Creek crossing & pipe project?

[Fuddy1952]

I have a creek crossing that I used two loads of railroad ballast. OK at first, water flowing through the stones but they fill will leaves and silt, so I buried a 6" & 3" PVC pipe. OK except we've had lots of rain recently which they couldn't handle.
I have this 3ft. X 13ft. Galvanized corrugated pipe which should be final solution. I have a JD3038, FEL & 7.5ft backhoe which should do it.
Before I start I'm trying to figure out how to do it.
A few things...the hill going down is steep (where stone is). The creek bed which is about 10" below crossing is solid bedrock (so I can't dig deeper). The 3ft. pipe I assume I would need about 2 ft. of dirt on top with about 6" RR ballast then gravel on that? Then either side would take an awful lot of dirt going to it, especially on the steep uphill side going back maybe 50 feet (actually a good thing since my small tractor does a wheelstand going up now).
Then I figure I'd have to move all that ballast out the way first, then put it back.
Pictures are in order as I walked down hill just now. Last picture is coming back, the road is a Y...bear right goes back up steep hill, left crosses a small pond dam and much more level ground.
Thanks any ideas. View attachment 641499View attachment 641500View attachment 641501View attachment 641502

 

[ovrszd]

That's a much bigger project than first appears.

You definitely need a culvert. Yours is wayyyyy too short. 20ft minimum. Then start hauling dirt. Fill in the far side to the height of the humps on each side of the path. Bring that level across the ditch over the culvert and meet the steep grade halfway up. Going to take quite a bit of dirt. Some rough math would give you an estimate in cubic yards. Then do the math for whatever your tractor will haul. Then commit devotion and patience. In the end you'll have a great crossing.

 

[Fuddy1952]

That's a much bigger project than first appears.

You definitely need a culvert. Yours is wayyyyy too short. 20ft minimum. Then start hauling dirt. Fill in the far side to the height of the humps on each side of the path. Bring that level across the ditch over the culvert and meet the steep grade halfway up. Going to take quite a bit of dirt. Some rough math would give you an estimate in cubic yards. Then do the math for whatever your tractor will haul. Then commit devotion and patience. In the end you'll have a great crossing.

Thanks...shame I couldn't use this 13ft one somehow though. Just so I could get tractor/bush hog and 1/2T pickup across.
I'm thinking 7ft at top would be fine? Otherwise maybe I could add maybe an 8ft larger pipe to it?

 

[ovrszd]

Do you have a shop or garage that you park in?

If so, block the doorway down to 7ft wide and use it that way for a week. Then we'll talk more about your culvert.

If you bought a 36" dual wall plastic culvert it'll cost $25 p/ft. $500 for 20ft.

You've probly spent that much on gravel.

 

[aczlan]

Do you have a shop or garage that you park in?

If so, block the doorway down to 7ft wide and use it that way for a week. Then we'll talk more about your culvert.

If you bought a 36" dual wall plastic culvert it'll cost $25 p/ft. $500 for 20ft.

You've probly spent that much on gravel.

And a double wall plastic culvert will flow more water then a similar sized corrugated metal culvert due to the plastic being "slipperier" than the metal and the inside of the plastic culvert being smooth rather than ribbed.

Aaron Z

 

[1010]

Rent a mini track hoe for half a day, dig the rock back, place the rock on the far side of the cut in the middle of the crossing in front of you. You will need every rock to cover again. roll the pipe into position in the cut, be prepared to remove the pipe to remove more rock so it sits down in the cut correctly and has some small degree of fall on the down stream side. Then cover. As much rock as you have there you could easily borrow some else where to make it look nice again.

IMO trying to dig that even partially with a front loader on a tractor would take a long time, be hard on the machine, and loosing rock you will need. Get the tool for the job..

 

[Egon]

You have solid bedrock?

Clean off the bedrock, spread the stream flow over a larger area and drive through it.

 

[RalphVa]

I like Egon's idea. I researched creek crossings about a year ago because we were thinking we needed to replace our with stuff piled over 5 or 6 six inch PVC pipes. It kept getting silted in during the very wet 2018.

A culvert would carry the flow, but I was having troubles with how to protect the upstream end of the culvert from being torn away. Never really solved that problem. Maybe those recommending them and have used them can chime in.

I finally ended up with probably building the next crossing out of railroad ties. Friends at church have built them to drive big tractors over with 3 or 4 6x6 railroad ties (our stream is only about 6' wide, as was theirs). I was planning on going with 4 or 5 ties and to buy one of those extender gizmos for the 3ph to lift them and to position them on the other side. Tie them together with some 2x6s, etc.

Throughout 2019, our old piled-up-and-cemented-together stuff over the 5 or 6 six inch PVC pipes has worked fine. Normally flow only takes a little over one pipe's worth. Gotta occasionally stir a stick in front of the pipes and maybe shovel out some of the goo upstream. Wife does that now.

Ralph

 

[ovrszd]

And a double wall plastic culvert will flow more water then a similar sized corrugated metal culvert due to the plastic being "slipperier" than the metal and the inside of the plastic culvert being smooth rather than ribbed.

Aaron Z

Yep, at least one size larger.

 

[ovrszd]

You have solid bedrock?

Clean off the bedrock, spread the stream flow over a larger area and drive through it.

That's the simplest plan!!!

Makes the steep bank harder to climb but otherwise is the best fix if the bedrock is solid!!!

 

[Peter 315]

Up here they made the farms put in bridges no more crossing thru the water

 

[ovrszd]

Up here they made the farms put in bridges no more crossing thru the water

Yeah, it's okay for the city folk to boat on the lakes and rivers, dumping their trash in the water, using it for a bathroom, etc., but it's not okay for a farmer to drive his tractor across the water.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Lots of great appreciated ideas. It used to be that way, fording the creek, but no stone or gravel so it got slippery and muddy.
I was trying to utilize what I have. That creek originates at a spring about 1/4m (1300ft or so) upstream, then another spring after crossing.
Railroad ballast is o.k. except like driving on baseballs going uphill.
Maybe best there if I have ballast 1 or 2 layers deep? Then cross creek bed.
It may be better if I use that pipe upstream for another crossing. There is a road through woods parallel to creek, level with other side.
Problem is ground level to creek bottom is about 8ft down and about 20ft across.
3ft pipe by using flow calculations should be more than enough to handle it.
Horses make a mess also especially after rains making mud, heavy hooves.

 

[EddieWalker]

After cleaning out all the material in the creek and getting it down to solid bedrock, I think I would place the culvert where I wanted it, Drill some holes and install half inch or bigger rebar outside of the pipe on both ends, and pour concrete walls to hold the culvert and fill material in place.

 

[Shopmaster]

I hate to say it, but I think your efforts will be futile. I'd be shocked if 3 -36" culverts could handle that much flow during a flood. What will likely happen with the one culvert you have is it will over top and then erode along each side. I would consider articulated concrete block mats, or some reno mattress using the rock you already have. Or pony up for an old railroad flat car and build a bridge.

 

[ovrszd]

Boy, the cost escalated quick huh.

 

[Peter 315]

Boy, the cost escalated quick huh.

Yes it did I will draw up a work change order send it off to the architect, project manager , and the foreman should be good to go in a week.....:laughing:

 

[Fuddy1952]

Right now I have strep throat and the flu so I can't do anything for a week. I did remove old pipes from crossing Sunday, down to solid bedrock, RR ballast I spread more on other side so no mud.
I'll fix it better in a week.
Upstream I found perfect spot for the pipe. I measured and trees either side about 14 ft. apart and downhill only about 3 ft. to top of pipe. Plenty of dirt around so I think it will work out ok.
I've been there after a heavy rain and I'm sure the 36" pipe will handle it.

 

[ovrszd]

Right now I have strep throat and the flu so I can't do anything for a week. I did remove old pipes from crossing Sunday, down to solid bedrock, RR ballast I spread more on other side so no mud.
I'll fix it better in a week.
Upstream I found perfect spot for the pipe. I measured and trees either side about 14 ft. apart and downhill only about 3 ft. to top of pipe. Plenty of dirt around so I think it will work out ok.
I've been there after a heavy rain and I'm sure the 36" pipe will handle it.

Sorry you are under the weather.

Sounds like you've got a good place for the pipe!!!