Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Cutting / Groving / Siping R-4 for snow

[nightdevil]

Got the iron too hot at some point.

View attachment 588834

Oh wow... Not sure that's possible though...

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

This was my fault, I was running the iron inches from the propane heater

 

[NEPA guy]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

 

[dnw64]

Ach, those grapes were probably sour anyways.

 

[k0ua]

Final tire. All posts real time. If you have an option, do this on a hot sunny summer day.

Groovy!!!

View attachment 588829

Watcha gonna do with all of them "fishing worms"

 

[dragoneggs]

Watcha gonna do with all of them "fishing worms"

Another great repurpose idea! :thumbsup:

 

[k0ua]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

Well, the theory is, your missing a piece of the puzzle. Everything you said about winter tires is true, BUT, supposedly the fact that the new grooves in the hard rubber tires will pack with snow, and snow on snow is much better traction than rubber on snow. Now, I grooved my tires on the tractor before the one I own now, but I only was able to test it on one small snow event before I traded it off. I felt it was better, but there wasn't enough testing by me to come to any definite conclusion. However many on here will swear by the effectiveness of this grooving procedure. I never grooved my present tires because I have a set of chains for the rear.

 

[LouNY]

I am a strong believer in using quality chains, especially the Euro or diamond patterned studded style.

That said, years ago in the days of bias ply 10 and 12 ply 7.50-16 pickup tires I had some hard riding and low traction tires,
took them to a truck tire store that had a sipping machine, it put a series of slices in the tread of the tires about a quarter of an inch
apart. I was amazed at the difference in the tires behavior, ride comfort increased, noise decreased, temperature dropped and
the traction improved in dry snow, gravel, and paved roads, the traction was better on ice but wet snow it didn't seem to help.
That was back when I was working as a traveler on controls working out of West Texas and running to Wyoming, New Mexico, Oklahoma,
and on the road to the tune of 60,000 miles a year, went thru a lot of tires.

So yes sipping can help, it will never even come close to quality chains.
My :2cents: :drink:
Lou

 

[FreedomFamilyFarms]

I’ve had two opportunities to test these already and I can say with confidence the grooves make a difference. The first was 2-3 inches of powder on ice. The second was 3 inches of heavy wet snow. I was able to move snow uphill on the drive in a couple spots where I would previously spin and have to dump my blade, head uphill and plow downhill. That required a lot of manual blade adjustments.

For me this was a decision based on two factors: 1. The grooving iron cost 1/10th the price of chains and wheel spacers. (~$80 for iron, ~$800 for chains/spacers. 2. Grooving is a permanent mod requiring no prep work when needed.

So far, I’m very pleased with the investment. It may be one of the best ROIs I’ve made on this machine.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Anyone know if siping or grooving the track on a CTL would make a difference in snow? right now I have a NH C175 and it came with the block tracks (large alternating squares). It is awful in the snow when plowing. New tracks are along the lines of $1700. Studs for CTL tracks are about $800. If I can spend less than $200 to make these tracks work better in the snow I'd be a happy camper.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Watcha gonna do with all of them "fishing worms"

........

 

[chim]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

The grooved R4 tires on my L3200 have performed well in the several years since they've been done, but an experience today with the L4240 / grooved R4's was nothing short of amazing. I had made one pass down the driveway and turned around at the road to plow the other half coming back. Pushing snow, the tractor didn't quite make it all the way to the top of the hill.

It was only after clearing the snow as best I could that I realized the whole driveway was solid ice. The below pictures show the hill. There's an old tree stump off the side of the driveway in two pictures. The tractor made it that far before running out of traction. Wanting to experiment a bit, I tried plowing uphill a few more times but the tires kept breaking loose near the top. I made several trips just driving up and down the hill and it could easily make it up the hill with the blade raised. The hill is so icy I had to walk in the soft snow on the side to get the picture showing the side view.

 

[farm boy00]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

 

[kennyd]

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

More that a few...
I've experienced fabulous results on two different tractors now.

 

[Buggs67]

How about you read through this thread and see that your "think about it logically" isnt quite right.
A good few members have had good luck with grooving their tires.

Sometime logic doesn't apply.

My tractor seems to have better traction in the snow/ice we currently have. And when I was working in the dirt mud before the snow it also seemed to slip less.

And these are not like cars, where we can have one set of rims/tires for winter and another set for winter. We have to work with what the tractor came with, at least until they wear out. Then I could consider turf tires.

 

[dnw64]

Sometime logic doesn't apply.

My tractor seems to have better traction in the snow/ice we currently have. And when I was working in the dirt mud before the snow it also seemed to slip less.

And these are not like cars, where we can have one set of rims/tires for winter and another set for winter. We have to work with what the tractor came with, at least until they wear out. Then I could consider turf tires.

Funny, because when the reasons for grooving were explained to me (early in the thread), it seemed entirely logical.

But more important than logic are the many success stories. If just a few, you could chalk up to placebo effect. It's not "just a few". Sure, I haven't seen any "scientific" tests that would stand up to peer-reviewed publishings, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't, if such tests were done.

 

[dragoneggs]

I don't get how guys think that grooving your tires is going to make a big difference. Winter tires are made of a softer rubber compound which conform to the road more efficiently. That's what makes a winter tire. Grooves in a harder rubber wont flex anywhere near as much as the micro grooves you see in winter tires. Little to no improvement and you just marked up your tires causing them to degrade faster. Think about it logically.

Using turf tires to maximize your surface area or putting chains on is the best thing you can do.

You have data to support your claim? Many folks have reported much better traction on snow after adding grooves. I don't have data but I would be willing to bet that the more grooves the better. And I have been thinking about it logically. Do turfs wear faster because they have more grooves?

 

[NEPA guy]

The only empirical evidence I can show is that my old man ran his tractor clearing snow, for 25 years up a steep road, 1/4 of a mile without grooves, without a problem. Any solid data I could link to here from tire manufacturers proving that that type of rubber is what makes a winter tire a winter tire. Not the pattern. I have also decided to use turf tires to plow up a significant grade, without issue for 3 years in both snow and ice. I never use chemicals.

I won't argue to say that pattern does not have any bearing whatsoever, but not enough to merit a marked difference in adherence. Snow binds to snow better than snow binds to rubber. When the tire spins it will break the contact. Kinda like when you run an machine with tires through mud, it fills up the grooves with mud, creates a smooth surface and the tire by its own virtue will spin, not create a situation where it will grab that much better.

I get it. I like to get my hands on things and make them better in any way I can. Save some money. Make it better, stronger, faster. Give myself the satisfaction that proven or otherwise, I can make a difference. If it makes you feel better go for it. Kinda like AMS oil.

 

[RjCorazza]

Grooves provide more biting edges in a tire and have little or nothing to do with tire composition. Sipes, on the other hand, do work better on tires that have a rubber composition that allows flexing. That’s my layman’s understanding anyway.
As far as performance improvement with grooved tractor tires, I can tell a substantial difference with my grooved R4’s on two tractors - most notably in wet snow.

 

[Garandman]

The only empirical evidence I can show is that my old man ran his tractor clearing snow, for 25 years up a steep road, 1/4 of a mile without grooves, without a problem. Any solid data I could link to here from tire manufacturers proving that that type of rubber is what makes a winter tire a winter tire. Not the pattern. I have also decided to use turf tires to plow up a significant grade, without issue for 3 years in both snow and ice. I never use chemicals.

I won't argue to say that pattern does not have any bearing whatsoever, but not enough to merit a marked difference in adherence. Snow binds to snow better than snow binds to rubber. When the tire spins it will break the contact. Kinda like when you run an machine with tires through mud, it fills up the grooves with mud, creates a smooth surface and the tire by its own virtue will spin, not create a situation where it will grab that much better.

I get it. I like to get my hands on things and make them better in any way I can. Save some money. Make it better, stronger, faster. Give myself the satisfaction that proven or otherwise, I can make a difference. If it makes you feel better go for it. Kinda like AMS oil.

Summary: you have not tried this yourself and thus dismiss the effort.

I have tried it, and have empirical proof the technique is an improvement: I couldn稚 push snow up the hill in my driveway before I grooved the tires. After grooving, I could. See where the snow is sticking?

Winter tires have special tread compounds, but that is not the entire story. They also have different tread geometry.