Battery Longevity

[Industrial Toys]

Ave was showing a $40.00 12 volt compressor that he figures is made for something like $4.00 in China. The repeated markups are unbelievable! I hate paying a lot for very little substance. I used to volunteer at Habitat and see consumer pricing in a whole different light. All those tons of Home Depot returns that are pretty much worth scrap price. It's why they have no problem giving it away. It actually helps them, in that they don't have to dispose of it.

 

[def38]

Many mentions of the use of "trickle" chargers for keeping batteries charged. Trickle chargers will destroy a battery if left charging a battery for long periods. Trickle chargers do not provide the needed regulation to safely maintain a battery. Instead, a "Smart" battery charger that uses the correct charging profile will keep batteries fully charged and not overcharge and boil the battery dry. I have ten year old FLA batteries on my motorhome that are like new. When not in use, a smart battery charger is attached and left powered to keep the batteries fresh. many smart chargers will also resurrect a sulfated battery and return it to good condition. My BMW uses a smart charger to keep the 9 year old AGM battery healthy when not riding. My riding mower battery is 7 years old and never fails to start the mower. It too is maintained with a smart charger. Batteries are getting more expensive. Keep them alive with a smart charger.

 

[fried1765]

Ave was showing a $40.00 12 volt compressor that he figures is made for something like $4.00 in China. The repeated markups are unbelievable! I hate paying a lot for very little substance. I used to volunteer at Habitat and see consumer pricing in a whole different light. All those tons of Home Depot returns that are pretty much worth scrap price. It's why they have no problem giving it away. It actually helps them, in that they don't have to dispose of it.

During my working years I had many trips to China.
When bargaining on the local market, I considered the expected local price to be between 10-15% of the USA selling price.

 

[fried1765]

Many mentions of the use of "trickle" chargers for keeping batteries charged. Trickle chargers will destroy a battery if left charging a battery for long periods. Trickle chargers do not provide the needed regulation to safely maintain a battery. Instead, a "Smart" battery charger that uses the correct charging profile will keep batteries fully charged and not overcharge and boil the battery dry. I have ten year old FLA batteries on my motorhome that are like new. When not in use, a smart battery charger is attached and left powered to keep the batteries fresh. many smart chargers will also resurrect a sulfated battery and return it to good condition. My BMW uses a smart charger to keep the 9 year old AGM battery healthy when not riding. My riding mower battery is 7 years old and never fails to start the mower. It too is maintained with a smart charger. Batteries are getting more expensive. Keep them alive with a smart charger.

See my post #54

 

[goeduck]

My "standard" 2A/6A charger is probably 10 to 15 years old and does shut off when the battery reaches full voltage. I have an ancient one that I do not use that does not shut off. I call both of those trickle chargers because that is what they used to be called. They both only output a constant state voltage when charging and have no firmware in them as my maintainer/chargers do.

 

[def38]

Fred, your post is correct.

Some years ago, I discarded my trickle charger. It was responsible for destroying several FLA motorcycle batteries. I replaced my last Yuasa m/c battery with an Odyssey PC680 AGM that has never failed to start the BMW R1150GS. It is maintained with the recommended Odyssey charger. AGM batteries prefer a somewhat different charging profile from FLA or SLA batteries. AGMs prefer slightly higher charging voltage. There are modifications to the alternator's regulator (a diode) that increase the alternator's voltage output by about 0.3-0.4 VDC to accommodate the increased voltage but, I have not done the modification. It seems not to effected the AGM's life. Those who have done it report no adverse effects to the electrical system. Even incandescent lamps don't seem to mind the voltage increase.

 

[def38]

During my working years I had many trips to China.
When bargaining on the local market, I considered the expected local price to be between 10-15% of the USA selling price.

I too visited China often. Established a branch of our company in Shanghai. Used to buy Rolex watches and pearls in the local market. Over the years, one of the local merchants even grew to know me by my first name. Still have the Rolex watches....yes, they keep accurate time once a day!

The pearls however are still valued by many of my wife's fiends who received them as Christmas gifts.

Today, I would never return to China. I also avoid buying anything made there.

 

[Cougsfan]

I own several "battery maintainers" of various brands. They all work fine. All are "smart" in that they shut off when a "full charge" is achieved. What is different about them is that each has a different definition of a "full charge". One of the Battery Tender units has different settings for different styles of batteries, which I assume changes the definition of a "full charge". Being a creature of habit, I still refer to them as "trickle chargers". I have found that if you do that on this forum you will get chastised

 

[ultrarunner]

I guess one of my old 1960's chargers is a flood charger... it just pumps out 35 amps forever...

I loaned it to a neighbor who forgot and boiled his battery and the case too hot to touch.

 

[lman]

I guess one of my old 1960's chargers is a flood charger... it just pumps out 35 amps forever...

I loaned it to a neighbor who forgot and boiled his battery and the case too hot to touch.

I would retire that antique and put it in the local museum.

 

[goeduck]

I own several "battery maintainers" of various brands. They all work fine. All are "smart" in that they shut off when a "full charge" is achieved. What is different about them is that each has a different definition of a "full charge". One of the Battery Tender units has different settings for different styles of batteries, which I assume changes the definition of a "full charge". Being a creature of habit, I still refer to them as "trickle chargers". I have found that if you do that on this forum you will get chastised

I like being able to select between AGM and flooded batteries to optimize the charge voltage. I have one Optima maintainer and it has 2 AGM selections, one for start batteries and one for deep cycle batteries. So there is even a difference there. That charger can figure out what kind of battery it is attached to on its own.

 

[fried1765]

I too visited China often. Established a branch of our company in Shanghai. Used to buy Rolex watches and pearls in the local market. Over the years, one of the local merchants even grew to know me by my first name. Still have the Rolex watches....yes, they keep accurate time once a day!

The pearls however are still valued by many of my wife's fiends who received them as Christmas gifts.

Today, I would never return to China. I also avoid buying anything made there.

I just gave a beautiful pearl necklace to my granddaughter for her December Georgia Tech graduation.
I have a REALLY valuable strand of pearls to give to somebody...someday...maybe...., if not,..... my son will dispense them through my will.

 

[fried1765]

I like being able to select between AGM and flooded batteries to optimize the charge voltage. I have one Optima maintainer and it has 2 AGM selections, one for start batteries and one for deep cycle batteries. So there is even a difference there. That charger can figure out what kind of battery it is attached to on its own.

So true!
Especially the "chastised" part!

 

[ultrarunner]

I would retire that antique and put it in the local museum.

NO it is like gold...

All of my other chargers require some voltage to start charging... in a pinch I have paralleled two 12 volts to trick the smart chargers.

But with the old guy it just puts out...

I did loose my 6 volt 80 amp max Baldor... loaned it to a friend and the mesh back plate somehow dented and stopped the fan and it melted down... it also did 8 volts which is rather rare...

Not saying I have never broken anything... but it does seem others are more apt to be careless...

I broke a borrowed harbor freight tile saw and went right out and bought a new one to return and kept the old one I was able to repair.

The friendship is more important plus personal responsibility...

I keep looking on Craigslist for an old 1950's garage charger with 6, 8 and 12 volts...

 

[Jstpssng]

Imagine that, an item made on the other side of the planet costs more by the time that it gets to us.

 

[Gregster613]

Okay all, I've got a question regarding this subject. I've got a Champion generator that's 6 years old. Last year the ignition switch failed, I replaced it and no future problems. This year when I tried to crank it up -- the switch said rrrrrrrrrrrrr... and nothing else. I thought switch again and bought a few spare replacements. But it puzzled me and so I tried just hooking up a spare lawnmower battery I have in the garage (on a trickle charger); and whroom it cranked over like no problem. So it's a faulty battery....or so I "assume".

I admit the first 4 years of the original generator battery life were "not" on a trickle charger for the down periods. Would that be enough to cause it to die?

For the last two years it's been on a Battery-Minder 1500 (which charges, maintains, and de-sulphates), as are all of my other batteries. I've had no problems with any of those other batteries for 3 years - although they are - in fact - newer batteries than what's in the generator.

Anyway, my generator battery shows 13.6 volts, which says it's fully charged, yet it won't crank the genny over. I put my [Harbor Freight] load charger on it and it failed. Now, I don't know enough about a load charger to know for sure how it works. I did hook up to the spare battery I used to check the switch on the genny and it did show that battery to be good.

My question is -- can a fully charged battery - in fact - be a dead battery? I'm thinking it is and a mere 30$ or 40$ to replace it isn't an ending. Just, is my interpolation of how a load charger works correct or faulty? I'm guessing here now and would appreciate some advice on my thought patterns. Thanks to all. Greg

 

[fried1765]

Okay all, I've got a question regarding this subject. I've got a Champion generator that's 6 years old. Last year the ignition switch failed, I replaced it and no future problems. This year when I tried to crank it up -- the switch said rrrrrrrrrrrrr... and nothing else. I thought switch again and bought a few spare replacements. But it puzzled me and so I tried just hooking up a spare lawnmower battery I have in the garage (on a trickle charger); and whroom it cranked over like no problem. So it's a faulty battery....or so I "assume".

I admit the first 4 years of the original generator battery life were "not" on a trickle charger for the down periods. Would that be enough to cause it to die?

For the last two years it's been on a Battery-Minder 1500 (which charges, maintains, and de-sulphates), as are all of my other batteries. I've had no problems with any of those other batteries for 3 years - although they are - in fact - newer batteries than what's in the generator.

Anyway, my generator battery shows 13.6 volts, which says it's fully charged, yet it won't crank the genny over. I put my [Harbor Freight] load charger on it and it failed. Now, I don't know enough about a load charger to know for sure how it works. I did hook up to the spare battery I used to check the switch on the genny and it did show that battery to be good.

My question is -- can a fully charged battery - in fact - be a dead battery? I'm thinking it is and a mere 30$ or 40$ to replace it isn't an ending. Just, is my interpolation of how a load charger works correct or faulty? I'm guessing here now and would appreciate some advice on my thought patterns. Thanks to all. Greg

You are very fortunate that your battery has lasted as long as it has.
Those small lawn tractor type batteries are almost all just cheap junk.
I figure they are good for two, or max, 3 years.
Don't waste your time fretting over it.
Buy a new (cheap junk) battery....you NEED it!

 

[Gregster613]

Thanks fried1765, That's what I was thinking but got puzzled by use of my load tester and the multimeter. I kind of figured the battery was junk. Do you know of any stronger - same sized - batteries that work any better? Since I've got to replace, rather do it with something better if it's out there.

 

[fried1765]

Thanks fried1765, That's what I was thinking but got puzzled by use of my load tester and the multimeter. I kind of figured the battery was junk. Do you know of any stronger - same sized - batteries that work any better? Since I've got to replace, rather do it with something better if it's out there.

I have read that the small size Yuasa batteries are good, but have no personal experience.

 

[Grumpycat]

Anyway, my generator battery shows 13.6 volts, which says it's fully charged, yet it won't crank the genny over. I put my [Harbor Freight] load charger on it and it failed. Now, I don't know enough about a load charger to know for sure how it works. I did hook up to the spare battery I used to check the switch on the genny and it did show that battery to be good.

My question is -- can a fully charged battery - in fact - be a dead battery? I'm thinking it is and a mere 30$ or 40$ to replace it isn't an ending. Just, is my interpolation of how a load charger works correct or faulty? I'm guessing here now and would appreciate some advice on my thought patterns. Thanks to all. Greg

I too don't know what your HF Load Charger does but put voltmeter on battery while trying to start your generator. Rule of thumb says less than 9 volts while starting is time to replace battery. Am guessing that because you get no starter action the battery may be close to zero volts.

And yes, battery voltage is a poor indicator of the battery's capacity. There is a low energy capacitive charge on battery after charging which is why it is recommended to test car battery voltage only after 30 seconds or so of headlight with engine off. Let the headlights burn off the capacitive charge.