Kubota F v. zero turn

/ Kubota F v. zero turn #1  

Hay Dude

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Challengers: MT655E, MT555D, MT535B, Massey 7495, Krone 4x4 XC baler, 2-Kubota ZD1211’s, ‘20 Ram 5500 Cummins 4x4, IH 7500 4x4 dump truck, Kaufman 35’ tandem 38K trailer, Deere CX-15, 2 Pottinger Hay mowers, NH wheel rake, Claas 30’ tedder
Ive heard enough upside about the Fs to start hunting for one over the winter. Sights set on a F3860. My ZD331 has served me well for years, but Im still tearing too much turf for my liking. Shes also getting up there in commercial use hours/age so something newer would be desirable. I may trade it in on the F or keep it depending on F price.
So heres my question:
I have heard the Fs are better than a zero turn on steep ground and thats a big factor for me, but where would the F be inferior to a zero turn, like my ZD331?

Under low tree branches is the one I can think of.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #2  
If you mow in a back and forth pattern a front deck won't turn back on the last pass without making a fairly large light bulb shaped turn. Kinda like running an 8 row narrow planter with a Boxcar Magnum.
A front deck shines in wide open spaces with long runs. Most brands of front deck mowers that offer 72" decks offset the deck so one side can run under overhanging vegetation better than most any zeroturn. Of course you can run the full depth of the deck under branches etc by driving head on into them. It is slow work, but impossible with a conventional zero turn. I've been at dealerships that sell high quality front deck mowers for a long time. In my opinion the major reason there aren't more of them in use boils down strictly to cost.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #3  
Trying to mow in tight spots and hauling 2 of them on a trailer. Also the 2wd models have far worse traction than a ZT.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #4  
Owning a 2WD front deck mower is a bad choice in most cases. Making that choice in a money saving effort won't end well in most instances.
Stay clear of the F3990 and its inferior emissions system.
 
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/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Should have made it clear up front, it would be a 4wd.
No interest in 2wd
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #6  
I don't sell Kubotas or even work for a Kubota dealer. All I have to offer is my experience over the past 16 years with Kubota BXs, Bs, L,s, MX and RTVs, Fs and Z's in several sizes, actually 30 of them.
I've owned a 2wd F and traded it to a ZD3xx and then bought the 2wd F back later. I've owned two F3080s and currently own a F2690 4wd. I also currently own a ZD1211 and have owned the smallest gas Kubota Z and a 7xx Kubota Z.
I used to own a commercial rental property with 20+ units and a large leach field plus I own 30 acres home site wooded and hillside.
I prefer the F 4wd for home hillside property with no reservations saying it. I have never chosen to pay the extra for the highest HP F and do not see me ever doing so, just my opinion. I've gotten all of the Zs and ZDs stuck in small ditches on my home site and also lost some hair color riding the Zs and ZDs down some of my hill yard and prayed there was not a tree in my way coming down since they become uncontrollable sometimes on steep down hill grades especially if a bit damp grass or sometimes even high slick grass. Never have had any down hill or uphill sliding problems with any of the Fs whether 2wd or 4wd but there are a few of the steepest parts that the 2wd F would not climb going forward but could always back up them. Never have had any issues climbing straight up or going down with the 4wd F. The Fs will almost turn on their own self and only a slight swing area when turning, the back end does swing around but the front deck just turns on itself or all of them have for me using them for almost 15 years. I have bumped trees and fences with the rear end though when real close and up against them. I did prefer a rear discharge deck for many reasons but now prefer the side discharge with the mulching kit/block plate which keeps blowing grass off me, off the battery and can cut using both side of the deck. The F deck will go so far under a tree and the ZD doesn't go under the tree at all. The F is more or easier to control on open ground that isn't parking lot smooth and the F is faster in open but the ZD is a bit faster cutting around some trees, rental units and outside AC units but any open ground makes the F the faster and more comfortable machine to drive.
Just my opinion as a user of the machines for many years, not a mechanic or sales person for a dealer, just a using consumer and my experience. Also the F is much, much easier to service which I'm saying with gusto after just changing the hyd filter under the ZD1211 rear end, the ZD has 2 and the F has one easy to change one and the deck is right there open in front of me.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Im pretty sold, but as my working career is closer to the end than the beginning, I want to surround myself with equipment that doesnt compromise on ownership satisfaction. I want a complete mowing machine that can handle any lawn terrain I throw at it with reliability, versatility and comfort.
My ZD331 has been very good, but I sense the Fs might be even better. Still cant believe I missed on a nice F3860 with 1500 hours and 72” deck for $8,000. :ashamed:
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #8  
Im pretty sold, but as my working career is closer to the end than the beginning, I want to surround myself with equipment that doesnt compromise on ownership satisfaction. I want a complete mowing machine that can handle any lawn terrain I throw at it with reliability, versatility and comfort.d:

I'm running an F 2000! Talked my new bride into it for our hills at our first house, told her that it will be the last mower we'd ever need. That was in about 1983- 84. We bought it used from a commercial cutter @ under 1200 hours for iirc $4000 - 4500. We're on our 2nd gearbox on the mower deck, starter and clutch (done in the last 2 years) and still now our grass with it now. There was a ZD-28 in there for a while, but sold that because our next home was 100% wooded.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#9  
heres another F question: is the smallish rear axle rugged enough for bad lawn conditions (holes)?
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #10  
I'm running an F 2000! Talked my new bride into it for our hills at our first house, told her that it will be the last mower we'd ever need. That was in about 1983- 84. We bought it used from a commercial cutter @ under 1200 hours for iirc $4000 - 4500. We're on our 2nd gearbox on the mower deck, starter and clutch (done in the last 2 years) and still now our grass with it now. There was a ZD-28 in there for a while, but sold that because our next home was 100% wooded.

YES!!! I've mowed fields, woods and rocky, gullied hillsides with them for years. Have broken or pulled pins holding front wheels on deck on some and they need hardened steel replacements and bolts/nuts for woods mowing, low growing tree mowing. I have a field turned into a yard, not a lawn.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #11  
After reading rave reviews of the F mowers on TBN over the last few years, I finally took the plunge this last spring and purchased a F3990. John may not be a Kubota salesman, but he did a pretty good job on me. I’ve been thinking I should add a review to one of these F threads, and I guess this one is as good as any.

The thing is a real mowing machine! It has cut my mowing time in half at least. Some of my mowing is on very steep slopes, and it is an absolute billy goat on them. (*More to come about this below.*) With the side discharge, it will chow through tall and thick grass without a grunt. It will spin around nearly as tightly as a zero turn.

Having said all that, there are a few things to add.

I was impressed with the mulching kit testimonials, but I was so anxious to get it home and start mowing this spring that I had them deliver it right away without the kit - they had to order the mulching kit in. That is how I know it will cruise through tall thick grass with the side discharge. However, the mulching kit warned to slow down and overlap a bit and don’t let the grass get too long. When the kit came in and I added it, I found this to be VERY true. It only makes sense of course. It is awesome though to mow in any direction without grass flying out the side. It doesn’t just block the outlet, it is a real mulching kit. You remove a side-directional-plate-thing from under the deck, then mount in the new circular baffle parts.

Second, it is 4WD, and has the lever to put it in 4WD. However, when it not in 4WD, it’s not really in 2WD. They have some sort of clever system that engages the 4WD when it senses it’s needed. The brochure explains this (you can view it online) and it’s pretty cool. But I have found, I think, that the back wheels will engage when you turn very sharply - it must sense the inner front wheel slippage from turning the tight corner or something. The back wheel will tear up the lawn some on very tight turns and I’m guessing the 4WD is engaging. I end up doing more gentle turns, with some backing and forward, than I’d like to have to do.

Third, as has been mentioned by others, the rear steering takes some getting used to. I haven’t swung and hit it into anything yet but I’ve come pretty close a few times, and twice I’ve gotten myself stuck. Once, turning away from my pond I mow around, I let the back end swing down around and into the water and mud. It was just too slick to drive out of. The other was on a steep bank edge, and again turning away from the edge I let my back end hang up (down) over the edge. It takes some getting used to, and I’m pretty conscious anymore about what the back end is doing in close quarter situations.

BTW, you have the mower in float during normal mowing. But you can also not put it all the way into float. I’ve found this really nice for the pond - I mow forward up to the edge of the pond and slip it out of float and lift the deck just a little. Then I can mow out over the edge of the pond a bit to get the grass right on the edge, with the deck holding its height above the water. It’s time consuming because it’s a lot of back and forward (you’re hitting only six feet of the pond edge at a pass), but it sure beats weed whipping it all.

*This next thing is the only thing I’ve found so far that I really don’t like at all, and is a bit hard for me to explain. It seems to go into kind of a free-wheeling situation when backing down a slope and returning the peddle to the middle. I know that is the neutral pedal position, but every other HST I’ve driven will pretty much hold its position when the pedal returns to center. This will NOT hold you, and you can find yourself flying down the hill backwards until you just touch the pedal forward. This immediately stops the free-wheeling. The brake really won’t stop you, the front wheels just lock and slide. The first time was really frightening, and honestly I’m lucky it wasn’t a bad ending. Keep your foot ready to return the pedal to forward when backing down hill !!!

It has the “3990 emission system” that’s been denigrated in a few of these threads, but I haven’t had any issues with that at all. It’s gone into regen a few times over the summer, and I wouldn’t have known it if the little indicator light hadn’t come on. I guess time will tell if it develops issues in the years to come.

Overall, I’m super pleased with the mower and the job it does and the time it saves me mowing. I’d definitely buy it again.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#12  
That’s a great, honest review. Thanks. Anything else you can think of, let us know.
I think the emissions systems are probably fine for first several years, then become troublesome on older machines. Spoke with a 3990 owner a month ago and said the entire system had to be replaced in the first week (done under warranty). Since then, trouble free.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #13  
We service 3 F3990's at work. 2 have had multiple emissions hardware and software problems throughout the entire 5 year emissions warranty period. The "reformer" system is used on 3 Kubota machines, the F3990, B3350 tractor and ZD 1511. Software updates have helped reliability to a large degree. The B3350 has been discontinued, replaced by a tractor with a completely different fuel system, emissions system and model designation. My guess is the ZD1511 and F3990 are not far behind. I would be very skeptical of buying any of these models used, particularly if they are out of emissions warranty. They use an inferior system and Kubota has begun distancing themselves from it.

As always, it's your choice and your dime.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #14  
We service 3 F3990's at work. 2 have had multiple emissions hardware and software problems throughout the entire 5 year emissions warranty period. The "reformer" system is used on 3 Kubota machines, the F3990, B3350 tractor and ZD 1511. Software updates have helped reliability to a large degree. The B3350 has been discontinued, replaced by a tractor with a completely different fuel system, emissions system and model designation. My guess is the ZD1511 and F3990 are not far behind. I would be very skeptical of buying any of these models used, particularly if they are out of emissions warranty. They use an inferior system and Kubota has begun distancing themselves from it.

As always, it's your choice and your dime.

Yikes! I hope mine is in the one-out-of-three category that doesn't develop recurring issues... :eek:

What are the symptoms of the failing emission system? How does the mower start to behave with a failing system, what might I be looking for?
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #15  
heres another F question: is the smallish rear axle rugged enough for bad lawn conditions (holes)?

The F is basically a tractor you drive in reverse, I'm thinking about the B series sized tractor. The rear axle seems plenty robust, just like the comparable compact tractor would have. You are just driving the tractor backwards, with the 3-point sticking out the front. The smaller rear wheels will make holes noticeable, but the same as hitting them with a B series sized tractor would going forward.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #16  
Failure to start or complete the regeneration process. There are plenty of related threads here specific to the B3350 and to a lesser extent the F3990.
I'm glad you have no issues with yours.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#17  
The F is basically a tractor you drive in reverse, I'm thinking about the B series sized tractor. The rear axle seems plenty robust, just like the comparable compact tractor would have. You are just driving the tractor backwards, with the 3-point sticking out the front. The smaller rear wheels will make holes noticeable, but the same as hitting them with a B series sized tractor would going forward.

Good points. I had a BX2200, so I can relate to that.

On another note, I did a search on Tractor House for F3680s today. Some choices, but not overwhelming choices out there. Most are 10-15k with 600-1500 hours on them.
Mowing is pretty much over for the year, so I have lots of time, but would like to get it soon and go through it over the off season. Another thing I like it the optional front blower and flail mower. Those would be nice for the future.
 
/ Kubota F v. zero turn #18  
I am sure you know that there are many other brands of front deck mowers: front deck 4wd mower -stiga -kubota at DuckDuckGo

Here is mine a Toro 328D: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/all-other-brands/301894-any-toro-groundsmaster-fans-here.html

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/ Kubota F v. zero turn #19  
/ Kubota F v. zero turn
  • Thread Starter
#20  
Toro is a fine machine and if I found one, properly equipped, I would consider it. I did notice that Xfaxman owns a ZD1211, too.
 
 
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