Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

Smart money is saying it's going to be at least 5 years before there is another significant advancement in the technology that will make a difference...

The issue may be in the fact that other energy tech (fuel cell etc.) could surpass battery tech in a similar time frame...

More than one game in town.....

Want zero emissions ? Crack water, burn Hydrogen, H20 out the tailpipe........ Wash/Rinse/Repeat......

Rgds, D.

 

[4570Man]

As long or short as you would like to leave it after your retrofit it with an electric motor out of electric Ford truck headed you way.

Zero Emissions in EV's is only referring to tail pipe emissions which are Zero because there is NO Tail Pipe. If the driver still is farting then the truck has green house emissions.

Electric vehicles are far from zero emissions. You’ve got emissions for mining for the battery’s. You’ve got emissions from electric generation. You’ve got emissions from building the car itself. So if the tailpipe on a Diesel engine is long enough that you can’t see it then it should be zero emissions too..

 

[Agvg]

EV and winter is not a big problem.

 

[radios1]

nuclear might be the way to go, if the fuel lasts 20 years, and has no emissions, why not?..

 

[airbiscuit]

nuclear might be the way to go, if the fuel lasts 20 years, and has no emissions, why not?..

Can we store the nuclear waste on your property?

I would actually okay with nuclear power IF we had a safe and designated nuclear repository. Alas, we do not.

 

[Jstpssng]

Good thread, and I've learned a lot from it. I've long known that China is going to lead someday. Their human and natural resources dwarf ours and while their people are hungry, we are too accustomed to our standard of living. Their environmental standards are where we were 70 years ago... and we've been busy for 40+ years transferring our problems and factories overseas. Someday we may actually have a true "World Economy", yet I doubt that it will happen in my lifetime.

Getting back to the original topic; despite recent technological gains and political opinions there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. The population is still increasing at exponential rates, and that is what's driving our environmental problems.

 

[radios1]

Can we store the nuclear waste on your property?

I would actually okay with nuclear power IF we had a safe and designated nuclear repository. Alas, we do not.

Yucca Mountain is where high level nuclear waste is now stored. you would be shocked to learn that both uranium and plutonium are safe if not inhaled or ingested into the body. skin stops alpha particles from penetration. as does paper and air..

 

[airbiscuit]

From YuccaMountain.org:
"Today the Yucca Mountain site has been abandoned and nothing exists but a boarded up exploratory tunnel; there are no waste disposal tunnels, receiving and handling facilities, and the waste containers and transportation casks have yet to be developed. Moreover, there is no railroad to the site, and the cost to build a railroad through Nevada could exceed $3 billion. Today, the only thing that actually exists at Yucca Mountain is single 5 mile exploratory tunnel. "

From Wikipedia:
"In the meantime, most nuclear power plants in the United States have resorted to the indefinite on-site dry cask storage of waste in steel and concrete cask"

 

[Gale Hawkins]

EV and winter is not a big problem.

I read where someone built an electric plane and shipped it to the south pole for testing so clearly cold is doable. Not sure how high the plane is designed to fly but the higher the colder it gets.

One thing I never knew about EV's is how Tesla owns that market and seems to be pulling ahead more each month. Their lead in technology and software may rule for many years to come. The old line car companies seem to be only retrofitting ICE chassis with electric motors. On top of that Tesla is patenting the technology that may very well become the industry standards and the other guys will being paying royalties forever. Any company that do not do their batteries themselves do not have a chance at long term success if the 100+ year history of the automotive industry tells us anything.

The below opened my eyes on the EV trend and trend setters.

Tesla Model 3 Is 219's Best Selling Vehicle In Dutch Lands | CleanTechnica

 

[Agvg]

Nissan/Renault are big players in the EV field, VW/Audi are starting to move and has the e-Golf that sells very well, BMW has sold very good of its small EV, so Tesla will meet stiff competition. Here in Norway Tesla have had very big problems keeping up with service and repairs, and may be a bit more to desire for fit, finish and quality control.

 

[sd455dan]

I read where someone built an electric plane and shipped it to the south pole for testing so clearly cold is doable. Not sure how high the plane is designed to fly but the higher the colder it gets.

One thing I never knew about EV's is how Tesla owns that market and seems to be pulling ahead more each month. Their lead in technology and software may rule for many years to come. The old line car companies seem to be only retrofitting ICE chassis with electric motors. On top of that Tesla is patenting the technology that may very well become the industry standards and the other guys will being paying royalties forever. Any company that do not do their batteries themselves do not have a chance at long term success if the 100+ year history of the automotive industry tells us anything.

The below opened my eyes on the EV trend and trend setters.

Tesla Model 3 Is 219's Best Selling Vehicle In Dutch Lands | CleanTechnica

interesting article



Tesla may be pulling ahead in China


Tesla Model 3 (made-in-China?) spotted on new Gigafactory 3 test track - Electrek

as body in white model 3's are being tested at the Shanghai Giga factory,
6 days ago a model 3 was spotted on Tesla's test track and rumors persist that the Shanghai plant may be going into early production on October 14th.
Tesla is also the ONLY wholly owned foreign car maker In China...

 

[Agvg]

Wondering if Toyota will be able to turn around, very negative to EV, negative to plugin hybrids and trying for a long time argue that Toyota hybrids where self charging as it was a good thing. Mazda and Honda is coming very late to the game to.

 

[sd455dan]

Wondering if Toyota will be able to turn around, very negative to EV, negative to plugin hybrids and trying for a long time argue that Toyota hybrids where self charging as it was a good thing. Mazda and Honda is coming very late to the game to.

Yes, coincidentally they do seem to be warming up to PHEV's if not full electrics

Toyota announced a couple days ago that they are adding a PHEV version of the hybrid RAV 4 and will debut it at the LA autoshow on November 20th. Slated as a 2021 model

 

[Agvg]

Is the EV world evolving to fast for the very conservative and at times ridiculously slow to adopt Toyota? How is GM, Ford and FCA doing on EV?
Fiat seems to struggle here in Europe on EV and do they have the money to keep up?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

On the bright side for the consumer is when the tipping point occurs there are going to be a ton of very nice and cheap ICE based vehicles. If gas will hover around $2 a gallon this combo will be a good option for people are not driving 30K miles annually.

Nissan is talking about a new Cross Over EV in 2021 that will be fully self driving on interstates from entrance ramp to exit ramp, do 0-60 in 5 seconds with a 300 mile range. I bet they are hoping to hang on to their old Leaf customers that are looking at Tesla.

The EV world may get turned upside down with a low tech China option for around $10-$15K price with good range after they meet home market demands. India has a $9K option being sold in India. It is from a major Indian company geared to first time car buyers. Tesla is going to leave a gaping hole at the bottom tier. Not sure what the impact on the dealers will be but I bet there will only be a few dealers compared to being in every town today. High margin vehicles may not be out there for many dealers. Nissan is already voicing that the loss of service work on the ICE based cars is going to cut into their bottom line so they have to find another value added service(s) to offer. Tesla is getting into insuring the cars they are selling I read.

Brave new world will be good for some and take others out of the game I expect.

 

[Egon]

Can we store the nuclear waste on your property?

I would actually okay with nuclear power IF we had a safe and designated nuclear repository. Alas, we do not.

If only the scientist would have control of the spent fuel disposition! Alas, the Politicians are in control so there is no control!

 

[Egon]

Good thread, and I've learned a lot from it. I've long known that China is going to lead someday. Their human and natural resources dwarf ours and while their people are hungry, we are too accustomed to our standard of living. Their environmental standards are where we were 70 years ago... and we've been busy for 40+ years transferring our problems and factories overseas. Someday we may actually have a true "World Economy", yet I doubt that it will happen in my lifetime.

Getting back to the original topic; despite recent technological gains and political opinions there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. The population is still increasing at exponential rates, and that is what's driving our environmental problems.

Consider what happens when China becomes the leading country and we become the cheap labour manufacturer?

 

[Agvg]

EV will seriously reduce revenue for dealers, talked to one that sells Hyundai and KIA and there are as expected almost no money to be made on service, some tires, and some brake jobs on the older EV because salt on the roads and little use.

Gas stations are working on ideas how to be charging stations, they live of selling food today so charging time might be a boost for those who has the space and right location.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Consider what happens when China becomes the leading country and we become the cheap labour manufacturer?

Egon there is nothing cheap when it comes to labor in the USA and China knows this.

Kenya holds third highest Chinese debt in Africa - Capital Business

As you can read China is in the process of owning control of Africa though debt that is mainly to build infrastructure so China can move their manufacturing to third world countries as they move into the role of the most powerful nation. Interesting Musk of Tesla hails from South Africa by way of Canada and Tesla is the only car maker operating in China that is not in part owned by Chinese as I have read. When China becomes the main source of Tesla vehicles for the rest of the world it will just put them in a better position for world power especially if Musk moves his space ambitions development to China like he has done with Tesla.

 

[3930dave]

Supply-side has been on my mind, from well before EVs hit the news. Came across this yesterday..... worth a thread of it's own, and didn't want to clutter up Gale's thread here.

WARNING: my link to the Sun article contains references to Canadian polly tics - do not read then operate heavy or dangerous machinery ! It's two links away, so don't go there by accident ! :laughing:

The relevant (but buried in the article) point - Canada was recently ranked as 69'th in terms of Quality of Electricity supply.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/418367-quality-electricity-supply.html

Won't mean much (at the moment) to many, but I find that ranking startling, and intriguing, as this is the next level of concern after Grid Capacity....

Rgds, D.