getting better snow traction with R1 tires

[nfisheremti]

I recently purchased an L3800 it came with R1 tires. I primarily use this tractor for snow removal. I have pretty close to ZERO snow traction. Since I just bought the thing, I can't afford the $2K or so to upgrade to R14s or even more $$$ to go to Nokians. How do I get better traction? The tires are not filled, I've put 3 sets of tractor weights (190 ish LBS/Wheel), and I still have close to nothing for traction. I'm thinking about grooving/siping, but I haven't seen any info on doing this on R1s (lots on R4s though). Has any one done this? What about tire pressures? How much can a lower the pressure, and not worry about popping beads? Does airing down even help with R1s in the snow? Any other thoughts or advice?

Thanks,
N

 

[PILOON]

Chains?

 

[nybirdman]

That's odd,no tires will have traction on "ice" with-out chains;snow shouldn't be a problem.I would load the rear tires first and ballast the back.Assume it's 4WD(real easy to chain the fronts,just lift with the loader).

 

[old and tired]

Studs?

Tractor Tire Studs | Grip Studs® Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Tractor Tire

 

[airbiscuit]

Are you talking about traction on snow or ice. Regarding winter traction,, I've had:

R4s - Racing slicks
Turf - Better than I expected
R1s - By far the best

4wd and differential lock should help when needed. If that's not enough a good set of chains will make a difference

 

[nfisheremti]

i should have clarified. chains are not an option. ice is not really my issue. i am in the mountains of utah. oodles of light fluffy powder. i spend one to 2 hrs each snowy morning before work clearing several dozen driveways. i need ground speed, and traction. i see chains working against that. maybe i'm wrong, but IMO 15mph is too slow already. i was hoping that i might still hit max speed (conditions depending) and not spend 2-3 hours clearing in the morning. has anyone had any experience with grooves and/or sipes on R1s? That's really what i'm interested in learning about.

Thanks

Edit: These are high-end residential driveways. Avoiding damage is a must.

 

[airbiscuit]

Can you hang more weight on the back? What is your set up?
Loader?
Front or rear snowblower?

Are you spinning the tires, or concerned about control at 15mph?

 

[nfisheremti]

I have a bucket up front, and a 60" farmking snowblower on the back (~450lbs). Most driveways around here are very steep. Backing up hill pushing the snowblower, is often a complete waste of time. I can go up forward, then drag back, but i'm worried about the damage i'm doing with the bucket. Other driveways I'm ***** end in, and diff lock and a little bit of side slipping usually gets me out. If it doesn't i have to try a multi point turn, and push myself out with the bucket, and hope i'm not beating up the driveway too much. I have a damage waiver and insurance, but I'd still hate to damage driveways I'd lose customers, and reputation (plus a lot of these guys are better lawyers than I can afford). Better traction at the front is most important, but all around would be best.

Thanks

 

[CobyRupert]

People here claim turfs are best for snow. I always assumed they mean best for a cleared snow path? Paved? Maybe I’m wrong, but I’d want R1’s over turfs if I had to drive across a snow covered field. What are you driving in?
When you lower the snowblower, you don’t really have 450 lbs of ballast anymore. Loaded tires and as much weight as possible may help. Chains sure would... if you could.

 

[airbiscuit]

Not to change the subject, but have you ever considered a Rear Pull snowblower? What kind of snow depths are you talking about?

Here is my 68" Meteor Rear Pull (671 lbs) 60" is 495 lbs

 

[groundcover]

I went with the screw in studs on R1's this year, have the Talon ice chains but not a fan of roading them. Pretty impressed so far.
Tractor Tire Studs | Grip Studs® Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Tractor Tire

 

[fried1765]

Chains?

Agreed !!!

 

[airbiscuit]

I went with the screw in studs on R1's this year, have the Talon ice chains but not a fan of roading them. Pretty impressed so far.
Tractor Tire Studs | Grip Studs® Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Tractor Tire

 

[5030]

Chains?

I only chain the fronts on my FWA M9 when I plow and blow snow. All you need. I have R1 radials. 34 pounds front, 30 back no ballast other than the Kubota cast centers. 7 foot blower on the back, 10 foot power angle plow on the front. So far this year, not on it. Time will tell on that.

 

[nfisheremti]

That's a sweet rig. I've thought about them, but decided to do a standard neck stretcher type. I need to be able to get right up to garage doors. My next purchase will be a pusher with pullback to take care of that. Driving forward would help with a lot with my traction issues. My older machine (1995 B2400 w/lots hrs), had those combi half ag, half turf, and turf up front. They were great. I rarely had traction issues. They were also filled and weighed a lot. Traction was never an issue with that machine. 24 (cough) hp, 8mph travel speed, and breaking down in some way nearly every trip out, had me wanting to retire that machine, and get something with more power and speed. I figured the R1s would do me just fine. While I still finish my route faster than I used to, it's pretty sketchy, and there are a few times I though I'd run into something really expensive. I'll look into the studs, but driveway damage is a big concern, and ice really isn't. As for snowfall, we get 300"+/season. This year's been terrible, our largest snow has only been 20" and most have been less than 10". what's been happening this year especially, is I get the driveways nice and clean, it warms up a bit, then it snows again. the bottom layer is wet and slick, and the snow on top is the normal light and fluffy.
It's the front tires that I could really use better traction on. They are doing most of the work pushing the tractor and snowblower uphill while the cutting edge is pushing into the pavement.

 

[old and tired]

...has anyone had any experience with grooves and/or sipes on R1s?...

Not personally but there are many threads saying how good they work with R4 tires (which really suck in snow) and the tool is less than $85...

I'm pretty sure they should be able to help with traction...

 

[ruffdog]

The OP said he doesn't have the $2k for better tires. Driveway damage is a issue so chains/studs would be out as both will leave scratches when spun. Once you pack snow and spin you have a ice condition and R4 or R1 (or any rubber tire) won't bite into a polished surface. Does the OP have insurance for any damage? He should. The customers should be aware that the equipment needs some teeth to have traction and scratches may happen.

 

[nfisheremti]

The OP said he doesn't have the $2k for better tires. Driveway damage is a issue so chains/studs would be out as both will leave scratches when spun. Once you pack snow and spin you have a ice condition and R4 or R1 (or any rubber tire) won't bite into a polished surface. Does the OP have insurance for any damage? He should. The customers should be aware that the equipment needs some teeth to have traction and scratches may happen.

I do have liability insurance, but over the last 25 years or so, I've built a reputation for doing good work for a reasonable price, without causing any damage. That's not strictly true, I've hit stuff in driveways, I've knocked over mailboxes etc, but nothing that required a claim. If I damaged my machine, I'd be toast though. Yes, when I spin the tires, I make a thin film of slush under the tires. I think 1/4" studs is overkill.

My B2400 had those combination tires, like an aggressive turf tire. They were excellent. I've been using those since I bought that tractor new in 1995. I've encountered the same conditions many times. The B2400 stuck to the road much better. My Subaru with snow tires has no problems with the exact same conditions exact same driveways. Neither have ever needed chains (OK, sometimes it would have been really nice to have them). Why all the sudden are chains or studs the only solution now?

All I am just asking if anyone has grooved or siped R1s. Yes, I've read every thread on grooving and siping R4 tires, I've seen all the adverts and reviews on R14s and Nokian T2 tires. I'd love a set of the Nokians, but that's new rims, + tires, $$$$ I can't afford. Same with the R14s. The rears I can find; the fronts (7.2-16) are a real odd duck, I can't find them anywhere. Even then, I'm still out thousands. where I could buy a groover/siper and save a lot of bucks.

That said, I'm not going to spend the money on a tool and slice up my current tires if it doesn't actually do any good on R1s. If I throw a groove down the middle of the lug as I see people doing on the much blockier R4s will it make the lug too unstable, and I end up chunking the tire when I'm doing dirt work in the summers? Are there different grooving patterns that work, like trying to make it R14ish? What if I just do sipes? Will that work, or do sipes only work with grooves?

I really don't want to do chains or studs.

Thanks.

 

[airbiscuit]

"If I throw a groove down the middle of the lug as I see people doing on the much blockier R4s will it make the lug too unstable, and I end up chunking the tire when I'm doing dirt work in the summers?"

That is an excellent question. I would have the same concern. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer.

 

[ruffdog]

Yes, when I spin the tires, I make a thin film of slush under the tires. I really don't want to do chains or studs.

Big lugged tires just don't do good when there is a chance of that slick building up. Grooves and sipes should help but you are asking the question before you cut up good tires. Understandable. I think you are in a bind and I hope someone can help you. :drink: