ANOTHER ELECTRICAL QUESTION

[MossRoad]

Well, you opened the door to super duper criticism with that post.... :laughing:

I understand what you're trying to do, but really, why?

A 100 amp 240V transfer switch is less than $150.

Use something like that between your main and sub-panel, put the few circuits you want to power when power is out in the sub-panel (I think you already have them there), and hook an outlet for the generator(s) to plug into the transfer switch. Then you're safe and secure. :thumbsup:

As for paralleling two generators, while it can be done, why not sell them both and buy one that's big enough?

 

[LouNY]

Sorry, I have been under the weather for a few days and have not been able to appropriately respond to the suggestions. I apologize for not explaining my situation from the get go. I will try to remedy that now.

I live on the gulf coast so the threat of hurricanes and power outages is present much of the year. Outages can last from a few hours to several days. I have two Champion 3400 watt generators and would like to use them with a parallel kit to feed a 120/240 volt sub-panel. That panel will provide us with some lighting, satellite tv, run my refrigerator and freezer and a small window ac in my shop/living quarters. The only 240 volt appliances I have are a clothes dryer and central ac in the house. These I can live without for a few days if necessary. I plan to completely remove the wires feeding the sub-panel and even remove the outside breaker from the main panel so a mistake cannot be made and the power be mistakenly restored to the sub-panel. I realize that the two generators run in parallel DO NOT produce 240 volts, only two 120 volt feeds. The sub-panel I have contains 6 - 120volt breakers on each side. The MAX amp load on each side is about 14-16 amps according to my amp meter. Average load is much less than that so the 50 amp parallel feed should be more than enough. I know how to feed the sub-panel properly with the two 120 volt generator feeds but I'm not completely sure what to do with the neutral and ground wires coming from the generator. I understand that the generators have a floating neutral and my main panel has the neutral and ground bonded. So, do I hook up the ground and neutral wires coming from the generator to the sub-panel in their appropriate busses or will the ground connection cause a "ground loop" and present a problem. Sorry for the long post but I really need to know. Thanks.

I'm a bit confused you talk of paralleling generators,
then I'm hearing or think I'm hearing that each generator would go to an individual leg in the panel box.

So am I correct that you would remove any 240 2 pole breakers from the panel,
disconnect the incoming 240 volt feed from the panel box and then,
connect each generator to each separate hot leg in that panel box so that each leg has an independent 120 volt feed.
Each generator is capable of about 28 amps at 120 volts so almost 60 amps of 120 volt potential.
I have no clue what would happen as they are not really paralleled or synced together, might work might let out a bunch of expensive smoke.
I tend to believe that if all the grounds and neutrals are connected you could get by but it sure would be nerve wracking the first few times,
A larger generator would be much better,
if fuel conservation is an issue use a larger one when everything is up and going and drop to a single small one for low use periods.
Good luck

 

[TBone]

Well, you opened the door to super duper criticism with that post.... :laughing:

I understand what you're trying to do, but really, why?

A 100 amp 240V transfer switch is less than $150.

Use something like that between your main and sub-panel, put the few circuits you want to power when power is out in the sub-panel (I think you already have them there), and hook an outlet for the generator(s) to plug into the transfer switch. Then you're safe and secure. :thumbsup:

As for paralleling two generators, while it can be done, why not sell them both and buy one that's big enough?

A Champion parallel kit for these generators is $69.95. An inverter to replace both of them is around $1000. I have been unable to find a transfer switch for less than $150 (that is in in stock and available). If you know of one I would appreciate a link. Thanks.

 

[grsthegreat]

Sorry, I have been under the weather for a few days and have not been able to appropriately respond to the suggestions. I apologize for not explaining my situation from the get go. I will try to remedy that now.

I live on the gulf coast so the threat of hurricanes and power outages is present much of the year. Outages can last from a few hours to several days. I have two Champion 3400 watt generators and would like to use them with a parallel kit to feed a 120/240 volt sub-panel. That panel will provide us with some lighting, satellite tv, run my refrigerator and freezer and a small window ac in my shop/living quarters. The only 240 volt appliances I have are a clothes dryer and central ac in the house. These I can live without for a few days if necessary. I plan to completely remove the wires feeding the sub-panel and even remove the outside breaker from the main panel so a mistake cannot be made and the power be mistakenly restored to the sub-panel. I realize that the two generators run in parallel DO NOT produce 240 volts, only two 120 volt feeds. The sub-panel I have contains 6 - 120volt breakers on each side. The MAX amp load on each side is about 14-16 amps according to my amp meter. Average load is much less than that so the 50 amp parallel feed should be more than enough. I know how to feed the sub-panel properly with the two 120 volt generator feeds but I'm not completely sure what to do with the neutral and ground wires coming from the generator. I understand that the generators have a floating neutral and my main panel has the neutral and ground bonded. So, do I hook up the ground and neutral wires coming from the generator to the sub-panel in their appropriate busses or will the ground connection cause a "ground loop" and present a problem. Sorry for the long post but I really need to know. Thanks.

This is really a simple solution. It can’t legally be done. Period.

No electrician in his or her right mind would risk hooking up 2 - 120 volt systems into some kind of frankenstein transfer switch to operate a main panel. Buy a generator that has 240 available output and be done with it.

 

[TBone]

I'm a bit confused you talk of paralleling generators,
then I'm hearing or think I'm hearing that each generator would go to an individual leg in the panel box.

So am I correct that you would remove any 240 2 pole breakers from the panel,
disconnect the incoming 240 volt feed from the panel box and then,
connect each generator to each separate hot leg in that panel box so that each leg has an independent 120 volt feed.
Each generator is capable of about 28 amps at 120 volts so almost 60 amps of 120 volt potential.
I have no clue what would happen as they are not really paralleled or synced together, might work might let out a bunch of expensive smoke.
I tend to believe that if all the grounds and neutrals are connected you could get by but it sure would be nerve wracking the first few times,
A larger generator would be much better,
if fuel conservation is an issue use a larger one when everything is up and going and drop to a single small one for low use periods.
Good luck

If you will re-read my post you will see that there are NO 240V breakers in this panel, only 120V breakers. The parallel kit is specifically made for my Champion generators so I don't see there should be a problem there. As far as a larger generator, that is definitely an option. However I have these two practically new 3400 watt 120 volt generators that I would like to use. They are quiet, reliable and put out clean inverter power. A single new inverter generator that would provide the power that these do is around $1000. The 50 amps that my two generators would be more than enough to supply the panel. My only concern is the neutral and ground connections. Thanks for your reply.

 

[TBone]

LouNY:
I'm hearing that each generator would go to an individual leg in the panel box.

So am I correct that you would remove any 240 2 pole breakers from the panel,
disconnect the incoming 240 volt feed from the panel box and then,
connect each generator to each separate hot leg in that panel box so that each leg has an independent 120 volt feed.

You understand exactly except there are no 240v 2 pole breakers in the panel. All breakers are 120v single pole.

 

[Topzide]

The parnell kit only produces one 120 volt feed in higher amperage! Is doesn't make two 120 feeds. What you are trying to do is a fire waiting to happen! You need to sell and get a generator that will produce 240 volts and then go from there!

 

[TBone]

This is really a simple solution. It can’t legally be done. Period.

No electrician in his or her right mind would rusk hooking up 2 - 120 volt systems into dome kind of frankenstein transfer switch to operate a main panel. Buy a generator that has 240 available output and be done with it.

Trying to understand your poor spelling. I'm not "rusking" anything on a "dome" kind of frankenstein transfer switch. I'm not trying to operate a main panel. I am trying to supply power to a SUB panel. A 240 volt generator would be the same exact thing. Read, Study, Learn.

 

[grsthegreat]

Trying to understand your poor spelling. I'm not "rusking" anything on a "dome" kind of frankenstein transfer switch. I'm not trying to operate a main panel. I am trying to supply power to a SUB panel. A 240 volt generator would be the same exact thing. Read, Study, Learn.

Its not the same thing. You cannot legally supply each leg with a different separately derived device. Parallel generators double output but its for 120 only.. theres nothing to wake up and learn about. Ive been an electrical contractor for nearly 40 years. If you want to do this, than do it. Just don’t expect anyone to condone it or tell you its ok to do.. personally i am done with this, i am unsubscribing to it.

 

[TBone]

The parnell kit only produces one 120 volt feed in higher amperage! Is doesn't make two 120 feeds. What you are trying to do is a fire waiting to happen! You need to sell and get a generator that will produce 240 volts and then go from there!

You would be more believable if you could actually spell parallel. There are two 120v feeds coming out of the parallel switch, each carrying 120 volts and have a total of 50 amp capacity. If you will read and learn you will find that to be facts. Thanks for the fire warning. I will take that under advisement.