Assistance with tuition

[quicksandfarmer]

Just a note. When my dad went to Notre Dame 80 something years ago, it was $600 per year. It's $69,000 per year today.....

Yep.

I saw a chart recently (although I can't find it) comparing college tuition with hourly wages for high school graduates over the past 60 years or so. The short story is tuition has increased a lot, wages haven't. They figured someone going to school could work full time in the summer and part time during the year, for about 800 hours total a year. In the 1950's you could work 800 hours, pay for college, and have money left over. In the 1980's you could work 800 hours and pay about half. Today it's hard to make a dent.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've wondered about this... when I started going to college I made $2 an hour working weekends behind a parts counter... now that job pays $15 here... so 7.5 times more.

Have not tracked college costs but 7.5 times is a huge multiple and in the case of SF City College it is now tuition free...

Mayor Announces Agreement to Extend Free Tuition at City College of San Francisco – CBS San Francisco

 

[MossRoad]

Has anyone priced veterinary school lately?

 

[MossRoad]

Has anyone priced veterinary school lately?

From $148,807 to $407,983, on top of your 4 year degree! That's how much!!!

Source: How much does it cost to attend veterinary school? - I Want to be a Veterinarian - VIN Foundation - VIN

 

[MossRoad]

From the article:

"
Wow! That’s a lot of money. Veterinarians must have very high salaries to pay back those loans.

Most new graduate veterinarians in full-time positions earned between $59,900 and $93,500 in 2017.

Over the last decade increases in the cost of education have far outpaced starting salaries for veterinarians.

Veterinary graduates should expect to be repaying their student loans over a 10 to 25 year period depending on their repayment plan, income, and family situation. Borrowing from private lenders is not advised for those needing to finance the majority of their cost of attendance.

Although the options and rules can seem complex, federal student loans offer income-driven repayment (IDR) options enabling veterinary graduates to live a reasonable lifestyle while meeting their repayment obligations.

These programs are evolving and do not apply to private loans. Information about IDR options (IBR, PAYE, REPAYE), other government student loan and forgiveness (PSLF) options can be found at studentaid.ed.gov and VINFoundation.org."

 

[MossRoad]

The main takeaway from that is this, and it applies to regular college as well, in my opinion:

Borrowing from private lenders is not advised for those needing to finance the majority of their cost of attendance.

federal student loans offer income-driven repayment (IDR) options enabling veterinary graduates to live a reasonable lifestyle while meeting their repayment obligations.

 

[Diggin It]

The business of the Education Industry is no longer about educating the student, but rather perpetuating the funding of itself.

 

[Sigarms]

Just a note. When my dad went to Notre Dame 80 something years ago, it was $600 per year. It's $69,000 per year today.....

I graduated from a state university in the late 80's. 4 year degree ran me a total $22,320 for tuition (less room and board).

For about 75% of the degrees that kids get and and what those jobs pay (even after working for more than a couple of years in your chosen profession), I just don't see how going to college is a good choice for the majority of graduates when you have a such an extreme debt from the get go. Then we get into the discussion that education itself is big business itself.

For myself, I covered my school expenses myself, worked full time summer jobs and my parents helped me out with room and board when needed. My wife pretty much did the same thing. Have a feeling if our boys go to college, we may help, but they will have to prove they are capable of going and making good choices.

 

[Sigarms]

From $148,807 to $407,983, on top of your 4 year degree! That's how much!!!

Source: How much does it cost to attend veterinary school? - I Want to be a Veterinarian - VIN Foundation - VIN

Funny, had to drive my dad's car up to Pa the other week to get a state inspection. My old mechanic (the early 90's) did the work. His daughter recently graduated from Vet school (I believe she actually got her degree from Purdue) and your numbers aren't that far off from what he was telling me.

 

[Motorboatin]

Yep.

I saw a chart recently (although I can't find it) comparing college tuition with hourly wages for high school graduates over the past 60 years or so. The short story is tuition has increased a lot, wages haven't. They figured someone going to school could work full time in the summer and part time during the year, for about 800 hours total a year. In the 1950's you could work 800 hours, pay for college, and have money left over. In the 1980's you could work 800 hours and pay about half. Today it's hard to make a dent.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

I did the same...went to a 2-year community college, worked 2 p/t jobs to pay for it. As Streetcar noted, college was a lot more affordable back then (in my case late 60s, graduated in 1970), especially at a community college with in-state rates. My parents agreed to help with expenses during my second year but my first I was on my own (a bit of pressure to perform...I'd been kind of a slacker in H.S.). I also was able to get a small grant in my 2nd year (with conditions...more on that later), which helped too.
It worked...I graduated 2nd in my class with a 3.85 GPA.



Excuse me for saying this, but it seems like your daughter's contributing to her own problems. Teaching and nursing are both fields (especially nursing) where demand exceeds supply. Would it kill her to work for a few years in Podunk in exchange for a scholarship?
I had a grant (not a scholarship per se) when I was in school that in exchange I'd agree to work for my first 2 years after graduation at a firm based in state. I did. Could I have made more money moving out of state? Probably, but making the big bucks was never that much of a motivation for me, and the last thing I wanted to do was to move to some big city anyway.

Alas, today's generation seems to have been raised to see such opportunities as beneath them.



Nothing wrong with "the trades". Dunno about where you live, but there's lots of demand for skilled tradesmen, especially as we boomers retire and few are there to take our places. Meanwhile millennials with post-grad degrees are working at Starbucks or driving an uber because there's a glut of applicants with similar qualifications for jobs in those fields (and demanding a $15 minimum wage because they can't get by with what a menial job like that pays).

I would personally never advise anyone to pursue a degree in a field they don't have any interest in. Just to earn a degree so someone can say "I have a degree"? My daughter has no interest in being either a nurse or a teacher. There it is. Why on earth should anyone seek a degree in a profession they have no interest in? I will also say that both of those professions should only be entered by people that have the passion for doing that kind of work. Good teachers and nurses are hard to find, and should be highly valued. Bad teachers and nurses should be weeded out of those professions and encouraged to do something else. If an individual doesn't have the passion for that type of work, then that is one profession they should stay out of. Regardless if the degree was "free" or not.

 

[Gem99ultra]

The pay spread between technical school education and many college educations has grown very narrow. I suspect the reason for many is the major line of study by some college students is directed at non-essential knowledge and skills. When I hear of some of the college majors I'm in total disbelief; what were those young people thinking! For example, there is probably limited demand for education majors relating to striped miniature monkeys in Africa, whereas there will always be a demand for a technical education in electrical work, or similar. And definitely, the cost spread is vastly different.

Perhaps some of those off-base college major studies are to simply to qualify for "still going to school" label for the leisure of doing so, rather than preparing to make a living? I can personally identify at least one 'young man' at age 35 that is still going to college to "find himself". Of course, that cost is covered by The Bank of Dad. Hopefully that case is by far the exception rather than the rule.

 

[MAD777]

This graph previously quoted, shows college costs running with general inflation until the proliferation of student loans. That's when costs spiraled out of control. Student loans are the biggest Wall Street banker's scam of all time.
The banks went to colleges and said, "We have a plan where you can quadruple your price!" And of course the banks skim the interest off backs of the students.
And what do colleges do with all that extra money? They build new stadiums and country club like recreation facilities to attract more students (and their loans).
If a law was passed today to eliminate student loans, college would be 1/4 the price next year, or else that would have no students!
I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Lots of possibilities...

Some districts offer free community college like San Francisco...

Like most... my brothers and I worked and paid our way through school... it seemed a lot were doing the same in the 80's unless they had family money. The folks made the same offer... stay at home as a full time student... I took them up... my brother moved out the day after high school and the other when his friends were desperate to replace a roommate that dropped out of college... an offer too good to pass...

My niece just did the signing for her full college scholarship... she had several offers and was flown down to two schools... the one she really wanted got caught up in the Scholarship Scandal so they would not commit while the two in hand came with expiration dates...

Several of our RN's left home right out of High School and went the military route... they are mid 20's and doing very well... their service made it possible to realize their dream.

The local High School had 500,000 in local scholarship money which I found really amazing... everything from Rotary, Kiwanis to the Portuguese American Society and several of the Hospitals for nursing majors...

The problem with Athletic Scholarship is if you are injured the money goes away... happened to a friend but she got two full years which was quite a benefit before being injured...

Free college, so you get to pay for everyones education...

And the same 2 or 3 kids get all those local scholorships. At least they did here.

 

[MossRoad]

I would personally never advise anyone to pursue a degree in a field they don't have any interest in. Just to earn a degree so someone can say "I have a degree"? My daughter has no interest in being either a nurse or a teacher. There it is. Why on earth should anyone seek a degree in a profession they have no interest in? I will also say that both of those professions should only be entered by people that have the passion for doing that kind of work. Good teachers and nurses are hard to find, and should be highly valued. Bad teachers and nurses should be weeded out of those professions and encouraged to do something else. If an individual doesn't have the passion for that type of work, then that is one profession they should stay out of. Regardless if the degree was "free" or not.

That right there is what gets me.

Yes, you can get a good job in a lot of fields, with the right education. For many people, that is enough.

However, if you dislike that type of work, why pursue it from the get-go? You'll be a financially successful grump for the rest of your life!

 

[USAFpj]

why pursue it from the get-go

My Step Dad, a former AF LTC who went to Ball State, was explaining to me back in 92, that college only showed to an employer that you could stick out BS to its end, and that statistically, I would not enter the workplace in the same field that I had pursued while in school.

Looking back, and in my case, he was correct on both accounts. My employer would like to see a B.S., but they really like a PMP cert...

 

[Diggin It]

What annoys me is that many companies require a degree even for entry level positions. They don't care if the degree is related to the position at all, only that applicants have one.

 

[Jchonline]

College is like any other investment. You need to find the best value proposition. That might mean a Top 50 rank engineering school instead of Top 20. It is the person that drives success, not the college they attend. This may require extensive research on your part (my wife is now a college statistical expert). These days college is no guarantee of a job. Look for programs that have very high job placement rates and great internship relationships with the surrounding community. Next absolutely your kids should be working. Now it might not be full time, but they should do their best to help with their expenses.

To me, the rest is on us. If I have to work 5 years longer so my kids are debt free I am fine with that. We made the decision to have them and they are the main reason we are on the planet. Just my opinion.

 

[Sigarms]

My Step Dad, a former AF LTC who went to Ball State, was explaining to me back in 92, that college only showed to an employer that you could stick out BS to its end, and that statistically, I would not enter the workplace in the same field that I had pursued while in school.

Looking back, and in my case, he was correct on both accounts. My employer would like to see a B.S., but they really like a PMP cert...

There is the rub...

I don't use my 4 degree B.S degree in my career profession now, but in my current position, my employeer requires a 4 year degree, but I was doing this job for 15 years before they hired me, and I know it's not the college degree but the work experience that really matters. More than stupid IMO.

The reality is IMO it comes down to work ethic. Always has, always will...

However, I do have a co worker that has a mechanical enginnering degree from NC state, and he uses it regularly to determine what engineers are copying and pasting and have no clue what their looking for, when it took me 3 weeks to figure out LMAO. My issue is if a man has a certification by the state to be a professional engineer, I assumed he knew what he was doing LOL I always feel pretty good when people smarter than myself call me looking for a answer.

 

[USAFpj]

The reality is IMO it comes down to work ethic. Always has, always will...

Or 'playing the game'. My kids need to learn how to use the system, and not necessarily fight it. While my teammates gnash their teeth, whine about job requirements, or even buck the system, I saw that to survive, I needed to get on board with the vision that management had. Maybe I got that while in the military?

You may not think a degree is worth the cost, applicable to you, etc...- the point is that unless you are a subject matter expert in a rare field, you're only limiting yourself for future opportunities.