Oil vs propane heat

[RichZ]

We are finally downsizing our 102 acre farm to a smaller property. The place we are considering apparently has propane heat (we're going to look at it for the first time on Saturday). It has a vertical propane tank, but the stove is electric, so I assume it is propane heat. I've never had propane heat. How is it efficiently compared to oil heat? It has forced air heat. If oil is much cheaper, can the system be converted to oil? I assume all the duct work would still be good, you would just have to replace boilers, right? Would it be worth it to do that? What about renting vs buying the propane tank? I don't know if the current owners rent the tank. We will still be staying in upstate eastern New York, right over the border from Vermont.

Thanks!!!!!

 

[LouNY]

Oil fired furnaces have a bit more maintenance then propane,
is it a boiler or a hot air furnace? duct work sounds like a furnace,
Propane from what I have seen in this area has quite a fluctuation in price.
There is more btu in a gallon of oil then propane it will take quite a bit more propane then oil in gallons for the same heat;

91,600 BTU/gallon for propane
140,000 BTU/gallon for heating oil

propane units can have higher efficiency then oil to offset some of the higher useage.

A rental tank locks a person into using that tank owner for their fuel suppler and pricing,
Just as with oil a larger tank allows seasonal filling and better pricing.

 

[Tomtint]

We have had both, Our propane heat as forced hot air...or "forced hot dust" I will never have that again living in the North East.. We. had radiant by propane and it was brutally expensive and inefficient. Now we went back to baseboard heat by oil and it is relatively efficient. ..my choice would be this again when we build again.

 

[CobyRupert]

Oil fired furnaces have a bit more maintenance then propane,
is it a boiler or a hot air furnace? duct work sounds like a furnace,
Propane from what I have seen in this area has quite a fluctuation in price.
There is more btu in a gallon of oil then propane it will take quite a bit more propane then oil in gallons for the same heat;

91,600 BTU/gallon for propane
140,000 BTU/gallon for heating oil

propane units can have higher efficiency then oil to offset some of the higher useage.

A rental tank locks a person into using that tank owner for their fuel suppler and pricing,
Just as with oil a larger tank allows seasonal filling and better pricing.

:thumbsup:
I've tried to do the math before....and throw electricity in the mix to compare. It turns into a head scratcher, even if you could predict (gas/oil/electric) pricing for more than a couple weeks.
Then it comes down to "estimating" (guessing) efficiencies.
Online sources say propane "can be" up to 98% efficient, oil furnaces maxes out at 87%. What your real numbers are, is only a guess.

Then trying to compare electric (1kw-hr = 3412.14 btu or 1kw = 3412.14 btu/hr, etc..) one can complicate it more.

 

[LouNY]

If you really want to get to head scratching the following calculator allows you to input the prices of fuel the efficiency and see the results per million btu.
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating | Coalpail.com

At what I paid for fuel oil, coal and electric, this fall;
the coal came in the best at $1540 per million btu,
electricity on the heat pump 2nd at $1730 and
#2 fuel oil at $2740.

So for me the mini-splits will be doing the most heating till we get down to highs in the 40's then I'll light off the coal burner,
and the oil boiler will be on hot standby mainly because it also makes my hot water thru a boiler mate water heater.

 

[fried1765]

If you really want to get to head scratching the following calculator allows you to input the prices of fuel the efficiency and see the results per million btu.
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating | Coalpail.com

At what I paid for fuel oil, coal and electric, this fall;
the coal came in the best at $1540 per million btu,
electricity on the heat pump 2nd at $1730 and
#2 fuel oil at $2740.

So for me the mini-splits will be doing the most heating till we get down to highs in the 40's then I'll light off the coal burner,
and the oil boiler will be on hot standby mainly because it also makes my hot water thru a boiler mate water heater.

My type of heat is Florida!
November 1st to April 30th.
Very efficient!

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I prefer propane...

Less maintenance, the furnaces seem more reliable and I have the option to have a propane water heater, cook stove and dryer. Also you can have a hook up for a grill outside too, if you want.

Then there's the propane powered generator, if that's your thing.

One thing is FOR SURE, I wouldn't want to have to depend on electric heat!!

SR

 

[LouNY]

When I got remarried 4 years ago we went to Florida that winter for awhile,
that was too much for me, you enjoy it I have absolutely no desire to go there again.

 

[CalG]

If you do heat with gas, look into the many buyers cooperatives in the North East. (I know there is one near you ;-)

Gas prices can be considerably less than the spot price.

 

[jbrumberg]

"... It turns into a head scratcher,"- CobyRupert I agree; too many guesstimates for me.

Lou- Thanks for the link. We have passive solar; a mini-split HVAC, propane for the central (baseboard) heating, hot water, clothes dryer, and cook stove; a wood stove; and a 11.83kWp solar array which offsets the electricity costs. It's really hard for me to wrap my head around this, but the mini-splits + wood heat seem to be the least costly to operate until it gets really cold.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I wouldn't want anything Propane. I just like the flexability of oil. If push comes to shove, I can buy it anywhere and fill up my tank. I like that. Or, if there was a supply issue, you can call every oil dealer around to see if you can get some. Nobody will fill someone elses propane tank.

 

[jbrumberg]

".... Nobody will fill someone elses propane tank."- IT

^^^^ We are locked in a "loveless" marriage with our propane supplier.

It's too bad for us that the solar panels came "late in the game." I would do a whole lot of things differently now.

 

[LouNY]

Years ago around here the various fuel oil (diesel, kerosene and #2 home oil) would provide above ground tanks "free" also as long as you bought your fuel from them,
they are the same way many vendors would not fill a competitors tank, a few would but if the supplier found out they would come take the tank back.

Thats why all my fuel tanks buried and above ground are "my" tanks.

I had one go around with a propane supplier and "their" tanks and "my" fuel, ended up running them off the place and when the tank was empty I hauled it to the road side and told them to come get the ---- thing.
We don't do business together anymore.

 

[Sigarms]

I wouldn't want anything Propane. I just like the flexability of oil. If push comes to shove, I can buy it anywhere and fill up my tank. I like that. Or, if there was a supply issue, you can call every oil dealer around to see if you can get some. Nobody will fill someone elses propane tank.

It all comes down to where you live.

You live in NC, it's a toss up. You think you can buy oil anwhere in NC, you got another thing coming..

Personally, LP gas heating units are more easily serviced IMO over oil.

Lot of HVAC guys in NC will even tell you that they don't service oil. My fathers oil company in Pa stopped servicing his oil boiler because their service tech retired.

I can tell you this for a fact on oil furnaces... from 2004 through 2007 there was a gradual reduced amount of oil furnaces made and sold in the US. In those 3 years production dropped by close 30% and I don't think they picked back up. The reality is most likely within the next 50 years, oil appliances will be a thing of the past.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Was glad to get rid of my dirty oil burner. I would go propane.

NY has lots of propane under it if the state would just allow it to be extracted.

 

[jnyost]

Propane is awful convenient with less maintenance. It can also be used for other appliances, if wanted. You can pipe it out for your grill, propane stove, fireplace insert, dryer, etc.... I'd stick with propane if it were me.

 

[BoylermanCT]

CT requires all underground oil tanks be removed when you sell your house. Now we use 250 or 330 gal tanks in the basement or some have them outside. Heating oil outside of NY and New England is rare.

 

[Sigarms]

Heating oil outside of NY and New England is rare.

Big in Pennsylvania and more than you would think in North Western North Carolina. I replaced my fathers oil boiler back in the early 90's, and that's what's still there.

I joke with guys HVAC guys in NC that plumbers in Pa generally are heating companies due to hydronic heating, which oil does play a big part in, whereas in NC, plumbers rarely touch heating systems.

 

[RalphVa]

We're all electric here in central Va. In Cooperstown, you could go geothermal for even more efficiency. The multiplier for heat/kw is about 3/1 for most heat pumps and closer to 4/1 for ductless and geothermal. With geothermal, you can also get "free" hot water heating. Have a diesel (same as fuel oil) generator 12.5kw whole house backup. It runs the upstairs heat pump and basement ductless units plus hot water and drier when main electricity is out.

I worked with propane in most of our lube processing units for 31 years and know about its safety issues. Do not want it on my property. It pools, unlike NG which will go UP and out and away from trouble.

Ralph

 

[3gunr]

Just filled my propane tank last week ,paid a buck a gallon. try to get oil for that. if you dont want to rent a tank then just buy it , then shop around for the best price.