Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie)

[houska]

I've just bought a recreational property in Ontario. I'm new to tractors, but based on my reading here and elsewhere, I think I should get a Kubota L3901 or Kioti CK4010.
Would appreciate people poking holes in my thinking. When some of this white stuff goes away, I'll start visiting dealers.

The land is several hundred acres of Canadian shield wilderness: lakes, ponds, woods, rocky areas. Most of it maintained by beavers, not us, so the actual area is less important than that there's 4km (2.5 mi) of private road. Cut in decades ago, painstakingly maintained by the previous owner with borrowed random equipment. The road's good in summer for 2WD, but some areas need work and of course maintenance. Some of it is level, some mildly hilly, a few places with 12-14% slopes. Plus miles of abandoned ATV trails to revive, and over the next few years we'll slowly progress from tenting on the land (currently no structures at all) to building a small cabin. No fields to work, no lawn to mow, no snow removal (3 season use).

My thinking:

• Compact tractor with attachments as general purpose workhorse, rent excavator and/or dozer when needed for big stuff
• 54" wide footprint. 48" subcompacts underpowered for land this size, but full size tractors would be too big in ATV-trail spaces
• Hydro since will doing lots of tight-spaces back'n'forth work, and as a tractor etc newbie one fewer thing (clutch) to worry about
• Go for ~40HP rather than <35HP. Know (thanks to this board) hydraulics matter more than HP for many applications, but still important(?) due to brushcutting and going up and down hills
• Around here, Kubota seems to be the default brand for compacts. There are a couple of Kioti dealers within driving range, but very little Mahindra and no RK/TYM. Haven't seen any compact Deeres locally.
• All that leads to a L3901 or CK4010. A L3301 or CK3510 seem an unnecessary downgrade, and a L4701 or DK... needless bulk?
• ROPS/open cab -- may regret not having a closed cab if I find use for the tractor in the winter, but so far that's not in the cards
• Open to buying used (including older models), but seems tractors in good condition retain pretty high value, as a newbie I don't want to be tinkering with gremlins and will value the convenience of some bells'n'whistles versus the "keep it old, simple, and mechanical" school of thought. So new seems likely the better bet.
• Attachments: loader, grapple (with long bottom tines - thanks to this board - to capture brush rather than dig/pull stuff out), backhoe (culverts, swales, ditches...) right off the bat...
• ....with a (rough) rotary cutter, box blade, dump trailer, and 3ph carryall soon in the future

Where am I being dumb? What are we missing?

My wife and I are in our late 40s, in good condition, but conscious we no longer have boundless energy and of course physical limitations can bubble up. The land purchase has been a lot of $, so we don't want to waste money. On the other hand, we're self employed and days we work on our land are days we could be earning some money instead. So it would be false economy to shoestring and have "if only"s take 2X the time.

Go ahead! Tell us how to spend our money

 

[TheMadOne]

L4060. The L3901 has the same chassis as the 3301, and I consider the L3301 underweight for it's hp. If you really need to stay narrow, L3560.

 

[ericm979]

My land being steep and wooded I have limited places to operate and often in tight quarters. I took advice from this board to go around my land with a piece of pipe cut to the width of the tractor plus a bit to see if it'd fit (keeping in mind that the front tires take wider path on turns). With R4s (wider than R1s) on spacers my tractor's 70 inches at the rear tire sidewalls. It fits everywhere I wanted it. One spot I mow requires a 5 point turn but I can do it. The much smaller B7100 I had before could turn around there with ease. Everywhere else the 3725 is far superior.

The L01 series are bare bones low feature models with light weight and low loader capacity.

With several hundred acres and 2.5 miles of road, spend the money to get good tools.

How will you store the tractor and implements?

 

[Jchonline]

It sounds like you have thought about it quite a bit, which is great. You have mostly ground engaging tasks, which means weight is probably most important. ATV trails do give me pause, especially building new ones with a larger CUT. It just isnt easy to maneuver a tractor in dense woods. If your trees are well spaced, then this may be a non issue.

The standard L series is a relatively light machine and while it will get the job done, but with such a long road it is going to take time.

Backhoes are very expensive. With your tasks and property size I would be inclined to recommend a TLB (L47, M62). They are heavy, awesome at moving dirt, and great at digging. Get the TLB, do what you need over the next few years then sell it and get something more subtle. This will put you in the 50-70k price range, but there are options for 0% financing if you so choose. One major consideration for a machine of this size is trailering. You wont be able to move it with a standard truck and trailer.

Maybe sell it for a cab tractor after you get the road, drainage, and trails in order.

 

[houska]

Thanks for the fast reactions!

Appreciate the push to not skimp on weight. Was insufficiently focused on that.

@TheMadOne, will look into the Kubota Lxx60 range -- sorta pigeonholded them as "premium features for those who sit in their tractor all day", neglecting the real spec differences.
@ericm979, thanks(!?) for adding another brand to my list. Branson wasn't on my horizon, and I see they have a dealer just a 5 min detour from my usual drive to the property!
@Jchonline, appreciate the push to look at TLBs. Will do so, but my immediate reaction is that I may have been unclear above: I think we have a lot of brush clearing, basic trail cutting, and road *fixing* to do, but less heavy earth moving and not much full-fledged road building. So much more grapple than backhoe, though there will be some. And when real earth moving is the order of the day, there's an underemployed road builder with 3 tracked excavators and 2 dozers decorating his front yard 30 mins away. So I'll look into it more, but I think TLB might be half-pregnant for us in our circumstances.

I see the Kioti CK4010 is heavier than the Lxx01 Kubotas, though less than the Lxx60 Kubotas and the Branson. Do you share the same lightweight/entry-level concerns about it?

Keep'em coming and thanks again!

 

[shooterdon]

Would it make sense to have the road done by a contractor? 4km is a long road but once it is in decent shape it may not need much. If the contractor did the ditches and culverts at the same time you could save 8k on the backhoe. Then a smaller tractor would do the trails and other maintenance work. There is an advantage to getting the road done quickly and properly instead of using it as a learning experience if time is limited and you are not experienced.

Obviously you want Quick Attach for the FEL and grapple. Add the extra valves you need for the grapple and top and tilt for rear.

Think seriously about putting up a pole barn to store your tractor and implements. A section of the barn can be finished for temporary living quarters.

 

[Avondale]

I have a 2006 Kioti DK 35 for much the same reasons you mentioned. I would suggest you be aware that most backhoes have a sub-frame, which has a limiting factor on ground clearance and also, with the BH on, you need to consider a larger turning radius. All doable but as a novice, I got myself into a few jams by not paying attention to these facts.

 

[Jchonline]

Sounds good on the TLB option, they arent for everyone. Grand L has a much heavier frame than the standard L. 3560 or 4060 are great options. Branson makes a nice heavy machine as well. Of note they were just bought by TYM, so no one really knows what will happen with the Brand. I hope the keep it around! I agree just skip the backhoe. Have the contractor put in culverts at the time the road is fixed, you should be able to use a BB, Rear blade, or LPGS to keep it maintained with a tractor.

 

[4570Man]

Sounds good on the TLB option, they arent for everyone. Grand L has a much heavier frame than the standard L. 3560 or 4060 are great options. Branson makes a nice heavy machine as well. Of note they were just bought by TYM, so no one really knows what will happen with the Brand. I hope the keep it around! I agree just skip the backhoe. Have the contractor put in culverts at the time the road is fixed, you should be able to use a BB, Rear blade, or LPGS to keep it maintained with a tractor.

The Grand L is a much nicer machine than the standard L. I used to have a L3240 and currently a L3800. There’s a lot of bells and whistles but there’s a lot of features that make operation nicer. The ones I can think of would be first and foremost the 6 speed HST is NICE. Then the machine was heavier, the loader was stronger, the seat was better, the 3 point hitch was better, the tires were better. And there’s a lot more features that don’t make a lot of difference but are still nice.

 

[ericm979]

Branson makes a nice heavy machine as well. Of note they were just bought by TYM, so no one really knows what will happen with the Brand. I hope the keep it around!

It's been over two years and Branson's since come out with new models that are all Branson. There's one common Branson/TYM model (using an engine from neither company). It's a sub compact. I think the engine is smaller than Branson had in their range. It's hard to say what companies will do in the future but so far it looks like TYM is leaving Kukje to sell Bransons.

My 3725 has filled rear tires. With a 550lb box blade the rear tires get light when I'm lifting something at the loader capacity (i.e. decent sized log in the grapple). I have a weight box that I need to fill with cement. That'll get it to 900lbs or so.

The Kubota HST+ sounds like it'd be really useful for loader work.

 

[jeff9366]

L4060. The L3901 has the same chassis as the 3301, and I consider the L3301 underweight for it's hp. If you really need to stay narrow, L3560.

L3301/L3901 = 2,770 pounds bare tractor.

'Grand L' L3560 = 3,495 pounds bare tractor.
My L3560 is 62" wide with factory R4/industrial tires.
Kubota Web Site: https://www.kubotausa.com/docs/default-source/brochure-sheets/l60.pdf?sfvrsn=bad1e991_6


'Grand L' L4060/L4760 = 3,570 pounds bare tractor.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers.

The built in adjustable widths for all rear wheels/tires on the Grand Ls may be a very important feature for you. Spreading rear wheels for a wider tractor stance is the first step in improving tractor stability on slopes.

L3301/L3901 increase rear wheel width with R4/industrial tires only with aftermarket wheel spacers.

My land being steep and wooded I have limited places to operate and often in tight quarters. I took advice from this board to go around my land with a piece of 1-1/4" PVC pipe cut to the width of the potential tractor plus a bit to see if it'd fit (keeping in mind that the front tires take wider path on turns).

What is the altitude on your property? If your property is over 4,000 feet you may wish to consider a turbocharged engine. If your property is 5,000 feet or higher you should seriously contemplate a model with a turbocharged engine.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear ballast third.


In your situation, probably as many tractor owners upgrade for additional Loader lift capacity as upgrade for additional tractor weight. Consider optional Kubota L2296 heavy duty loader bucket for your tough conditions. Indestructible.

Your property sounds divine. My congratulations.

Your opening post is extremely well thought out. How nice.

Well worth shopping Kioti and Branson in addition to Kubota.
Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.



VIDEOS: Kubota Standard L Series VS. Grand L Series - YouTube

Kubota HST Plus Transmission Features - YouTube

 

[houska]

Thanks for the continuing feedback. Many things to mull and explore, in particularly weight+width/stability vs maneuverability in tight spaces.

Answering a few of the questions raised by those replying:

• Altitude is minimal, ~600' (580 at main road entry, 750 at highest point - thank you Canadian govt online GIS data!)
• Storage: Yes, the crystal ball has already sighted a pole barn in our future. But there's permitting issues. (Permanent structures > 108 sq ft need a permit, and "accessory buildings" can be permitted only after primary use established. There are zoning workarounds but they have consequences, some good some bad.) So for the first year while we figure that out, we'll put up a ShelterLogic roundtop "tent garage", pray it lasts (they have issues in wind and heavy snow...) and next year hopefully be set to build more permanent storage.
• Roadwork: we don't need to rebuild the 4kms of road. It needs maintenance - 1 of the 17 (carefully marked by previous owner) culverts clearly needs replacing; 2 short sections of road and one longer one need flattening; in a few places ditches need clearing and/or widening, and I'm sure more will emerge with time. But we will want to (re)clear overgrown abandoned ATV trails. There's a 800m new road section we'd like to build some day, but that won't be us, that will be the guy with the dozer and excavator. But I'm listening to the advice being given that a backhoe may be expensive for what benefit it will bring us.

 

[LukeDuke30]

Get the heavier tractor. If you can afford it, remote hydraulics, suspension seat and filled tires go a very long way. If I could do it over again, I would have spent another $5000 and purchased the Massey 1742. Much heavier, and completely loaded versus my Economy series 1734. Whatever you pick, the heavier the better. My 1734 never runs out of power; it runs out of traction from lack of weight. Even with the loader, and loaded tires, it weighs about 3800 lbs.

 

[Avondale]

I have a BH and now can not imagine not having one. Stones and stumps are two more good reasons to have one. I live in SD&G, always have stones popping up every spring. Good symbiotic relationship, take the stones off my fields and use them to fill in ruts on my wood trails. Stump removal for food plot development is another great time/work saver. Bob
.

 

[Egon]

Canadian Shield wilderness: Can we presume that means rock, lots of pine & spruce trees, wet areas and some areas that are soft and can turn to mud. Also include isolation and distances from facilities/services.

If those factors are present be aware of what needs to be done to get the tractor out of stuck/broken situations with gear you can carry. This may be the most important part tractor buying decision. As you haVe to keep it mobile under its own power.

From your description of required work it would seem it could all be done with the bucket, toothed cutting edge and perhaps grapple. A backhoe would add another dimension when it comes to doing the jobs. Brush, stumps and rock debri can be handled which is probably the major job in reclaiming and making new trails. It is very versatile for scraping dirt off of rock shelf. Buckets have a hard time of it doing that.

The backhoe combined with bucket is very versatile at getting out of bad situations.

All items to consider.

 

[ericm979]

It often costs less to get the BH with the tractor than to buy it later. At least check out the price both ways. With the amount of land you have plus building structures you'll probably want a BH at times.

I didn't even consider a BH when I bought the tractor. I was trying to keep the price down, in part because my wife thought it was mostly a going to be a toy. Now I have a list of projects that could use a BH. Turns out the tractor's been far more useful then she (or I) expected, and we could have justified a BH or a more expensive tractor.

 

[sdquick]

I will share a little of the strong, basic messages I heard when selecting a tractor.
I was told many, many times that tractor weight is the most important part of getting the right tractor. So I second the comments about getting the right (heaver) weight.
I have never heard anyone regret buying too much tractor, but have heard many sell and upgrade. when deciding between two levels I would always go bigger. I chose the L (L2501) over the B and have been very happy.
The other controversial topic that you bring up is the backhoe. I did a lot of research on this and the information (opinions) I got can be summed up this way:
People that have them love them. BUT, They are very expensive and give wear and tear to the tractor. They are not as capable as a rented small backhoe and not nearly as capable or efficient as an experienced operator that is hired with his equipment. If you have a few specific jobs in mind you should add up the cost to hire someone or rent equipment compared to the purchase cost (and tractor wear and tear). For me I found it was hard to justify the expense. For those that have constant needs and especially emergency needs (flooding, etc) that requires the equipment to be available when needed I think it is well worth it.
Good luck on your new adventure!!

 

[fried1765]

Thanks for the continuing feedback. Many things to mull and explore, in particularly weight+width/stability vs maneuverability in tight spaces.

Answering a few of the questions raised by those replying:

• Altitude is minimal, ~600' (580 at main road entry, 750 at highest point - thank you Canadian govt online GIS data!)
• Storage: Yes, the crystal ball has already sighted a pole barn in our future. But there's permitting issues. (Permanent structures > 108 sq ft need a permit, and "accessory buildings" can be permitted only after primary use established. There are zoning workarounds but they have consequences, some good some bad.) So for the first year while we figure that out, we'll put up a ShelterLogic roundtop "tent garage", pray it lasts (they have issues in wind and heavy snow...) and next year hopefully be set to build more permanent storage.
• Roadwork: we don't need to rebuild the 4kms of road. It needs maintenance - 1 of the 17 (carefully marked by previous owner) culverts clearly needs replacing; 2 short sections of road and one longer one need flattening; in a few places ditches need clearing and/or widening, and I'm sure more will emerge with time. But we will want to (re)clear overgrown abandoned ATV trails. There's a 800m new road section we'd like to build some day, but that won't be us, that will be the guy with the dozer and excavator. But I'm listening to the advice being given that a backhoe may be expensive for what benefit it will bring us.

Backhoes for under 50HP farm type tractors are fun to play with, but for real work they are a waste of money.
If you really want a backhoe, go find a good used, full size, dedicated TLB.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Backhoes for under 50HP farm type tractors are fun to play with, but for real work they are a waste of money.
If you really want a backhoe, go find a good used, full size, dedicated TLB.

Assume that was a joke.

 

[4570Man]

Assume that was a joke.

Not as far as I’m concerned. Tractor backhoes suck compared to real TLBs. Excavators are even better but at the expense of versatility.