Propane Tank Outdoor Storage

[Bronco82]

Good Day Folks,

I heat my 24 x 24 shop with propane, using 100 pound tanks I bring to Costco for refilling. They have currently been sitting behind the garage, out in the elements, as that is where the plumbing for the heater in the garage is. I am looking to make something to house them, but still keep them available for removal for refilling, and ideally in the winter time warming the tanks up. A tank heater is not an option due to no close plug-ins, and the cost is on the higher side as well. They are in a spot that does get morning sun. At my family hunt camp, we have a small lean-to type shed off the side of the wall that houses the two tanks, and that's what I'm thinking for this, but it would be nice if the tanks could stay warmer in the cold winter snaps we get in northern Ontario. But, also to breathe in the summer type when it's hot out. I don't mind having to add or remove something in the spring and fall, when the temperatures start rising/dropping.

Any and all reasonable thoughts or ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dougtrr2]

I realize you may not have an outdoor outlet currently, but if your shop is wired, why can't you just splice into that wiring and put power to your tank shed?

Doug in SW IA

 

[Bronco82]

The shop is wired, so I suppose I could do that and run a light bulb in it. I don't think I want to do the tank heater thing as they are 550 watts, and to keep that on all the time, would up the hydro bill. Could wire in a 550 watt heater in the garage for the same price and not go through the propane. But the light bulb into a small enclosed shed is an idea, and will keep it a little warmer in there, and then in the spring, unscrew the light bulb.

 

[fidowanttobe]

A loooooong time ago a neighboring farm had an old chest freezer standing on its end for the chicken house propane tank . It too had a bulb in it and its already insulated with a door.
He also used a freezer for a dog house.
Different time and different people.
No, I am NOT suggesting that you do this! :laughing:

 

[kcflhrc]

Why do you feel the need to heat them? I understand building a lean to or something to keep them out of the elements but do they really need heat? My 500 gallon tank is outside, obviously.

 

[gasman1075]

Good Day Folks,

I heat my 24 x 24 shop with propane, using 100 pound tanks I bring to Costco for refilling. They have currently been sitting behind the garage, out in the elements, as that is where the plumbing for the heater in the garage is. I am looking to make something to house them, but still keep them available for removal for refilling, and ideally in the winter time warming the tanks up. A tank heater is not an option due to no close plug-ins, and the cost is on the higher side as well. They are in a spot that does get morning sun. At my family hunt camp, we have a small lean-to type shed off the side of the wall that houses the two tanks, and that's what I'm thinking for this, but it would be nice if the tanks could stay warmer in the cold winter snaps we get in northern Ontario. But, also to breathe in the summer type when it's hot out. I don't mind having to add or remove something in the spring and fall, when the temperatures start rising/dropping.

Any and all reasonable thoughts or ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

The ambient temperature will affect the vaporization capacity of propane tanks no matter what the size. if you moved them to a sunny area they would have the advantage of that radiant energy on a sunny day. I heat my 2 car garage with 2 100lb cylinders and a 22,000 btu heater. The garage is insulated and sheetrocked and I keep the TSTAT at 35' but have them filled on site when the LP company fills the 500 that supplies LP to my house. Since they aren't filled on site you don't have the same concerns as a permanent installation but any source of ignition ( electrical outlets are sometimes considered such ) within 10 feet of a propane tank is generally not a good idea. If you do enclose them make sure the bottom of the enclosure is open to the elements. Just my opinion.

 

[Bronco82]

PROPANE AND COLD WEATHER
During the winter months, cold weather can wreak havoc on the propane sitting unprotected in its tank. The temperatures are much too low to allow the propane to sit unaffected. More specifically, freezing temperatures negatively affects propane in two ways.

Propane Depletion
When the temperature drops, propane can be greatly reduced inside the tank. The propane shrinks due to the unforgiving winter cold, leaving an unsuspecting person shocked to find the tank level gauge reads well below what it did before the winter hit. Once this depletion has occurred, the only choice is to refill the tank – wasting precious time and money.
Loss of Tank Pressure
The pressure within a propane tank will drastically drop in cold weather as well. Propane is stored within the tank as a liquid, which is then released through a valve as gas. However, when temperatures drop too low within the tank, right around -44 degree Fahrenheit, the propane no longer has the ability to convert into its gaseous form.
The result? The propane cannot be extracted and sits utterly unusable within the tank.

 

[fried1765]

Why do you feel the need to heat them? I understand building a lean to or something to keep them out of the elements but do they really need heat? My 500 gallon tank is outside, obviously.

The OP is in Northern Ontario.
Have you ever been to Northern Ontario, in Winter?
Propane will not flow at -44 degrees!

 

[kcflhrc]

-44, yikes. Glad we never see that. I wonder if those strip heater's they use on water pipes would work to keep the tanks warm.

 

[kcflhrc]

Here ya go

Best Propane Tank Heater Blankets and Wraps | Powerblanket

 

[PILOON]

There exists a heat cable known as 'self regulating tracing'. I've used it often to keep water lines from freezing.
Usually offered as 3 or 6 watts per foot and either 110 or 220 powered.
Only the cold areas get the heat so it is as economical as possible.
Experience has proven the 6 watt cable can actually thaw a frozen water line but the 3 watt version only prevents freezing.

Very easy to use/install, just splice the AC onto the tracing wire and good to go.

That type of cable combined with some sort of blanket would, I'm sure, be a reasonable DIY solution.
Even wrapping with standard R12 home insulation 'blanket material' would be a good start.
Also fiberglass blanket insulation, by their nature, are fireproof, but keep it dry or sheltered.

Another approach to propane service in cold zones is to install the tanks in a pit to take advantage of ground heat as frost levels are generally a known factor: in my area 4/5 ft is helpful.
Consider the goal is to keep that propane closer to 'warm enough' merely to allow vaporization.


Shucks even the eavestrough 'tracing cable' sold in many box stores would be better than nothing as a heat source (under a blanket of sorts)

Addendum:
For occasional use the addition of a programable 7 day timer might be a feasible addition.

 

[Bronco82]

Here ya go

Best Propane Tank Heater Blankets and Wraps | Powerblanket

That is a thought, but that is also $45 a month added to the hydro bill, plus the initial cost of the blanket itself. For that price, I am better off to go with a small infrared heater. I appreciate the thought, it is an option, but not ideal in my head...which doesn't always work the best, hence the original post.

 

[gasman1075]

PROPANE AND COLD WEATHER
During the winter months, cold weather can wreak havoc on the propane sitting unprotected in its tank. The temperatures are much too low to allow the propane to sit unaffected. More specifically, freezing temperatures negatively affects propane in two ways.

Propane Depletion
When the temperature drops, propane can be greatly reduced inside the tank. The propane shrinks due to the unforgiving winter cold, leaving an unsuspecting person shocked to find the tank level gauge reads well below what it did before the winter hit. Once this depletion has occurred, the only choice is to refill the tank wasting precious time and money.
Loss of Tank Pressure
The pressure within a propane tank will drastically drop in cold weather as well. Propane is stored within the tank as a liquid, which is then released through a valve as gas. However, when temperatures drop too low within the tank, right around -44 degree Fahrenheit, the propane no longer has the ability to convert into its gaseous form.
The result? The propane cannot be extracted and sits utterly unusable within the tank.

Its the vaporization capacity that is reduced not the volume of liquid. Vaporization is the amount of liquid in contact with the steel which is warmed by the air and/or by the sun. At -30F you van hold a cup of liquid propane in your hands and watch it slowly vaporize......bigger the tank the more vaporization capacity you have available.

 

[gasman1075]

Here ya go

Best Propane Tank Heater Blankets and Wraps | Powerblanket

Awesome 42 years in the gas business and I learn something new everyday.

 

[gasman1075]

Awesome 42 years in the gas business and I learn something new everyday.

That being said they are pretty expensive and I am not sure if the electrical classification would allow them to be installed legally in the New England States and NY

Thanks for the information.

 

[LouNY]

There exists a heat cable known as 'self regulating tracing'. I've used it often to keep water lines from freezing.
Usually offered as 3 or 6 watts per foot and either 110 or 220 powered.
Only the cold areas get the heat so it is as economical as possible.
Experience has proven the 6 watt cable can actually thaw a frozen water line but the 3 watt version only prevents freezing.

Very easy to use/install, just splice the AC onto the tracing wire and good to go.

That type of cable combined with some sort of blanket would, I'm sure, be a reasonable DIY solution.
Even wrapping with standard R12 home insulation 'blanket material' would be a good start.
Also fiberglass blanket insulation, by their nature, are fireproof, but keep it dry or sheltered.

Another approach to propane service in cold zones is to install the tanks in a pit to take advantage of ground heat as frost levels are generally a known factor: in my area 4/5 ft is helpful.
Consider the goal is to keep that propane closer to 'warm enough' merely to allow vaporization.


Shucks even the eavestrough 'tracing cable' sold in many box stores would be better than nothing as a heat source (under a blanket of sorts)

Addendum:
For occasional use the addition of a programable 7 day timer might be a feasible addition.

I don't believe that even the 6 watt per foot heat tape would do a lot with propane vaporization in sub zero tempertures, even wrapping 50 foot around a tank is only 300 watts or just over a 1000 btu.
And if you insulate the tank when it does vapor off gas it will chill the tank.

 

[oosik]

When we lived in Glennallen, AK we had the 100# propane tank in a small enclosure. We found that around -15F to -20F the propane would not flow. We had a small heat lamp in the tank enclosure with a wall mounted switch in the kitchen. Get up - check the outside temp - if its down to double digit minus temps, flip the wall switch. In a short while you could fire up the kitchen stove.

 

[JethroB]

Using plexiglass to build your lean-to would be helpful when it's getting direct sunlight. Also a heat lamp controlled by a timer or thermostat. Hopefully before next winter there will be a lot of plexiglass being scrapped.

 

[fried1765]

Using plexiglass to build your lean-to would be helpful when it's getting direct sunlight. Also a heat lamp controlled by a timer or thermostat. Hopefully before next winter there will be a lot of plexiglass being scrapped.

Not much sunlight in Northern Ontario in the dead of Winter.
Very short days!

 

[shooterdon]

Just wondering....

Vaporization should be affected by the surface area. Those 100 lb tanks do not have much. You might be better off with a permanent 250 gal horizontal tank. Bulk is also cheaper and you do not have to wrestle those 100 leers around.

BTW, I live in Northern MI. Have had -35 and never experienced a propane supply issue running an 80,000 BTU furnace. That was with a 500 gal tank.