CK30 Front end loader not lifting heavy loads

[4570Man]

If bad cyl seal the rod piston will pass through the oil with the oil going around the piston’s seals. Don’t need external leak for piston to pass through the oil if the piston is not sealing to cyl walls.

I used to be of the same belief but that’s incorrect. The barrel is completely full of oil and you’re trying to stick a rod in which displaces more oil. It can’t happen without pushing oil somewhere. Demonstrate your theory by filling a glass completely full of water and sticking your hand in it without spilling any. Hint it’s going to end with a wet counter.

 

[MichiganIron]

Do the leak down test. This test will indicate bad cylinder seals. Due to the volumetric difference between the piston and rod sides of the cylinder, the test will show bad seals. We do this test always as our first step for trouble shooting lifting capacity problems. 9 times out of 10, it is bad cylinder seals.

Just saying...

 

[4570Man]

Do the leak down test. This test will indicate bad cylinder seals. Due to the volumetric difference between the piston and rod sides of the cylinder, the test will show bad seals. We do this test always as our first step for trouble shooting lifting capacity problems. 9 times out of 10, it is bad cylinder seals.

Just saying...

Your test is a lot of work and wouldn’t work. Lift the front end of the tractor up instead. If the seals are leaking it will allow the tractor to leak back to the ground pretty rapidly. Doing the test your way fluid must be displaced which it can’t be.

 

[MichiganIron]

This is the KIOTI Techincal recommended test for lack of lifting performance. We do it all the time, works great. The front and back side of a cylinder has a volumetric difference due to the rod that WILL allow fluid to escape from one side of the cylinder to the other if the seals are bad.

We're just trying to help. This is America...we can all decide what we want to believe......

 

[4570Man]

This is the KIOTI Techincal recommended test for lack of lifting performance. We do it all the time, works great. The front and back side of a cylinder has a volumetric difference due to the rod that WILL allow fluid to escape from one side of the cylinder to the other if the seals are bad.

We're just trying to help. This is America...we can all decide what we want to believe......

Leaking piston seals will no doubt make the loader leak down faster. A lot less fluid has to leak past the valve that way and it’s under higher pressure. But with all the hoses unplugged it would stay up forever unless it’s leaking fluid on the ground somewhere. Visualize the simpler picture with just a bucket of water that’s filled completely full. Now stick your arm in it without spilling a drop. Hint your arm is going to displace water and push it over the sides and spill it.

 

[MichiganIron]

Not true...the fluid will just displace one side of the piston to the other. We aren't adding any displacement.

Best of luck

 

[4570Man]

Not true...the fluid will just displace one side of the piston to the other. We aren't adding any displacement.

Best of luck

The rod displaces fluid. The other side of the cylinder is already full. You’re attempting to push the rod into a container that’s already full and won’t compress without spilling fluid. It can’t happen.

 

[Amvcane]

What is the theory of operation of a check valve on a hydraulic top link?

 

[MichiganIron]

The rod displaces fluid. The other side of the cylinder is already full. You’re attempting to push the rod into a container that’s already full and won’t compress without spilling fluid. It can’t happen.

Wonder why backhoes will leek down all the way to the floor if left on the stabilizers after removing them from the tractor ??

 

[4570Man]

If there was no leaks they wouldn’t. You said yourself there’s a volume difference. You’re trying to shove a larger container into a smaller container. How’s it gonna fit? A cylinder can extend like the stabilizer leaking down because the rod is moving out of the barrel and the volume inside the cylinder is decreasing. The rod cannot move into the cylinder.

 

[JoelD]

Hmmmm, if no leaks we are saying no air nor oil could allow for movement of piston and rod one way or the other?

Leaking piston seals would just allow flow of oil past piston when circuit is open?

Interesting lesson.

 

[4570Man]

Hmmmm, if no leaks we are saying no air nor oil could allow for movement of piston and rod one way or the other?

Leaking piston seals would just allow flow of oil past piston when circuit is open?

Interesting lesson.

The rod can be pulled out of the cylinder because the volume inside of the cylinder would be increasing when that happens. Which is why I suggested lifting the front wheels of the tractor with the loader. If the piston seals were leaking bad enough to make any difference the tractor would settle back to the ground pretty quick. The rod cannot be pushed into a cylinder without loosing fluid somewhere. Rather it goes back through the valve, leaks out of a hose somewhere or leaks out the gland seal. Both sides of the cylinder are already full and pushing the rod in takes up space that’s not there to take up. Anyone that says otherwise go fill up a glass completely full with water and stick your hand in it without spilling any water. The theory is that the fluid from the barrel end of the cylinder bypasses the seal and goes into the rod end of the cylinder. That can’t happen because the barrel end holds more fluid and the rod end was already full to begin with. How are you going to put more fluid in less space that was already full when you started? A leaky piston seal could cause loader valve to leak down faster.

 

[JoelD]

Wouldn’t there be airlock if air couldn’t get in??

 

[4570Man]

Wouldn’t there be airlock if air couldn’t get in??

It would pull a vacuum which would make some resistance but not a lot. Have you ever pulled out a syringe with your finger over the end and let it snap back down?

 

[JoelD]

Yup. Was thinking that if piston seal failed, could you pull piston through the oil or would the lack of anything flowing to fill the void left by the rod volume leaving the cyl prevent the rod from being pulled out?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Hi folks:

My 2008 CK 30 with 760 hours is having trouble lifting a pallet of firewood. This is a task that it used to do routinely with ease. The loader can still lift two 12-14 foot logs (must weigh 200-300 lbs total). It can also raise and lower through the complete range of motion.

regards,

DOC

Another thing to keep in mind is, logs roll to the back of the forks, the pallet spreads the load out to the end of the forks, where your tractor has LESS lifting power.

SO, it will pick up heavier logs than it will lift a pallet of wood.

SR

 

[4570Man]

Another thing to keep in mind is, logs roll to the back of the forks, the pallet spreads the load out to the end of the forks, where your tractor has LESS lifting power.

SO, it will pick up heavier logs than it will lift a pallet of wood.

SR

It wouldn’t take much of a pallet of firewood to overwhelm the 1500 pound rated loader and anything I’d consider a log would weigh way more than 150 pounds in a 14’ chunk but he did say the loader would lift it before.

 

[DOCatRU]

Folks:

Many thanks for all of the advice. I did the leak test and it was fine!

Therefore, I did a little experiment today and I have to admit I am red faced with embarrassment. Over the past couple of years my firewood logs were mostly: box elder, maple, white birch and beech.

I changed suppliers and this year my firewood log pile is made up of mostly black, white and green ash, some cherry, maple and oak. I checked the relative weights of the various species and you guessed it: a full pallet of the wood I am cutting this year weighs about 25-30% MORE than what I was moving last year.

No wonder the tractor can't handle a full pallet. I feel like a dumb *****! for troubling you all.

However, the other problem still remains:

When it is below freezing the joystick is frozen. Some people suggested that there was water in the mechanism.

On this tractor the joy stick is connected to the hydraulic valve underneath by what appear to be cables. The joy stick boot is cracked. While the tractor is stored in an open sided shed, it has been operated in the rain.

What do you suggest I do to remediate the issue with the frozen joystick in cold weather?

Thanks a bunch.

DOC

 

[justman777]

Heat gun or hair dryer to dry it out, then replace the boot.

 

[jimglassford]

It is very possible you have moisture in the cables and they are freezing. Don't force the joystick. Frozen cables need to thaw. If the boot leaks, replace it.