CK30 Front end loader not lifting heavy loads

[DOCatRU]

Hi folks:

My 2008 CK 30 with 760 hours is having trouble lifting a pallet of firewood. This is a task that it used to do routinely with ease. The loader can still lift two 12-14 foot logs (must weigh 200-300 lbs total). It can also raise and lower through the complete range of motion.

A few weeks back, the joy stick would not move forward or back until the tractor warmed up. While I pushed hard on the stick I never forced it to move. Once the tractor warmed up, the joy stick would move ok.

Today, I started the tractor (25 degrees outside). The joy stick move fine. I moved a couple of large oak and maple logs. Cut and split the logs onto the new pallet. When I tried to lift the pallet it the side to side joy stick motion tilted the pallet, but the front and back would not lift it.

I called the nearest Kioti dealership (one hour away). They were helpful and suggested that the problem might be that this model had plastic ball tips inside the joy stick may have gotten loose. A rebuild kit with new all metal balls and triangular fixture is available for $65.

I can understand how this might be the problem, but am puzzled how if the ball tip was loose of broken that the loader could still lift a couple of hundred pounds, but not lift the 800 or so pounds of a pallet load.

Can anyone confirm the diagnosis or suggest another solution to this problem? You folks have always been great in helping me solve maintenance/repair problems and I greatly appreciate the help.

regards,

DOC

 

[justman777]

Does the engine bog down when it stops lifting? I'm not a hydraulic expert, but I think as long as the valve was open, it should continue to lift until the pressure exceeds the bypass pressure relief valve setting.

Also, I seem to recall someone saying water had got down in their loader control valve assembly and it had froze it up. You could try heating the valve assembly with a hair dryer or heat gun and see if that does anything for you.

 

[4570Man]

Does it still lift at the usual speed? I’m thinking that problem would be pretty easy to diagnose by feel. I don’t know exactly how the relief valve works on that machine but I’m guessing its loosed up and not holding the proper pressure.

 

[lakngulf]

I had a similar situation several years back. Turned out my third valve was stuck and draining all the juice. I moved it and all was fine
Now I still do have my problem of the 3PT system jumping when tractor fresh start and 3PT raised.
Found that if I leave the 3pt raised when storing tractor then does not happen.

Ideas?

 

[justman777]

I had a similar situation several years back. Turned out my third valve was stuck and draining all the juice. I moved it and all was fine
Now I still do have my problem of the 3PT system jumping when tractor fresh start and 3PT raised.
Found that if I leave the 3pt raised when storing tractor then does not happen.

Ideas?

Three point jumping is usually associated with an issue with the MLS, and may be able to solve it by adjusting it a bit. There are a few Youtube videos out there of folks adjusting the MLS.

You may want to start your own thread to capture responses from others.

 

[jabelding]

Plastic or metal balls will not make a difference on lifting capacity. What you need to do is check the hydraulic pressure on your loader. It should be around 2300psi when deadheaded on a gauge do a forum search and you should be able to find some pictures of someone doing it. basically just remove one of the hyd quick disconnects on the loader put a gauge on a mating qd and install it then run the leaver that direction. If it is low it can be adjusted with the pressure relief valve on the loader valve.

 

[DOCatRU]

Plastic or metal balls will not make a difference on lifting capacity. What you need to do is check the hydraulic pressure on your loader. It should be around 2300psi when deadheaded on a gauge do a forum search and you should be able to find some pictures of someone doing it. basically just remove one of the hyd quick disconnects on the loader put a gauge on a mating qd and install it then run the leaver that direction. If it is low it can be adjusted with the pressure relief valve on the loader valve.

Thank you for the suggestion of checking the pressure. I'll do that. I have to admit, the Kioti dealer's suggestion didn't make sense since the tractor could lift 200-300 lb, but not the normal 800 lb (or so) pallet.

I'll search the forum for checking the hydraulic pressure.

DOC

 

[Billrog]

Are you certain the auxiliary leaver isn't engaged ?

 

[DOCatRU]

Are you certain the auxiliary leaver isn't engaged ?

Billrog" I'm not certain what you mean about the auxiliary lever being engaged?

DOC

 

[DOCatRU]

Hi folks:

I am looking to buy a hydraulic test kit to test the PSI of the loader line.

Amazon.com: Measureman Portable Excavator Hydraulic Pressure Test Coupling Kit, Including 6 Test Couplings, 3 Pressure Gauges, 2 Test Hoses for Excavator Construction Machinery: Industrial & Scientific

Does anyone know the size of the quick attach fitting on the FEL? I don't want to buy a set and not have the correct fitting.

Thanks,

DOC

 

[747driver]

Here is where I bought my hyd pressure test gauge. Ken's Bolt on Grab Hooks <<Hydraulic Tools>> You have to look at the chart and determine what size fitting you have. Very nice gauge !

 

[MichiganIron]

Before you spend money on parts and pieces, we would recommend you do a simple 'Leak Down" test on the Front Loader. The procedure is as follows:

Park the tractor and set the brake
Raise the loader with the bucket level about 4 feet off the ground
Shut down the tractor
Put about 200lbs in the bucket
Measure the "stick-out" of the boom and bucket cylinders and record.
Measure the 'Stick-out" every 15 minutes for one hour

The nest step is a little tougher because the loader will pressure lock. You will need a way to lift the boom the release the pressure lock.

Repeat the above procedure with the loader "un-plugged" from the tractor valve.

If you record leak downs in excess of 1/4" for 15 minutes, you have a Cylinder Seal or Valve Spool issue. So.. that is why you do the second test with the loader unplugged from the tractor. If you experience the same "leak-down" during the second test, you have isolated the problem to the Cylinder Seals. Replace the Cylinder Seals. If you do not experience excessive leak down in either test, then pressure test the hydraulic system. Do the Leak Down test first.

Hope this helps,

Bob

 

[SSdoxie]

Billrog" I'm not certain what you mean about the auxiliary lever being engaged?

DOC

Billrog is referring to Rear Hydraulics if equipped (hydraulic couplers at rear of tractor) look at the lever on right hand side of the seat in slot marked A & B and make sure the lever is NOT locked into one of those positions.

 

[DOCatRU]

Bob:

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the tests. I'll give them a try. I should be able to lift the bucket and boom with the hydraulic hoses detached by using a winch or come-a-long.

This past summer while installing a walk way with some scrap marble blocks I noticed that with the tractor off and the loader holding a marble block aloft that after a period of time I heard a creak or a tick from the loader and the bucket dropped a fraction of an inch. Perhaps that is another indicator that is similar to the "leak down" test.

Are leaking seals a common problem? The tractor only has 760 hours, although I do use the loader to lift a lot of heavy firewood.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

DOC

 

[4570Man]

Before you spend money on parts and pieces, we would recommend you do a simple 'Leak Down" test on the Front Loader. The procedure is as follows:

Park the tractor and set the brake
Raise the loader with the bucket level about 4 feet off the ground
Shut down the tractor
Put about 200lbs in the bucket
Measure the "stick-out" of the boom and bucket cylinders and record.
Measure the 'Stick-out" every 15 minutes for one hour

The nest step is a little tougher because the loader will pressure lock. You will need a way to lift the boom the release the pressure lock.

Repeat the above procedure with the loader "un-plugged" from the tractor valve.

If you record leak downs in excess of 1/4" for 15 minutes, you have a Cylinder Seal or Valve Spool issue. So.. that is why you do the second test with the loader unplugged from the tractor. If you experience the same "leak-down" during the second test, you have isolated the problem to the Cylinder Seals. Replace the Cylinder Seals. If you do not experience excessive leak down in either test, then pressure test the hydraulic system. Do the Leak Down test first.

Hope this helps,

Bob

Your test is inclusive. The loader would leak faster with bad cylinder seals but it can’t leak at all unplugged unless fluid is spilling out the gland seal or hoses.

 

[jabelding]

Your test is inclusive. The loader would leak faster with bad cylinder seals but it can’t leak at all unplugged unless fluid is spilling out the gland seal or hoses.

Agreed cylinder rod going into the cylinder body the fluid has to go somewhere. A slow cylinder leak will not cause a reduction in lifting force only a reduction in hyd pressure will do that.

 

[4570Man]

A slow cylinder leak will not cause a reduction in lifting force only a reduction in hyd pressure will do that.

Agreed. A lot easier test would be to try lifting the front of the tractor off the ground with the loader. If the cylinder seals were leaking that bad it would leak back down almost instantly if it actually lifted it at all. The downside to that test is if the hydraulic pressure is severely compromised it might fail at lifting the front and the seals could be fine.

 

[DOCatRU]

Thanks for all of the feedback, my friends.

I did ask the nearest Kioti dealer about the pressure relief valve. I asked if it was adjustable. Some people suggested that the pressure valve could be adjusted during a pressure test on the hydraulic system.

The Kioti dealer did not know if the pressure relief valve was adjustable and that it was $200 to replace it.

I believe I have two separate issue going on here:

1) the joy stick not wanting to move in cold weather.
2) the reduced lifting power of the loader

Any further thoughts?

 

[4570Man]

It sounds like your dealer doesn’t know squat about the issue. Is your loader a cable operated unit? Maybe it’s freezing up in cold weather.

 

[JoelD]

If bad cyl seal the rod piston will pass through the oil with the oil going around the piston’s seals. Don’t need external leak for piston to pass through the oil if the piston is not sealing to cyl walls. My first guess would be piston seal, unlikely both pistons so not sure if you see some sort of twist? Hard to use stick is interesting, from my experience it’s been either ice or leaking seal in valve body which filled my bottom cap with oil and was pushing up on spool valve and also showed ad aggressive leaking oil onto ground. I’d think piston seal more likely than spool valve. Relief valve could also cause but would effect curl and lift as I’d expect on same relief valve?