Buying Advice First time on 5 acres - tractor selection?

[mtconnol]

Hi all,

My fiance and I are first-time property owners on 5 acres outside of Bellingham, WA. The property was neglected for a couple seasons, so there is a fair amount of remedial landscaping to do. Here's what we're up against:

• We have a large section of blackberries to cut back / work on eradicating - probably 200' by 100'.
• The 5 acres is mostly rough field / pasture which needs to be bush hogged, except for a smallish front lawn (about 1/6) acre which needs mowing.
• There are several incomplete french drain projects around outbuildings - these were left open, with pipe in place but no gravel. They need completed digging, then backfill with gravel.
• The digging done on the french drain left large piles of earth between buildings, where we'd like it to be flat and perhaps graveled for easy car access.
• We have about 300 feet of gravel driveway in fairly rough repair that should be regraded.
• The area is known to get significant snow at times, and I am wondering in general how to best handle clearing the driveway and walkways between outbuildings (and potentially the barn)
• In the next year we are hoping to add a herd of around 8 sheep, so will be wanting to bring them hay, and move their fences around periodically.
• The property is fairly flat, but contains a lot of lumps and rises.
• There are occasional stumps to pull (at least one dead tree we need to deal with sooner rather than later) and we would like to plant additional trees.

To me, when I look at this list, it seems like we need a tractor. I guess the first question is whether other folks agree on that. We could hire the work out, but when I look at the earthwork especially, it feels like I'd rather put the money into a tractor. So far we have a Stihl Kombi-system for brush cutting, but it feels like no match for the mass quantities of blackberries present.

So I've been looking at Kubota BX and B series machines with loaders and backhoe. Am I barking up the right tree here? How useful would the backhoe be on an ongoing basis? (I've heard that they are small enough to be not so useful.) I hate to get a new machine when so many used ones are floating around, but the financing actually makes it much more approachable for us. I'm mechanically minded (background as an engineer, service my own vehicles, etc) but tractor ownership (as well as property ownership at this scale) is new to both of us.

Questions:

- For the tasks listed, does a tractor cover all my bases? Is it overkill? I get the sense that it's a good 'generalist' tool but not really the best at any of these things (especially clearing snow, perhaps.)

- What sizes and brands should I be looking at? We have good Kubota and John Deere dealers near by, nothing else is super close. I am super turned off by some of the Deere 'held hostage by the software' reports that I've read, but am unclear how relevant they are at this SCUT / CUT scale.

- As complete newbies, what else do we 'not know that we don't know?'

- If we bought a new machine today, what kind of service life could we expect from it if we maintain it properly and house it under cover?

Thanks in advance for helping spend our money! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BRMyers]

You came to the right place, there are a lot of people on here with good information.

One question I have, are you looking for a cab or no cab? It sounds like the winters could be rough, so was curious what your thoughts are on a cab.

Tractor size, my guess is that a compact would be a better fit than a sub. It looks like you have short term needs for FEL and box blade type work, with a long term need for FEL to maintain livestock. The brush hog (rotary mower) of 5 to 6ft range will meet your needs and will be horse power dependent.

From everything I have read on here, spending money on a back hoe is usually better spent on renting a machine and using the extra money to by a little nicer tractor.

As far as brand, that is the Ford Chevy debate. I like Kubota, next person may like John Deere. Once you figure out what you need and what you want, then visit the local dealers, see which tractor you like best and which dealer seems most responsive to you.

 

[Diggin It]

The BH will come in extremely handy for some of the tasks at hand, but what else will you have down the road? I use mine a lot more than I figured I would.

For moving piles of dirt, a tractor is NOT a dozer. You can do serious damage to the loader arms of a small machine by trying to dig solid piles. I've had luck by breaking piles loose with the BH or a tiller, then using the loader to move the loosened dirt.

Can't speak to snow removal since I don't have that task.

Driveway maintenance can be done with a few different rear blade type attachments.

Don't be stuck on Orange paint. Red and Blue are more than capable and will cost less.

 

[mtconnol]

You came to the right place, there are a lot of people on here with good information.

One question I have, are you looking for a cab or no cab? It sounds like the winters could be rough, so was curious what your thoughts are on a cab.
.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I hadn't been considering a cab, mostly because of the extreme cost versus actually being able to 'do more things'. It might depend on the extend of the wintertime duties, which would probably be limited to any snow management and animal chores. So it feels like they wouldn't extend for hours at a time.

 

[TripleR]

You are going to get some more detailed answers than mine and they will be as valid if not more so than mine, as there are so many ways to go. We have SCUTS, CUTs and up to an M8540HDC. You can get by with something like a Kubota B2601 as the smallest, B2650 even better, but no need long term to go bigger, in my opinion at least. You will need to buy or rent a backhoe or excavator; we rent, but in your case I'd buy one.

Now if you have an unlimited budget...

 

[jeff9366]

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to identify potential tractor applications first, then determine bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten flat acres.

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is generally greater than depreciation on a tractor.


I recommend a tractor of 2,500 pounds to 3,000 pounds bare tractor weight with 25-horsepower and a three-range (3) HST transmission.
Tractors with less than 25.5 horsepower are not required to have expensive Tier IV emission controls.
Every tractor manufacturer has a model in this category. Kubota's entry is the L2501.

Most of your tractor applications are ground engagement tasks. The BX is too light for your applications. A 'B' might suffice but a heavier 'L' will be safer for a beginning operator and more robust.

 

[BRMyers]

Thanks for the warm welcome! I hadn't been considering a cab, mostly because of the extreme cost versus actually being able to 'do more things'. It might depend on the extend of the wintertime duties, which would probably be limited to any snow management and animal chores. So it feels like they wouldn't extend for hours at a time.

Here are a few pictures of what I have been able to accomplish with my tractor. Understand I'm a new tractor owner also, purchased mine in May of this year.

 

[jeff9366]

My fiance and I are first-time property owners on 5 acres outside of Bellingham, WA. The property was neglected for a couple seasons, so there is a fair amount of remedial landscaping to do. Here's what we're up against:

• 
  The 5 acres is mostly rough field / pasture which needs to be bush hogged, except for a smallish front lawn (about 1/6) acre which needs mowing.
  [*] We have a large section of blackberries to cut back / work on eradicating - probably 200' by 100'.
  Ratchet Rake bucket attachment for tear down, then 60" Bush Hog to cut residual Himalayan Blackberries to ground level and mulch detritus. Bush Hog when weather will remain dry and sunny for 96 hours, so blackberry mulch drys completely and dies.
  DIRECT SALES: Ratchet Rake, LLC - All Terrain Rake, Snow Edge, Bucket attachment, Loader, Landscape rake, Brush remover, York Rake, Harley Rake, Rock Rake, Tractor rake attachment, Fire prevention,
  
  Crossbow, Rural King Crossroad or Gordon's Brush Killer, all with root killing triclopyr, to be applied to sprouts.
  
  Or fence the sheep so 1/3 of mown blackberries are within the fence. Move fence periodically so sheep browse all Blackberry sprouts over a year.
  
  
  
• There are several incomplete french drain projects around outbuildings - these were left open, with pipe in place but no gravel. They need completed digging, then backfill with gravel.
  How many feet? Dig with a spade. Fill with tractor Front End Loader. (FEL)
  You can easily lift out pipes with chain between the pipe and FEL.
  
  [*] The digging done on the french drain left large piles of earth between buildings, where we'd like it to be flat and perhaps graveled for easy car access.
  [*] We have about 300 feet of gravel driveway in fairly rough repair that should be regraded.
  [*] The property is fairly flat, but contains a lot of lumps and rises.
  Ratchet Rake bucket attachment and backdrag with FEL bucket.
  
  
• The area is known to get significant snow at times, and I am wondering in general how to best handle clearing the driveway and walkways between outbuildings (and potentially the barn)
  Tractor plow or tractor push/snow box on Loader.
  VIDEOS (2): tractor snow push box - YouTube
  tractor snow plow - YouTube
  
  
• In the next year we are hoping to add a herd of around 8 sheep, so will be wanting to bring them hay, and move their fences around periodically.
  Tractor FEL bucket.
  
  
• There are occasional stumps to pull (at least one dead tree we need to deal with sooner rather than later) and we would like to plant additional trees.

Removing stumps larger than 2" to 2-1/2" is not compact tractor work. Stumps <2-1/2" that have been killed with herbicide can be pulled out of the ground using chains to a cross-drawbar with 'hanging tree' on the Three Point Hitch.
MORE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...actor-three-point-hitch-cross.html?highlight=

Bellingham soil is pretty soft in my limited experience. (I have a brother in Bellingham.)
If you are prudent a Bucket Spade bucket attachment is excellent for tree planting.
MORE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/328798-bucket-spade-today-fel-bucket.html?highlight=

To me, when I look at this list, it seems like we need a tractor. YES

So I've been looking at Kubota BX and B series machines with loaders and backhoe. Am I barking up the right tree here? How useful would the backhoe be on an ongoing basis? (I've heard that they are small enough to be not so useful.)
Forget the $7,000 Backhoe. Put $7,000 toward greater tractor weight.

Questions:

I get the sense a tractor is a good 'generalist' tool but not really the best at any of these things, especially clearing snow.
Clearing snow is a common tractor application in the north.

- What sizes and brands should I be looking at? We have good Kubota and John Deere dealers near by, nothing else is super close.
I recommend a tractor of 2,500 pounds to 3,000 pounds bare tractor weight with 25-horsepower and a three-range (3) HST transmission.

Kubota has 50% market share in compact tractors in USA.
Deere has 20% market share in compact tractors in USA.

I am super turned off by some of the Deere 'held hostage by the software' reports that I've read, but am unclear how relevant they are at this SCUT / CUT scale. Not relevant to Deere compact tractors.

- If we bought a new machine today, what kind of service life could we expect from it if we maintain it properly and house it under cover?
Garage your new tractor. Run a small de-humidifier in the garage set to operate at 55% humidity.
Rodents are a hazard to tractor wiring.

According to industry surveys, compact tractors are used an average of sixty engine hours per year in residential applications. A well maintained compact tractor drivetrain should be reliable through 8,000 engine hours. As a new operator you will bend various tractor parts, with FEL most vulnerable, but the drivetrain should be faultless. You will be less likely to bend a heavier tractor made from thicker steel.

MORE: tractor for five acres site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

 

[fried1765]

My fiance and I are first-time property owners on 5 acres outside of Bellingham, WA. The property was neglected for a couple seasons, so there is a fair amount of remedial landscaping to do. Here's what we're up against:

• 
  [*] The 5 acres is mostly rough field / pasture which needs to be bush hogged, except for a smallish front lawn (about 1/6) acre which needs mowing.
  [*] We have a large section of blackberries to cut back / work on eradicating - probably 200' by 100'.
  Five foot Bush Hog plus Ratchet Rake bucket attachment to cut to ground level.
  Crossbow, Rural King Crossroad or Gordon's Brush Killer, all with root killing triclopyr, to be applied to sprouts.
  
  
• There are several incomplete french drain projects around outbuildings - these were left open, with pipe in place but no gravel. They need completed digging, then backfill with gravel.
  How many feet? Dig with a shovel. Fill with tractor Front End Loader. (FEL) You can easily lift out pipes with chain between the pipe and FEL.
  
  [*] The digging done on the french drain left large piles of earth between buildings, where we'd like it to be flat and perhaps graveled for easy car access.
  [*] We have about 300 feet of gravel driveway in fairly rough repair that should be regraded.
  [*] The property is fairly flat, but contains a lot of lumps and rises.
  Ratchet Rake bucket attachment and backdrag with FEL bucket.
  
  
• The area is known to get significant snow at times, and I am wondering in general how to best handle clearing the driveway and walkways between outbuildings (and potentially the barn)
  Tractor plow or tractor push/snow box on Loader.
  
  
• In the next year we are hoping to add a herd of around 8 sheep, so will be wanting to bring them hay, and move their fences around periodically.
  Tractor FEL bucket.
  
  
• There are occasional stumps to pull (at least one dead tree we need to deal with sooner rather than later) and we would like to plant additional trees.

Removing stumps larger than 2" to 2-1/2" is not compact tractor work. Stumps <2-1/2" that have been killed with herbicide can be pulled out of the ground using chains to a cross-drawbar with 'hanging tree' on the Three Point Hitch. Bellingham soil is pretty soft in my limited experience.
If you are prudent a Bucket Spade bucket attachment is excellent for tree planting.

To me, when I look at this list, it seems like we need a tractor. YES

So I've been looking at Kubota BX and B series machines with loaders and backhoe. Am I barking up the right tree here? How useful would the backhoe be on an ongoing basis? (I've heard that they are small enough to be not so useful.)
Forget the $7,000 Backhoe. Put $7,000 toward greater tractor weight.

Questions:

- For the tasks listed, does a tractor cover all my bases? Is it overkill? I get the sense that it's a good 'generalist' tool but not really the best at any of these things (especially clearing snow, perhaps.)

- What sizes and brands should I be looking at? We have good Kubota and John Deere dealers near by, nothing else is super close. I am super turned off by some of the Deere 'held hostage by the software' reports that I've read, but am unclear how relevant they are at this SCUT / CUT scale. Not relevant to Deere compact tractors.

- If we bought a new machine today, what kind of service life could we expect from it if we maintain it properly and house it under cover?

According to industry surveys, compact tractors are used an average of eighty engine hours per year in residential applications. A well maintained compact tractor drivetrain should be reliable through at least 8,000 engine hours. As a new operator you will bend various parts but the drivetrain should be faultless.

[/QUOTE]

I ALMOST agree with ..... "forget the $7000 backhoe".
ALMOST!
I have owned a 10' intermediate size TLB (Ford) for the past 33 years.
Just sold it, to (upgrade) buy a very lightly used 13 year old, intermediate size TLB (Kubota 48HP-- 11' hoe reach).
I am nearly 79 years old! I NEVER intend to be without a REAL TLB!
The 6',7',8' little hoes, would likely not be adequate for your anticipated use.

I don't use it much.......but whenever I want mine, it is here.
Rental has never been an option for me, as there are no TLB rentals within 75 miles.

 

[MossRoad]

Skip a backhoe. Identify your backhoe-type projects, get enough to justify a weekend rental of a small, tracked excavator once or twice a year. They can be rented around here for about $300 per weekend. For most homeowners, especially budget conscious individuals, owning a backhoe is a waste of money. Thousands of dollars for very little use. A small tracked excavator will do a lot more work in a lot less time than an even smaller backhoe. Use the savings to purchase other useful attachments for a tractor.

 

[Diggin It]

How useful would the backhoe be on an ongoing basis? (I've heard that they are small enough to be not so useful.)

This is a long running and sometimes bitter debate here. There is no one single right or wrong answer. Check around. If you have a rental place close by that will always have a BH available when YOU want it at a price you're willing to pay and YOU have the means to transport it at your will, then you may not want to buy one. If none of that is true, get one and see for yourself how useful it can be.

 

[fried1765]

This is a long running and sometimes bitter debate here. There is no one single right or wrong answer. Check around. If you have a rental place close by that will always have a BH available when YOU want it at a price you're willing to pay and YOU have the means to transport it at your will, then you may not want to buy one. If none of that is true, get one and see for yourself how useful it can be.

^^^^^YEP !!!

 

[Roadworthy]

I've got ten acres and been using a Mitsubishi D2350 for about fifteen years - it's now about 45 years old. It's a grey market tractor and getting harder to source parts. I could have picked up a newer grey market tractor from Tractorco (branch in North Bend). The Mitsubishi has been a very reliable tractor but I'm concerned about finding parts. I purchased a new Kubota L2501. It's a lot like my old Mitsubishi - even the controls are in the same places. At just under 25 horsepower (24.8) there is no computer and no add ons. It's a very basic tractor which nicely fills my needs. I'm in the process of accessorizing it.

 

[mtconnol]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I was wondering if I should consider the New Holland Workmaster 25 as well? How does it stack up against the B and L Kubotas?

 

[goeduck]

Welcome from Kitsap County. You have a nice looking place, lots of potential. I have 4 tractors without a cab, in our climate it is not worth it unless as you are making hay or something dusty. We just do not have enough hot or cold days. A lid attached to the ROPS is more than adequate in my opinion. As for size on your property, I would look for a used or new economy Kubota L series. A backhoe is handy, I have one, but if you are just getting started I would skip it and rent the few times you need it. An FEL and Grapple are a must. Forks are good, bucket good, ratchet rake good, brush hog a must. Those Himalayan berries can be tamed with a Grapple and burning and then maintained with a brush hog.

 

[Diggin It]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I was wondering if I should consider the New Holland Workmaster 25 as well?

If you're going to do that, look at the LS MT125 also. Exactly the same machine, lighter shade of blue and priced lower. LS makes the WM line for NH.

 

[dodge man]

I agree with a lot of the answers, a 25 hp machine would be a good size. I live on 3 acres. I own a Deere 2025r with an end loader, a 6’ rear blade, pallet forks and a 60” mid mount mower. I also own a lawn roller, a 3 point fertilizer spreader and a 4’ brush hog. I have lived here 22 years and yes, you will want a tractor. I owned a Kubota BX for 10 years but wanted something a little larger.

I often wish I had a backhoe but they add a lot to the cost. So far I have not needed to rent one.

Two things that have not been discussed, budget and a mid mount mower.

I would budget $20,000 to $25,000, it would be easy to spend more. Less if you buy used.

A mid mount mower? Have not see anyone bring it up. They make a tractor kind of like a riding mower. If there is a lot of stuff to mow around, they will work great. The bad, they add quite a bit of cost, around $2000, and they can be in the way for other tractor work. One reason I bought a John Deere was the auto connect deck. The mower goes off and on easy. You need to figure out how much yard you want to finish mow. You might get buy with a cheap riding mower or even a push mower if it is a small area.

 

[paulfun9]

I wouldn’t be without a backhoe for my tractor! However this depends on You and what type of projects you will get into once you realize what one can do. The cost of rentals adds up and the inconvenience of having multiple things started so you can justify the rental time also adds to frustration and makes some projects less likely to ever get done.
Most of my neighbors that have tractors were in the same thought process of rent instead of buy, they have practically paid for my backhoe over the years with a steady stream of odd projects that they had to go rent or pay me to come do for them.
One neighbor who I did a little work for yesterday has paid me over 2500 for work done and still has more to go over the next few years. He honestly would have been able to buy a hoe, do all his work then sell it and lost less with depreciation.

Understand that I can not say if a hoe is right for you or others but it is something that you must look at very closely before you decide because sometimes it’s not as simple as renting costs less.


Looking at the picture of property you posted. Unless you plan on filling the property with obstacles I would NEVER even consider a belly mower on a tractor of any size. With open property like pictured a rear discharge finish mower is the way to go. You will find it will cut faster gets just as close to the few obstacles you have and in most cases closer and in most cases you will be able to go with a much wider mower cutting down on cut time even more.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

It sounds to me like you could skip the backhoe attachment. They are expensive, heavy, and a pain in the 3-point to put on, remove and store when not in use. Having a flat, level paved area to set it on when storing it off the tractor will help, but then that is taking up valuable space while just sitting there gathering dust.

You mentioned "sheep" and feeding hay. The biggest question I have for you is what kind of bales are you going to be working with? Round bales? Square bales, large or small? If your source for hay only comes in large (read *heavy*) round bales, then you are not looking at near big enough tractors to handle moving large round bales. If you're going for small square bales, are you confident you have a reliable source provider for these small square bales? Most Ag's around here don't/won't produce small squares because it's not worth their time. So it's normally large round bales being produced and sold here. The key will be finding a reliable hay producing source that is willing to put up small square bales every year. Do you have a space to put up square bales under cover, out of rain/snow, etc?

For a mower, a belly mower will drastically reduce the amount of ground clearance your tractor has while it's on. Yes they can be taken on and off, but on most designs, it is not super simple or easy. Not near as bad as taking on and off a backhoe, but it may make you not take it off maybe every time you should, or hesitate to put it back on when you kind of need it. And a belly mower won't take much abuse from heavy brush or rocks or other small debris that a true rear mounted brush hog style cutter will breeze over and take in stride.

A brush hog style mower will not give you a park or golf course like cut appearance like a finish mower will. But for pasture work, they are more robust and will take the occasional rock (and brush cutting) in stride where a finish mower may blow it's guts out on you. The cutting blades on a brush cutter spin slower, are larger/thicker/heavier and they are also dull (on purpose) for chopping and hacking, not truly slice cutting the grass like a knife blade.

A finish mower is made for cutting grass, and that's it. They won't tolerate brush cutting for long (or very large brush at all), and they don't take impacts well with uneven ground or rocks and other debris. The blades are smaller, thinner, lighter and they are sharp like a regular lawn mower blade. They do require sharpening from time to time as they dull from normal use. They also spin at a much higher speed. All this is what gives them that park like clean finishing cut, but it does make them much more prone to damage from foreign objects.

Hanging a 3 point hitch style rear mower, either finish or brush, off the back of your tractor will make it hard to maneuver around obstacles, buildings, cars, etc while you're mowing. A belly mower would be easier to mow around obstacles with, but it will still be difficult to get close to walls, sprinklers, flower beds, etc. You'll need some kind of secondary mower for getting around "stuff" in your yard and around the house. Either a push mower, or a riding mower will be needed, as well as some kind of string trimmer/weed eater for getting the last finish work done.

We're just under 4 acres here presently, but I mow about 6 acres (neighbor's pasture too). I mow all the pasture area, road ditches and rough places with the 3 pt rear brush hog mower. And I mow the "lawn" areas around our house and out buildings with a plain old riding lawn mower. I also use a string trimmer around the house, trees, fence and flower beds that are immediately around the house and back yard. I don't worry about trimming around the out buildings, lean to, or pasture fencing.

 

[shooterdon]

Forget about mowing 1/6 of an acre with a tractor. Waste of money and a pain to remove/attach mower deck. Get a lawnmower for that. Even a rider is overkill.

Nothing you have mentioned would justify the cost of a backhoe IMHO. Use the savings for a better machine and implements

Tractors will handle snow with the right implements. I have done a decent job with a back blade and FEL. This year I am going with a front blade and snowblower...but I get 135 inches of snow a year. For a few years, I used a beater pickup with a plow....a good option if you have space to push snow...much faster than using a tractor...can be used for hauling all sorts of stuff...about the same cost as a blower on a tractor....heated cab and wipers. Think about it. Cab and blower on a tractor adds about $8000+


As mentioned, hay can be heavy if using large round bales. Look at loader capacity....be wary of specs at the pins...your load will be well beyond the pins and that reduces lift capacity. Buying square bales will be more costly, but allow use of a smaller tractor.

Lastly, storage. I like my tractor and implements indoors or at least under cover. A carport 20x21 and 9 ft high is under $2000 installed in my area. Good option to get you started. It can be enclosed later when funds are available. You want it high enough to take a large enough door to drive the tractor in if you ever enclose it.