AC question

[Texasmark]

That plug is most likely for a low pressure switch. You are doing a great job of working this problem. You will find a solution no doubt!

Yes the low pressure switch has a (tractor wiring harness)connector that mates to the Rx dryer.

 

[5030]

Here's more info on TXV block valves. Keep us posted, Cougsfan.

Regarding ammonia, recall that liquid anhydrous ammonia is dumped all over farm fields as fertilizer with no mass casualties.

Regarding propane, recall that commercial propane is used for heating all over rural lands, with only the occasional mass casualty. It is transported by road, rail, pipeline, sea, and even air.

Both must be in the millions of tons per year, handled routinely and, for the most part, safely.

View attachment 664976

Entirely false. AN is an inhalation hazard causing death and it has to be incorporated (as in knifed in below the ground surface). it is not 'spread' like granular fertilizer. IOW, you get as good whiff of AN, you are toast.

 

[bernardcuziillo]

A small clarification: Comparing the 2014 manual, K25W-201406, to the 2015 manual, K25W-201504, the receiver dryer vanished. I've attached the system diagram pages for the two manuals, and the links to the full manuals, with thanks to Asteral of Caddo Mills, TX.

View attachment Page from TIER 4 20 SERIES.pdf
View attachment Page from Branson 20 series service manual.pdf

TIER 4 2 SERIES.pdf - Google Drive - Tier 4 20 series

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y1u...ew?usp=sharing - 20 series

 

[LouNY]

Thats some good information,
but talk about a short sited revision, deleting a receiver dryer doesn't sound like the best procedure to me.
It would certainly reduce the abount of needed refrigerant also.
I would wonder about the advisability of retro fitting a receiver dryer, personally I would be very tempted to.

 

[bernardcuziillo]

Entirely false.

1. Please don't flame.
2. Please stay on topic. This is Cougsfan's AC troubleshooting thread.
3. Instead of "dumped all over," I should have written "injected 6-8 inches deep in"
4. As others have mentioned, AH "has a built-in safety factor - you can't stand to breathe it. No one can voluntarily remain in a concentration of anhydrous ammonia gas strong enough to damage the nose, throat, lungs, eyes or skin. When people receive burns or eye damage from the product, it is because of a sudden release of it where the victim is unprotected and cannot escape."

 

[Cougsfan]

Update.... My tractor AC works! For now. I tried holding a vacuum on the system over night. The system went to around 28"hg immediately. I shut the pump off and came back about 6 hrs later and it had dropped to around 18 or 19". I turned the pump back on and left it until this morning and it had dropped to about 25". I pulled an absolute vacuum again and recharged the system. We filled it to 21 psi on the low side and 230 psi on the high side. We ran the tractor for 15 minutes and the pressures held steady. The air out of the evaporator fell to 49F. So we disconnected the gauges and called it good. Then the amazing thing happened. The hose on the high pressure end gauge had an appreciable amount of water in it! I would guess about 2 tablespoon full ran out.

That is a LOT of water in a small AC system. I am not sure why the water came to reside in the high pressure gauge hose, haven't figured that out. But I am glad it went there as opposed to my system.

So what has been happening is that the water in the system has been accumulating and freezing in the condenser, blocking all flow. Pulling a vacuum for a couple hours is not long enough to evacuate that much moisture. It took doing it all night to get it done. I am amazed there was that much water in there. The system has always had freon in it and has never been left open longer than brief periods of time.

Not having a receiver dryer certainly is a problem. It is also why the system only takes about half as much freon as the book says. From some of the things Bernard posted, Branson may have indeed made a few tractors without receiver/dryers, That is unfathomable! I plan to go back to Branson and insist my tractor be retrofitted with one. I cannot see the system working long term without one.

By the way, it does have a low pressure switch somewhere, because the compressor wouldn't engage until we put enough freon in it.

 

[K5lwq]

Great Job Cougs! I was thinking probably the water was introduced when you used compressed air to flush the system. Probably if you had chased that with some nitrogen it would have dried the system.

I did not pay attention before this thread but my 4815C does not have a dryer or accumulator. At least I know now to take extra care if I have to open it up for some reason. Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[5030]

1. Please don't flame.
2. Please stay on topic. This is Cougsfan's AC troubleshooting thread.
3. Instead of "dumped all over," I should have written "injected 6-8 inches deep in"
4. As others have mentioned, AH "has a built-in safety factor - you can't stand to breathe it. No one can voluntarily remain in a concentration of anhydrous ammonia gas strong enough to damage the nose, throat, lungs, eyes or skin. When people receive burns or eye damage from the product, it is because of a sudden release of it where the victim is unprotected and cannot escape."

You posted it not I and I rebutted your comment because you don't know crap from applebutter obviously. Stick to what you know and leave the other stuff alone.

Not his thread. Tt's a public forum and as such I can comment on any thread I want to....and I did, I rebutted your false comment.

 

[5030]

One comment I will make concerning his no repaired dilemma and that is, in post 33 with the view of the roof mount ac components, there is a substantial amount of dirt and chaff on the blower housings and as such, I suspect there is also quite a bit under the evap / heater core cover as well on both HX's and that will reduced the efficiency of them in both heat and cool modes.

Just went through that with my Kubota M9 cab tractor and had to disassemble the housing and clean them both. Made a huge difference in cooling and heating efficiency. Just a little FYI because no matter how good a system works, a clogged with dust and crap HX will degrade efficiency and eventually lead to a frost issue because the HX cannot transfer the cool to the warm air coming in.

 

[LouNY]

Update.... My tractor AC works! For now. I tried holding a vacuum on the system over night. The system went to around 28"hg immediately. I shut the pump off and came back about 6 hrs later and it had dropped to around 18 or 19". I turned the pump back on and left it until this morning and it had dropped to about 25". I pulled an absolute vacuum again and recharged the system. We filled it to 21 psi on the low side and 230 psi on the high side. We ran the tractor for 15 minutes and the pressures held steady. The air out of the evaporator fell to 49F. So we disconnected the gauges and called it good. Then the amazing thing happened. The hose on the high pressure end gauge had an appreciable amount of water in it! I would guess about 2 tablespoon full ran out.

That is a LOT of water in a small AC system. I am not sure why the water came to reside in the high pressure gauge hose, haven't figured that out. But I am glad it went there as opposed to my system.

So what has been happening is that the water in the system has been accumulating and freezing in the condenser, blocking all flow. Pulling a vacuum for a couple hours is not long enough to evacuate that much moisture. It took doing it all night to get it done. I am amazed there was that much water in there. The system has always had freon in it and has never been left open longer than brief periods of time.

Not having a receiver dryer certainly is a problem. It is also why the system only takes about half as much freon as the book says. From some of the things Bernard posted, Branson may have indeed made a few tractors without receiver/dryers, That is unfathomable! I plan to go back to Branson and insist my tractor be retrofitted with one. I cannot see the system working long term without one.

By the way, it does have a low pressure switch somewhere, because the compressor wouldn't engage until we put enough freon in it.

Good to hear it's back up and working, that much moisture and no receiver dryer is certainly not a good situation.

 

[Cougsfan]

One comment I will make concerning his no repaired dilemma and that is, in post 33 with the view of the roof mount ac components, there is a substantial amount of dirt and chaff on the blower housings and as such, I suspect there is also quite a bit under the evap / heater core cover as well on both HX's and that will reduced the efficiency of them in both heat and cool modes.

You do make a point. I pulled the cover off my evaporator/ heater cores and cleaned them as one of my steps. It is a difficult chore on my tractor. There was substantial amount of dirt on the leading edge of the evaporator. I cleaned it off and I could notice a difference in air flow. However at that point in my project, I had no freon flowing, so the air temperature off the coil was the same (warm) before and after cleaning. I did read last night that if the air flow is decreased via dirt on coils what you will likely see is a drop in the air temperature because the same amount "negative" btu's from the freon evaporating has a smaller volume of air to cool. So it cools it further. Likewise, when you turn your cabin fan to a faster setting, the air temperature off the coils might actually rise, but despite that the cooling of the cab increases because of the increase total amount of heat transfer that occurs. Makes sense.

 

[Cougsfan]

Entirely false. AN is an inhalation hazard causing death and it has to be incorporated (as in knifed in below the ground surface). it is not 'spread' like granular fertilizer. IOW, you get as good whiff of AN, you are toast.

In my early work career as a food processing plant engineer I was more than once around very serious leaks in anhydrous ammonia refrigeration systems. We didn't have any personal protection other than googles, a condition that would require hazmat suits these days. I have seen the air so green from ammonia that you couldn't see across the room, It was definitely a situation requiring concern and caution, but not "that" big of a deal back then. What will happen is your eyes, arm pits, crotch and nose will burn to high ****. The burning will be what gets to you and eventually causes you to dash to fresh air, not poisoning via inhalation. I have gotten far more than a "good whiff" more than once. Here, 40 years later, I am not yet toast. What the experienced refrigeration operator would do is have people man water hoses and spray water all over the place to change it to aqua ammonia. It still stank and burned, but it allowed you to fix or isolate the leak. These days, rightfully so, you can't approach an ammonia leak in the same manner we used to. It can be explosive. I suppose if you were locked in a room of anhydrous ammonia it might asphyxiate you, but so would any freon. Any experienced refrigeration operator will tell you a freon system is more dangerous than an ammonia system because of the risk of asphyxiation. There are a lot of exaggerations floating around concerning how deadly ammonia is.

I have never been around using anhydrous ammonia as fertilizer, but I am quite sure you won't ever be exposed to the same conditions and concentrations as a leak in a enclosed ammonia refrigeration compressor room.

So before you accuse someone from not knowing crap from applebutter, you should be sure that you know the difference yourself. Of course you have the right to say whatever you want on a public forum. But why do feel that gives you the license to be rude? I don't get it.

 

[aczlan]

In my early work career as a food processing plant engineer I was more than once around very serious leaks in anhydrous ammonia refrigeration systems. We didn't have any personal protection other than googles, a condition that would require hazmat suits these days. I have seen the air so green from ammonia that you couldn't see across the room, It was definitely a situation requiring concern and caution, but not "that" big of a deal back then. What will happen is your eyes, arm pits, crotch and nose will burn to high ****. The burning will be what gets to you and eventually causes you to dash to fresh air, not poisoning via inhalation. I have gotten far more than a "good whiff" more than once. Here, 40 years later, I am not yet toast. What the experienced refrigeration operator would do is have people man water hoses and spray water all over the place to change it to aqua ammonia. It still stank and burned, but it allowed you to fix or isolate the leak. These days, rightfully so, you can't approach an ammonia leak in the same manner we used to. It can be explosive. I suppose if you were locked in a room of anhydrous ammonia it might asphyxiate you, but so would any freon. Any experienced refrigeration operator will tell you a freon system is more dangerous than an ammonia system because of the risk of asphyxiation. There are a lot of exaggerations floating around concerning how deadly ammonia is.

I have never been around using anhydrous ammonia as fertilizer, but I am quite sure you won't ever be exposed to the same conditions and concentrations as a leak in a enclosed ammonia refrigeration compressor room.

So before you accuse someone from not knowing crap from applebutter, you should be sure that you know the difference yourself. Of course you have the right to say whatever you want on a public forum. But why do feel that gives you the license to be rude? I don't get it.

That matches what we are currently being taught for dealing with anhydrous ammonia at work.
We had a live release training last year and (unsuited), we were within a couple hundred feet.
The guys and gals who were suited up (level A hazmat suits with SCBA) went up to it and tarped the "release" point, then shut off the valve.
Is it to be respected? Certainly.
Is it to be feared? Not so much.

Aaron Z

 

[LouNY]

That matches what we are currently being taught for dealing with anhydrous ammonia at work.
We had a live release training last year and (unsuited), we were within a couple hundred feet.
The guys and gals who were suited up (level A hazmat suits with SCBA) went up to it and tarped the "release" point, then shut off the valve.
Is it to be respected? Certainly.
Is it to be feared? Not so much.

Aaron Z

The times sure are a changing, wasn't too many years ago that a water fog was the prescribed method of dealing with a great many gaseous releases and many liquid spills.
Nothing like walking into a spill or release in street cloth and a rain suit with a respirator or many be an SCBA, or working in hazardous level of a product with a hose connected breathing mask (H2S) so much fun. And yet somehow we survived and got the job done.

 

[aczlan]

The times sure are a changing, wasn't too many years ago that a water fog was the prescribed method of dealing with a great many gaseous releases and many liquid spills.
Nothing like walking into a spill or release in street cloth and a rain suit with a respirator or many be an SCBA, or working in hazardous level of a product with a hose connected breathing mask (H2S) so much fun. And yet somehow we survived and got the job done.

Water fog is still prescribed for knocking down Ammonia clouds, we had it on hand for our live release training, but we decontaminated the hazmat suits with large fans until they didn't change litmus paper, less mess and cleanup for the Level A suits than hosing them down.
Code requires much more ventilation (especially in mechanical spaces) now than they used to even a few years ago.


Aaron Z

 

[Cougsfan]

They have changed so many things when it comes to using ammonia as a industrial refrigerant starting in the mid 90's, all for the better. Having ammonia monitors and alarms are now the standard. Better ventilation in rooms that may contain ammonia, better isolation capabilities. PPE that is readily available for use, clear established operating procedures, mandatory training to deal with a problem, mandatory spill reporting, mandatory locks on systems to keep people from robbing it to make meth (we have had that happen) etc. Most companies went through a thorough review of their particular systems and developed their own emergency response procedures. Some may claim it is going overboard, but not really. It is just being responsible. And yes water is still used to knock down ammonia.

The same kind of protocols are used for other refrigerants too, it just isn't ammonia.

Another side note, back in the day I'd walk into an ammonia compressor room and smell ammonia. I'd ask the refrigeration operator why am I smelling ammonia. A common reply would be "I don't smell anything." People who are around it all the time become desensitized and it really has to be fairly strong before they can smell it. Sort of like the people who live around a pulp mill. After a while they don't even notice the smell.

It is sooo nice to have an AC in my tractor again!

 

[Kentuckyfarmer]

They have changed so many things when it comes to using ammonia as a industrial refrigerant starting in the mid 90's, all for the better. Having ammonia monitors and alarms are now the standard. Better ventilation in rooms that may contain ammonia, better isolation capabilities. PPE that is readily available for use, clear established operating procedures, mandatory training to deal with a problem, mandatory spill reporting, mandatory locks on systems to keep people from robbing it to make meth (we have had that happen) etc. Most companies went through a thorough review of their particular systems and developed their own emergency response procedures. Some may claim it is going overboard, but not really. It is just being responsible. And yes water is still used to knock down ammonia.

The same kind of protocols are used for other refrigerants too, it just isn't ammonia.

Another side note, back in the day I'd walk into an ammonia compressor room and smell ammonia. I'd ask the refrigeration operator why am I smelling ammonia. A common reply would be "I don't smell anything." People who are around it all the time become desensitized and it really has to be fairly strong before they can smell it. Sort of like the people who live around a pulp mill. After a while they don't even notice the smell.

It is sooo nice to have an AC in my tractor again!

I know it’s been a while since this thread started but you do have a filter dryer. It’s built on the condenser coil. On the left side (facing the tractor) notice a round tube about an inch and a half and the full length of the coil itself. It’s only attached to the coils at the bottom. I guess it was some genius thought that design up. I believe a regular style like the picture you posted of filter dryer is much better. Probably the reason you had water in your gauge line after you pulled a vacuum on the high side hose pulling from the high side. I’m have problems with mine now not wanting to cool and seems to be loosing Freon. Trouble is no signs of a leak any where.