Whats your thoughts on finding a water source

[1930]

Im trying to learn what I can about using the trees as an indicator of water source.

I have primarily 3 types of dominant trees on my property found in Dunnellon Fl. Pines and Oaks.

I have ( or had ) some very large pine trees, some roughly 20 inches + in diam. I understand that these trees do not require large amounts of water to survive but I can also assume that the several hundred pine trees I have removed began life at approx the same time and some chose to grow to be giants and do very well on the property and some just did ok if they survived at all.

Im guessing that maybe this is an indicator of an underground water source that Id like to find. The trees were maybe 60 ft in height so that means a tap root prob no longer from what Ive read.

I also have ALOT of blackjack oak on the 5 acres of property. Most of them are doing poorly visually, Im hoping that is because they had such a tough time competing with all the dominant pines.

I have some of these trees that have grown to 20-30 feet in height, Im not sure what these trees use for daily water consumption, Im not sure where to find more answers to these questions.

Id appreciate any comments

 

[1930]

There are 3 well drilling companies in the area, 2 of them told me after reviewing wells in the area that I would have been hard pressed to have picked a more drier area.

The 3rd company said the same and didnt bother to get back with me.

Its very sandy and dry

 

[oosik]

Around here - the Scabrock Lands - its cottonwoods. They grow in groves in the valleys. It's where what little rain we get drains to. It's also where you might find a spring or dig a well.

I am very fortunate. The original homestead family found a VERY LARGE spring in the valley about 150 feet from where my house is. Otherwise - it's shallow soil cover over basaltic lava bedrock over all my 80 acres. I had the spring improved and it provides water for my house.

Otherwise - I would have to pull water from my little lake with some form of treatment.

The chances of finding water by drilling into the basaltic lava bedrock - something less than zero.

With very few exceptions - all old homesteads, around here, are located near a valley, draw or swale which had a chance of water when a well was dug.

The first thing a homesteader did around here. Look for and find water. THEN they decided where the house would be built.

 

[fruitcakesa]

When I had my deep well drilled, I had a dowser come in to check things out.
He found a couple of likely spots but the drill rig could only be located due to its size in one spot that was not in the areas we drive.
So we drilled there and hit water at 200+ feet.
Of course, we are talking apples and oranges ,Vermont vs Florida, rocks, silt and clay vs sand.

 

[MossRoad]

Taller trees of the same species in one place or another on the same property could indicate a water source, or could indicate better nutrients in the soil and have nothing to do with available water.

I'd consult your local county extension agent before talking to well drillers and see what they tell you as far as available water in the area, well depths, volumes, etc....

For fun, here's a map I found of FL that indicates water flow averages from 12" wells. Here's a link to where I got the map, and there's more info on that page. Good luck in your search.

Estimated Yield of Fresh-Water Wells, 1975

 

[hunt4570]

I'm a bit north of you in SC, but still all sand! BUT I do have several springs but I'm lucky in that they just come to the surface on their own. Good luck in your search!

 

[hunt4570]

I am very fortunate. The original homestead family found a VERY LARGE spring in the valley about 150 feet from where my house is. Otherwise - it's shallow soil cover over basaltic lava bedrock over all my 80 acres. I had the spring improved and it provides water for my house.

So, how do you go about having your spring "improved" ?
I have several springs on my place that I'd like to "improve or develop" to where I could pipe water from them.

 

[oosik]

The contractor that installed my septic system had an extend-a-hoe - Caterpillar, on steel tracks, the boom extended. Down to the spring - rip out the old "well box" and plumbing. The homesteader had built a box that housed an old two piston wobble pump. It pumped water up to the one sink in the homestead house. Considering this was the 1890's - they were state of the art - ultra modern.

He dug down as far as possible and hit gravel at about 18 feet. Was able to go about another four feet into the gravel. Set one 4' diameter, 4' high perforated cement ring on the bottom. Came all the way back up to the surface with non-perf cement rings. Topped it off with a "reducer" cement ring and lid. Backfilled around the bottom perf'ed ring with washed coarse stone. Filled up to the surface with the dug dirt.
Then the fun began. For the next 76 hours, continuously, I pumped the spring to clear the mud, silt & sand. Used a 5" diesel powered trash pump - ~ 500 gpm. I built a surge tool - like a plumbers helper. A long 2x4 with a chunk of plywood nailed on the bottom. EVERY half hour - either myself, my wife or my son - down to the well - check the fuel level on the trash pump - use this home made surge tool to surge the well.

After 76 hours we were dam tired and figured it had been surged/pumped enough to clean it out. During this time of continuous pumping the water level NEVER dropped more than half an inch. This is just one of many springs that feed my little lake. Fortunately, this one is on dry land. The remainder of the springs are out under the water in the little lake( 5 acres of open water - 80 feet deep).

I've used this setup for 38+ years now. House water - water the yard. I have a half horse submersible pump in the spring and pressure tank in the basement. Year-round the water is clear as a crystal and always 54 degree F.

 

[wagne223]

Are you looking for a spot to drill a well, or are you looking for natural surface water?

I've not heard of anywhere in FL that a driller cannot reach water.

If your looking for surface water, drillers are not the people to ask.

 

[1930]

Im going to have to put in a deep well, I am planning ahead so I am trying to collect from peoples experiences. Everyone says water is everywhere in Fl but its simply not true.

Thanks for the responses

 

[jaydee325]

This kind of information was available through my county health department. I just called and they looked up my address and told me how far down I'd have to drill to reach good water. The well driller had the same info.

 

[hunt4570]

The contractor that installed my septic system had an extend-a-hoe - Caterpillar, on steel tracks, the boom extended. Down to the spring - rip out the old "well box" and plumbing. The homesteader had built a box that housed an old two piston wobble pump. It pumped water up to the one sink in the homestead house. Considering this was the 1890's - they were state of the art - ultra modern.

He dug down as far as possible and hit gravel at about 18 feet. Was able to go about another four feet into the gravel. Set one 4' diameter, 4' high perforated cement ring on the bottom. Came all the way back up to the surface with non-perf cement rings. Topped it off with a "reducer" cement ring and lid. Backfilled around the bottom perf'ed ring with washed coarse stone. Filled up to the surface with the dug dirt.
Then the fun began. For the next 76 hours, continuously, I pumped the spring to clear the mud, silt & sand. Used a 5" diesel powered trash pump - ~ 500 gpm. I built a surge tool - like a plumbers helper. A long 2x4 with a chunk of plywood nailed on the bottom. EVERY half hour - either myself, my wife or my son - down to the well - check the fuel level on the trash pump - use this home made surge tool to surge the well.

After 76 hours we were dam tired and figured it had been surged/pumped enough to clean it out. During this time of continuous pumping the water level NEVER dropped more than half an inch. This is just one of many springs that feed my little lake. Fortunately, this one is on dry land. The remainder of the springs are out under the water in the little lake( 5 acres of open water - 80 feet deep).

I've used this setup for 38+ years now. House water - water the yard. I have a half horse submersible pump in the spring and pressure tank in the basement. Year-round the water is clear as a crystal and always 54 degree F.

Impressive on the well thing, that must have cost a bundle!!

And a 5 acre pond that's 80 feet deep is freaking amazing!!!!! Mine is about 3 acres and the deepest point is about 12 feet

 

[oosik]

The water in the spring enters thru the perf holes on one side of the perf'd cement ring - flows across the four feet and flows out the far side of the ring. It's one H*LL of a lot of water and it moves FAST. The little lake is typical of many lakes in this area. Deep and narrow. All part of the outflow from ancient Lake Missoula. But that's another story.

The cost of the dirt work was $500. The contractor was a good friend and just charged his time. All tolled, I would estimate the dirt work, cement rings, ditch up to the house, pump, pipe, pressure tank, controls - right around $2200. Remember this was done 38+ years ago.

A picture of my little lake. Five acres of open water - 80' deep right down the center - five acres of cattails on the far end with water depth going from 12' to 3' at the outlet. The water flows out - takes a turn and into my big - 125 acre lake. This picture is taken off my front deck. Lake is about 85' from the front deck.

View attachment 614294. Both sides of the little lake are vertical basaltic lava cliffs - zero shore line. Jump off the cliff - land a foot out from the cliff - you are in water that's 45' deep. Visiting children have two choices. If outside - you MUST wear a full life jacket. If not, you MUST remain in my house.

 

[MossRoad]

The only thing that resembles that around here are the limestone quarries in western and southern Indiana.

 

[oosik]

I think that's almost exactly what the little lake must be like - a quarry. Take a gigantic bull dozer - drop the blade and go down, down, down to 80 feet. Go at that depth for around 800 feet and then start coming back up. End up with a cut depth about 3 feet deep at the outlet on the far end. The bottom will be flat - the side walls will be vertical. The water depth at the cliff edge is 45'. From there it slopes at about a 45 degree angle until it hits the flat bottom at a depth of 80 feet. The flat bottom is about 200 feet wide by about 800 feet long. The little lake is a pure rectangle - about 380 feet wide by 1175 feet long.

I do have an irrigation pump down at the bottom of the cliff - on a shelf that's bolted to the cliff. It's such a real true PITA to fire it up in the spring & shut it down in the fall - - I simply don't use it any more. I try not to remember how many times I've fallen - getting down to activate/deactivate that irrigation pump. And you don't just fall - you fall into the little lake. I got, what was, a couple real nice Crescent wrenches somewhere out there in deep water, feeding the bass.

 

[hunt4570]

I think that's almost exactly what the little lake must be like - a quarry. Take a gigantic bull dozer - drop the blade and go down, down, down to 80 feet. Go at that depth for around 800 feet and then start coming back up. End up with a cut depth about 3 feet deep at the outlet on the far end. The bottom will be flat - the side walls will be vertical. The water depth at the cliff edge is 45'. From there it slopes at about a 45 degree angle until it hits the flat bottom at a depth of 80 feet. The flat bottom is about 200 feet wide by about 800 feet long. The little lake is a pure rectangle - about 380 feet wide by 1175 feet long.

I do have an irrigation pump down at the bottom of the cliff - on a shelf that's bolted to the cliff. It's such a real true PITA to fire it up in the spring & shut it down in the fall - - I simply don't use it any more. I try not to remember how many times I've fallen - getting down to activate/deactivate that irrigation pump. And you don't just fall - you fall into the little lake. I got, what was, a couple real nice Crescent wrenches somewhere out there in deep water, feeding the bass.

How deep is your 125 acre lake?? WOW nice!! How much property do you have that you have a 125 ac lake? Super jealous of having a lake of that size! Knew a guy once that had a 40 ac lake, that was cool! I have about a 3 acre pond and a 1 1/4 ac pond and was thinking that was great! (I still do)

 

[oosik]

The big lake is the shape of an old Army boot. It's the "odd ball" in this part of the country. It's very shallow - about 8' at the max and I don't own all of the big lake. Of my 80 acres there is about sixty of dirt - twenty of water. But that can change also. Some years the big lake will go completely dry. The "ratio" then becomes 75 dirt - 5 water.

This is an aerial view of the lands around here and my 80. View attachment 614370. The "shaft" of the boot goes out of the picture to the bottom left. I can see that this is a pic during a dry spell. The "shaft" is almost completely dry. During a really dry year - even the foot of the boot will go completely dry. My little lake can vary as much as 14 inches between the spring and fall of a really dry year. The little lake is called Martin Lk - the name of the folks who homesteaded this property. The big lake is Alkali Lk. Named after the type of water in the lake.

 

[Jstpssng]

How deep is your 125 acre lake?? WOW nice!! How much property do you have that you have a 125 ac lake? Super jealous of having a lake of that size! Knew a guy once that had a 40 ac lake, that was cool! I have about a 3 acre pond and a 1 1/4 ac pond and was thinking that was great! (I still do)

It's all a matter of perspective. I would love to have a pond 1/10th the size of your small one, to irrigate my garden and for my dog to swim in. Right now all that I have is a mud puddle in the middle of the driveway, and that's starting to dry up.

 

[oosik]

Well, let me add to the story. In all 38+ years out here I've always had a dog. Labs, Blue healers, Cocker spaniels, "something" big and fuzzy. The cliffs down to the water are so very steep that only very rarely did any of these dogs attempt entry into the little lake. Way down at the far end of this little lake there is a way down where you won't fall. I have an aluminum dock down there. Post#13 - enlarge the upper left hand corner. It can be seen sticking out there. The Labs would jump off the dock and paddle back to shore. The rest - lean over the dock and drink the water.

The water in the little lake is clean. The water in the big lake - alkaline. But the big lake has an easy shoreline all the way around it. The bottom of the big lake is, at the VERY least, three to four feet of rotting goose poop.

So - what lake have all the dogs loved to romp in - you guessed it. A trip over to the big lake always meant a bath when we got home. Even though I've never gone into the water of the big lake - a dog bath always ends up with me taking a bath also. The stench from the mud in the big lake would even make a wench retch.

The neighbors cows will drink from the big lake. They can also defecate thru the eye of a needle - and leave no stain on the needle. The big lake is called Alkali.

 

[Alan W.]

Ive seen a lot of old guys witch wells in this area. Usually hit water. Dont know ifn their that good or water that easy to hit.
A lot of the wells in my immediate area are sulfur water. Ive been told its due to the slate layer. Pretty nasty stuff.
I could go down 20 to 30 feet and hit the slate.
Cisterns were big in this area before the city water came.