How long before Compact Diesels are obsolete?

[grsthegreat]

Consider if you will ....

Smallish combustion engine to power a generator that powers what does the work. Same as locomotives that haul freight cross country.

look inside a locomotive. The engine is huge compared to the batteries. No such thing as a perpetual motion engine.

 

[grsthegreat]

I agree. Electric tractors make the most sense. Be a bunch quieter, too.

Would love to have one, as my solar panels are on the roof of the carriage house where the tractor is parked. In most cases, the tractor's "fuel" will cost me nothing.

Will need a bunch more panels and batteries to eliminate my diesel generator though.

Ralph

i had one customer that had to go solar due to remoteness of property. Hed already spent over $40k on system and i was bidding on generator to back it up...another 9k. This was for a small 1400 sf home and shop. He said it was marginal power supply at best. On cloudy, snowy days....not good. Thats what the gen would be for. He wished he went for the $60k package to have more power.

Sad thing was, as i was leaving his place about a half mile away they were installing power poles. Apparently another neighbor was bringing in power. I bet he would be able to get power pretty soon as alot of new properties were being developed near him. Solar is nice in sunny climates...not do much in idaho.

 

[CobyRupert]

.....As others have said, we don't have the electrical capacity to generate enough electricity to charge all those batteries. It would require coal and nuclear and they have been framed as dirty electricity. So where does the raw power come from? Then the power distribution over the grid is another problem....

Nationally, coal supplies 23.5% and nuclear supplies 20%. Like renewables, and natural gas, the source of YOUR electricity varies widely depending on what part of the country you’re in.
(Note: I assume solar is under represented in this data as this is “utility scale” sources.)

 

[Snobdds]

In Wyoming, we have had a boom of big tech companies building huge data storage facilities for their platforms. Why? Cheap energy. We use coal to power these facilities.

We also have the world's largest supercomputer. Why? Cheap energy.

The world is still powered largely by cheap power.

Don't be fooled by amazons commercials of wanting to save the planet. Their entire business is fueled by cheap, coal based power.

 

[Mat4644]

Long before Elon and Tesla and it's video of it's electric truck pulling a piston truck GE made a video in the 70s of the Elec-Trak pulling a John Deere backwards. Pulled it backwards even loaded with 3 people.

Elec-Trak: A New Concept in Home Ground-Care - YouTube

 

[Snobdds]

Long before Elon and Tesla and it's video of it's electric truck pulling a piston truck GE made a video in the 70s of the Elect-Trak pulling a John Deere backwards. Pulled it backwards even loaded with 3 people.

Elec-Trak: A New Concept in Home Ground-Care - YouTube

View attachment 674898

Yes, direct drive electric motors have an advantage in their ability to supply instant torque. But you know, they only win for about a minute before the battery dies at full power with that old lead acid battery. Then the gas powered tractor will be dragging a dead machine for hours later.

 

[Mat4644]

The biggest customer for the GE Elect-Trak were widows such as my Aunt that didn't want to mess with a gas engine. On full charge they were acceptable but full charge didn't last long with the golf cart batteries.

 

[CobyRupert]

In Wyoming, we have had a boom of big tech companies building huge data storage facilities for their platforms. Why? Cheap energy. We use coal to power these facilities.

We also have the world's largest supercomputer. Why? Cheap energy.

The world is still powered largely by cheap power.

Don't be fooled by amazons commercials of wanting to save the planet. Their entire business is fueled by cheap, coal based power.

All true!
Amazons business model is also based on transporting some widget made so cheaply on the other side of the world by some polluting industry and slave labor that they can still pay for all the fuel that gets burnt delivering it to you.
How green! There kumbaya commercials showing a couple solar panels and a dad with his daughter saving the planet are ridiculous.

 

[Snobdds]

All true!
Amazons business model is also based on transporting some widget made so cheaply on the other side of the world by some polluting industry and slave labor that they can still pay for all the fuel that gets burnt delivering it to you.
How green! There kumbaya commercials showing a couple solar panels and a dad with his daughter saving the planet are ridiculous.

Yes, they say they will be carbon neutral by 2025. Yet, they just built a second huge facility to keep up with demand. One of the biggest transfer stations in the world is being built as we speak. All being supplied by a power plant taken out of moth balls to provide the energy. The plant is supplied by wyoming coal and Warren Buffet trains.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Maybe I should have explained that by "obsolete," I didn't mean you are going to junk your current tractor and buy an electric one, but that sales of new tractors would supplant diesels as the new norm.
There is no reason why current diesels shouldn't be around for many years..

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I am 70. Have a fairly new tractor with 145 hours on it. It will not matter.

Plus I want a cab with A/C and heat. More battery sucking 渡eeds?

I'm 70. I have a 14 year old tractor and would like something a little bigger, but it probably won't matter for me, either.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Back in the late 70s during the Carter era, my old man fell for an electric tractor. It was called an ElecTrak E-20. It had a front mount mower. Same principal as whats being proposed today.
Back in the 50s and 60s my grandfather bought several of the Philadelphia Post Office battery powered delivery trucks. He sold the aluminum bodies off them.
Folks, none of this is new. Battery powered cars were available 100 years ago. Battery powered vehicles go back almost as far as combustion engine vehicles.
What is new is the battery technology and the leap in microchip computer controls.

Absolutely. The batteries are a big deal. They were making battery powered horseless carriages before the turn of the 20th Century, I think. Huge improvements in battery technology are what makes this even thinkable.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Worked as a electric lineman for 39 years.Everyone has grand plans for electric cars, trucks,tractors and so on.I am here to tell you the electric power grid will not handle it.The grid can barely keep up now.Most of the power grids were built back in the 30,s 40,50,s and 1960,s with minimal upgrades.Just some food for thought.

The grid has peak and off peak. Most EVs will be charged at night, off-peak. Also some of the juice will come from home generated electricity. If the grid can't handle the night charges, those with solar panels can charge charging batteries during the day from the sun instead of selling to the grid at wholesale.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

The electric lawn tractors of the 70s weren't that good. Notice that in promotional videos they are always clipping grass that's only grown 1/2 inch. Taller grass the batteries didn't last long. Plus you had to watch overheating blade motors in high load conditions. That's why they didn't last in the marketplace.

In the future there will still be gears and transmissions needed to keep motors in optimal torque and efficiency ranges. With all the technology these will not be the simple to work on low cost devices predicted in the original post. They will not be silent and will have a characteristic whine.

There are plenty of good electric lawn mowers now. The problems with earlier electric lawn tractors were mostly due to batteries. I'm sure there are ways of getting around the blade motor problems. Blades will likely be driven off the main motors or hydraulically anyway on CUTs.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Worldwide, much of the electric power used to charge these battery powered tractors (and primarily cars) will be produced by coal fired plants, with the associated power distribution networks requiring massive upgrades.
There is no FREE LUNCH!

Actually, studies have shown that even when electricity is generated by coal plants, electric cars are less polluting than ICE vehicles. So there's that. There is also, again the move to cleaner energy generated by rooftop solar or by power plants running on solar, wind ore even nuclear if there are technology advances in the nuke direction.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Tractors currently in small-scale production and sales.
Solectrac Electric Tractors | United States

Again, I'm interested here mainly in CUT sized tractors. Very large farm tractors, from what I understand already have several Electric models out there working right now. Where the 100+ hp trade will go, I know not, but I would expect that to be populated by electrics sooner than CUTs because of the enormous prices involved with big diesel tractors.

Don't know if Deere is still testing and developing..

John Deere's electric tractor in action - YouTube

 

[grsthegreat]

The grid has peak and off peak. Most EVs will be charged at night, off-peak. Also some of the juice will come from home generated electricity. If the grid can't handle the night charges, those with solar panels can charge charging batteries during the day from the sun instead of selling to the grid at wholesale.

most charging stations run between 40-50 amps (ones that i have installed). the cars charge for something like 8 continuous hours. correct me if im wrong, but most home solar arrays barely put out 50 amps of power during the daytine, and certainly not at night. you cant store enough batteries to supply 50 amp draw for 8 hours to charge your car at night. at least not in the systems that i have worked on.

 

[Engineer42]

CASE 58 EV - The Industry's First Fully Electric Backhoe Loader | CASE Construction Equipment. Maybe sooner than we think.

 

[Snobdds]

CASE 58 EV - The Industry's First Fully Electric Backhoe Loader | CASE Construction Equipment. Maybe sooner than we think.

I can see it now. A highway project lined with electric equipment plugged into diesel generators.

I think its well intentioned, but everyone is still limited by battery and source of power.

 

[Jstpssng]

I can see it now. A highway project lined with electric equipment plugged into diesel generators.

I think its well intentioned, but everyone is still limited by battery and source of power.

If we don't try though, things will always remain the same. Imagine if Neil Armstrong had said "I don't feel like going down that ladder"?