydrant is turned off.

KC

 

[CobyRupert]

It might be easier if I just took a picture. The pin prevents the handle from closing all the way. UNLESS, the lady friend sits on it, thinking it must just be jammed! Happened last summer.

So doesn’t it just leak? Maybe not leak all the way out of the faucet but out the drain hole?

 

[Industrial Toys]

Sorry, it's in the winter position and I didn't want to mess with it to take a picture that means something.

No it doesn't leak, but you have to get the position right. I drilled the hole and then installed a collar or bushing to get it just right. It's just now, I realized why the bushing was in there. It might have been impossible to drill the hole in the right spot the first time, but you can play with the length of the bushing.

I don't like to waste precious groundwater every time I operate the hydrant. But my hydrant is atop an underground pump house and the discharge hose from the hydrant feeds into a five gallon pail that I would prefer not overflow.

 

[RickB]

If it was installed correctly and has the gravel at the bottom, turn it off and let it naturally drain out.

To drain fully and reliably disconnect any hose from the hydrant.

 

[MF RED in MT]

To drain fully and reliably disconnect any hose from the hydrant.

I use a garden hose "Y" with shut offs connected directly to the hydrant.

After closing the hydrant handle, I will shut off the side of the Y with the water hose attached (so the weird tasting water inside the hose stays in the hose), and then I will open the unused side of the Y (so the water in the hydrant can drain out/down).

KC

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...VFRDnCh3CtwxKEAQYDSABEgKkJfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[RickB]

I use a garden hose "Y" with shut offs connected directly to the hydrant.

After closing the hydrant handle, I will shut off the side of the Y with the water hose attached (so the weird tasting water inside the hose stays in the hose), and then I will open the unused side of the Y (so the water in the hydrant can drain out/down).

KC

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...VFRDnCh3CtwxKEAQYDSABEgKkJfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Slick.

 

[lman]

I use a garden hose "Y" with shut offs connected directly to the hydrant.

After closing the hydrant handle, I will shut off the side of the Y with the water hose attached (so the weird tasting water inside the hose stays in the hose), and then I will open the unused side of the Y (so the water in the hydrant can drain out/down).

KC

https://www.acehardware.com/departm...VFRDnCh3CtwxKEAQYDSABEgKkJfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I've got one of those. I only use it in the summer and the little valve handles are a pain in the summer. I think they would be even stiffer at 0 degrees F. Wouldn't you still need to drain the hose to avoid freezing.

 

[CobyRupert]

I've got one of those. I only use it in the summer and the little valve handles are a pain in the summer. I think they would be even stiffer at 0 degrees F. Wouldn't you still need to drain the hose to avoid freezing.

Seems so.
In the summer, there’s no need to drain (let air in) the hydrant pipe. Any water that might be siphoned back into the hydrant from the hose is just going to drain into the ground or get flushed out as soon as hydrant is reopened. If the hose has a spray nozzle on the other end, no water will be siphoned back into the hydrant unless there’s leaks.
Leaving the hose’s “T” valve open when you open the “air” side valve not only allows the hydrant to drain, but allows the hose to drain out its far end too (also ideal in winter).

 

[Bearsixty7]

All our external faucets on the house have an anti-siphon fitting, When you turn them off with a hose attached the pressure drops and eventually it opens and releases the water.
I wonder if you could just put one on the frost proof hydrants and then it should automatically drain the hydrant. Or does it just let the pressurized water in the hose drain but keeps a seal on the source side?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-V...exqBeJ6pHM1DVaUSBCEaAgPTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[jaxs]

Be sure to take hose off. Bet you never heard that before didjee? :wizard:

 

[CobyRupert]

All our external faucets on the house have an anti-siphon fitting, When you turn them off with a hose attached the pressure drops and eventually it opens and releases the water.
I wonder if you could just put one on the frost proof hydrants and then it should automatically drain the hydrant. Or does it just let the pressurized water in the hose drain but keeps a seal on the source side?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-V...exqBeJ6pHM1DVaUSBCEaAgPTEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

(Edit: Device breaks vacuum, allows air in, hose and pipe to drain. Do or...)Don’t use on a hydrant. This is a backflow preventer. An anti-siphon, one way valve, call it whatever. Hydrants NEED to backflow (water and air) so that the hydrant’s standpipe coming out of the ground can drain itself of water down to a point below the frost line. If there’s water in the standpipe above the frost point, it will freeze in the the standpipe solid. Then your $#@&*ed. This is why you must remove hoses from hydrant (or open a bleeder valve like MF Red’s) when you turn hydrant off.

The reason you want an anti-siphon backflow preventer on your houses external faucet is so you don’t siphon the water in your garden hose that’s been laying in the sun back into your house and drinking water.
Perhaps others can explain how this could occur when you leave an external faucet on that is connected to a hose with a (shut off) nozzle at is outlet. Perhaps if your drinking fountain is significantly lower than the garden hose? (Or your neighbor’s drinking fountain? .... but backflow preventer at house supply should prevent this?) Or if you turn of city water supply, then someone opens a low drinking fountain?

 

[Bearsixty7]

Don’t use on a hydrant. This is a backflow preventer. An anti-siphon, one way valve, call it whatever. Hydrants NEED to backflow (water and air) so that the hydrant’s standpipe coming out of the ground can drain itself of water down to a point below the frost line. If there’s water in the standpipe above the frost point, it will freeze in the the standpipe solid. Then your $#@&*ed. This is why you must remove hoses from hydrant (or open a bleeder valve like MF Red’s) when you turn hydrant off.

The reason you want an anti-siphon backflow preventer on your houses external faucet is so you don’t siphon the water in your garden hose that’s been laying in the sun back into your house and drinking water.
Perhaps others can explain how this could occur when you leave an external faucet on that is connected to a hose with a (shut off) nozzle at is outlet. Perhaps if your drinking fountain is significantly lower than the garden hose? (Or your neighbor’s drinking fountain? .... but backflow preventer at house supply should prevent this?) Or if you turn of city water supply, then someone opens a low drinking fountain?

Yeah, was aware of it's purpose. What I don't know is if it eventually will let the source side vent once all the hose side pressure is gone though.