4320 water pukmp failure

[logcabin]

I went to change out the water pump on my 2006, 4320 JD today. I spoke with a mechanic at a dealership here in Vermont, Yandows in Ferrisburg. I have the utmost respect, been in business a long time. He cautioned me that there is a potential of the timing cover being damaged from the bearings impeller, depending how loose it is. Now, I am a fanatic about wearing ear protection, consequently I never heard any type of noise. Once he told me this, I started it up and listened. Yup, there's a noise. I shut it right down. I ended up pulling the radiator to access the pump easier. Got the pump off and OMG, where the impeller is, there is a counterbore, and fairly deep into the timing cover. Not changing the pump now, or should I? There were two pieces of impeller in the timing cover. There is 6 fins on the impeller, only one is left, So there is 3 fins missing, where did they go? I called Yandows back and told them what I had found and asked for an estimate. The estimate came in at $3,000.00. Forty hours to repair. Keep in mind I have total respect for this dealer, but this seems like a long time to repair. I guess in this year and model they have to drop the front end, oil pan, etc. to remove the timing cover. Any opinions on time to repair out there? Just curious, thanks in advance.


Dave P. In Vermont

 

[mini14]

If it isn't leaking why are you changing it?

 

[Clint S]

If it isn't leaking why are you changing it?

I am guessing poor cooling . As he said above there is only 1 vane left on the impeller. Pictures would help. My question is would the groove cause any mechanical issues with the new pump installation. I would guess due to cavitation there may be cooling issues or maybe not...

 

[CADplans]

This is a 13 year old tractor,, could you fit a piece of metal in the counterbore area, and weld it in place?

No need to replace the part.

 

[mini14]

I meant the timing cover

 

[logcabin]

Sorry for the delay, TBN wouldn't let me in. Long story, I'm finally in now. I should have been more specific, it is leaking that is why I had to change it. CADplans mentioned about welding a piece around the hole in the timing cover. I was considering trying JB WELD. However, being there is a hole for fluid to get to the pump through the timing cover, the gasket of the new pump is certainly outside the counterbore area, it should not leak with a new pump and gasket?? I know this is probably not the correct way to repair but why do I need to go to the expense of all the labor to replace the timing cover? Amy I missing something here? My real concern is the impeller has six fins, one still on and two I found, what happened to the other three? Must have been ground up, possibly in radiator? I have attached a pic of timing cover and old pump, hopefully it will be viewable. I greatly value any and all opinions. Thank you all so much! Don't want to go to dealer if I don't have to.

 

[Clint S]

Put it together and see. My concern would be turbidity created by the area leading to decreased cooling efficiency. I would be worried JB would break down and contaminate the cooling system or cause pump to fail. Won't know until you try.

 

[logcabin]

Put it together and see. My concern would be turbidity created by the area leading to decreased cooling efficiency. I would be worried JB would break down and contaminate the cooling system or cause pump to fail. Won't know until you try.

Okay, tomorrow morning it goes back together. I will let you know what happens. The missing vanes is still a big concern. Thank you

 

[Quebecguy]

The missing vanes is still a big concern.

Did you buy the tractor new or used? A previous owner might have been fooling around with that water pump.

 

[logcabin]

I purchased this new in 2006.

 

[DonRybak]

I would think that the missing vanes are probably in the block in the water passages. If you run a good flow of water from a hose through the block they might possibly wash out on the ground or to an area around where the water pump goes si that you can reach then to pull them out. Good luck.......Don

 

[logcabin]

I'm certainly no mechanic, to accomplish this do I insert the hose into the upper radiator hose to flush?> Seems lie this is the only place I could put it. Is it also possible they could be in the bottom of the radiator That is a great idea, thank you!!

 

[flyerdan]

Most of the vanes should be in the top tank of the radiator, that's where the pump sends the water. If you have a magnet on a bendable wire, you can probe the area behind the inlet hole on the timing cover, some could have wound up there through gravity.
The cover appears to show rust in the gouge, is this a cast iron (or cast ferrous at least) cover? Most automotive covers are aluminum and suffer far worse from impeller scoring; if you have a steel cover the chances are good that the impeller vanes disintegrated before doing substantial damage.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I once lost all the fins on the cast iron impeller on a 391 Ford. We never did find them and they didn't cause any problems either. They were in the block some place.

 

[logcabin]

flyerdan: I took the radiator and put the top on a clean bucket. I then ran water from the bottom of the radiator, draining into the clean bucket. I ran enough to fill the bucket about 3/4 full. I got another bucket and did the same except this time I filled from the top, and drained from the bottom into the second clean bucket. I also took a magnet and reached into the timing cover. I had very fine filings on the magnet. Did this quite a few times. Each time I had pepper size specks on the magnet. I haven't strained the two buckets yet but I can see quite a bit into the first bucket. I believe you were SPOT ON! I then put everything back together and fired it up. The temperature gauge climbed to just about center, I would say it was normal. I increased the rpm's some and gauge stayed in the same spot. All seemed good. No runs, no drips, and no errors, kinda sounds like the Boston Red Sox this season. I went into the woods and pulled a couple of hitches, everything seemed good. I do want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to me. Information received was extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! Thank you all!!

 

[DEERERUNNER]

I have a 05 4320 and i think i caught mine just in time.

 

[oldtimer 66]

How many hours on your tractor? For everybody's information this forward end cover is made of aluminum. It also houses the engine oil pump. Another thing is that Deere did make a high volume water pump for the 2.44 engine. Not sure if they still do. The impeller dia. was larger on the high volume water pump.

 

[oldtimer 66]

One other thing is that the scoring is on the input side of the of the water pump. Early forward end covers like your's were as cast with a slight crown in that area. Later editions were machined in that area.

 

[DEERERUNNER]

One other thing is that the scoring is on the input side of the of the water pump. Early forward end covers like your's were as cast with a slight crown in that area. Later editions were machined in that area.

My 4320 has 1450 hours. It started making noise last week and i was not sure what it was.