Wood Screws

[4570Man]

I can strip any screw head, any time, anywhere. Slot, Phillips, Square, Torx or any other name you want to call them, I can strip them out. Haven't met one yet I couldn't.

What's the one that looks like a Phillips but isn't? Angles are slightly different and a Phillips won't go in all the way.

Then there's another; typical Phillips 'X' pattern with another smaller 'X' pattern that makes it look like a star.

It sounds like operator error. Use the right size bit, use a bit that’s not worn out. Make sure the screw head isn’t full of dirt. Make sure the bit is hitting the screw straight. Use an impact over a drill. Unless somebody else has already partially stripped the head they usually break off before they strip.

 

[4570Man]

We have square head screws but I don’t find them to be much improvement over Phillips. They strip pretty bad and the bits wear out fast.

 

[/pine]

I once watched an old country guy installing some hinges...he was using a hammer to pound the screws in like they were nails...I asked him about it and he said the slots were just in case you wanted to take them out...!

FWIW...a #1 square head driver is the best tool for installing/replacing light switches and receptacles...if you use the side screws rather than the tension holes...

 

[4570Man]

I once watched an old country guy installing some hinges...he was using a hammer to pound the screws in like they were nails...I asked him about it and he said the slots were just in case you wanted to take them out...!

FWIW...a #1 square head driver is the best tool for installing/replacing light switches and receptacles...if you use the side screws rather than the tension holes...

He sounds like an idiot.

 

[/pine]

He sounds like an idiot.

I posted the anecdote because I thought it was funny and topical...was not intended as a character profile...
FWIW...
A craftsman he was not but the man was the most skilled woodsman I've ever known...he'd give you the shirt off his back...he had two purple hearts and a silver star...he died from lasting issues of being shot after confronting criminals that were harassing a group of campers...he is missed by many...

 

[rgr33]

I was a big fan of the square drive screws for many years, right up to when I went to HD and couldn’t find them any more.
Saw the torx, saw the higher price, and silently cursed the HD buyers.

Now I am sold on them, trying to use up all the Phillips and square drive so I don’t have to deal with them anymore. I still do like the odd hex head screw, if it doesn’t need to be flush on the surface.

Every new thing that comes on to the market must prove its self to me first, as I am a creature of habit, not an early adapter, hence the John Deere gear drive in the barn many years before the HST came to stay.

 

[LittleBill21]

to be honest, the minute i went to a impact driver to run screw the head type really didn't matter, i backed out phillips out of a 40 year old deck without issue. if your using good bits that aren't cammed out, i have no trouble running a 4 inch screw non pre drilled into pretty much anything wood based

 

[Wagtail]

... I also lubed the screws with bees wax.

That brought back a memory! I remember my Grandfather having an old bar of soap on his workbench. There were 'grooves' on it from him wiping the threads of wood-screws along it for lubrication.

 

[bunyip]

I use Kreg square drive which are probably the same as Robertson, apart from that a collection of Phillips, Posi and hex heads for outdoor applications that don't need to be pretty.
Also have some screws with what could be described as small blades on the underside of the head that countersink themselves, posi drive but don't know the brand.
Have a three blade head for security screws, no screws though, they use them on road signs and reflectors so they can't be removed by anyone except the Government who put them in.

 

[Oaktree]

It sounds like operator error. Use the right size bit, use a bit that痴 not worn out. Make sure the screw head isn稚 full of dirt. Make sure the bit is hitting the screw straight.

All good advice, but some screws especially the ones that come with window shades or other stuff you hang on the wall seem to have a head that's a little too big for a #1 Phillips, but too small for a #2. Dunno if it's some weird metric size or what. I always throw them out & use real screws.

I really don't have the problems with Phillips-head screws that some have. Sure beats slotted by a mile!

I remember my Grandfather having an old bar of soap on his workbench. There were 'grooves' on it from him wiping the threads of wood-screws along it for lubrication.

I always keep a block of paraffin in my shop for that reason...actually lots of uses like coating the top of my table saw so wood slides easier and old drawer tracks that don't have slides. Learned that in high school shop class.

No flames please, but I've been using drywall screws in carpentry projects. Cheap and work great.

 

[check]

That's where I had the most trouble with them in a deck screw version. The heads filled up with junk and got packed in by foot traffic and weather. Nearly impossible to clean out enough to get a driver seated.

I agree that debris is a problem. If I have to remove a bunch of deck boards that have been screwed down with the Robertsons screw I have to first of all get a compressor and blow out each screw head.

 

[Deere Dude]

In 2004 I built a deck and wanted some easy screws to put in. I was used to #2 Phillips from previous jobs a had a devil of a time putting longer than 1 1/4 ones in anything. I bought 25# of #3 Phillips deck screws and was amazed at how nice they went in.

This year I built another deck and have been looking for #3 Phillip screws but you cannot find them anywhere but I would have loaded up on them. Very, very hesitantly I bought 25# of number 25 Torx head screws and found out they surpassed the #3 Phillips by a lot. I could drive 4" and 5" screws into treated wood like a shot. I am sold on them and now I have a collection of sizes.

 

[ArlyA]

Torx are all that's available here, at least for longer ones. Either them or Pozidriv is all I'll get in the 2" and longer department.

 

[PILOON]

Robertson was a Scot that invented the square drive about WW2 era. USA wanted the patent but being a Scot he wanted royalties which were denied and so it almost died then and there.
However the cabinet making folks liked it as it was easy to automate so it has been gaining ever since.

In Canada it is probably 75% of the fastener market and 4 sure the favorite for decking trade.
It adapts very well to hammed driving and one benefit is that it self holds on the end of a driver. Try that with a Phillips.

Then very similar to Phillips is Reed and Prince both which resemble each other but that's where the resemblance stops. The drivers are not exactly the same.

I suspect automation favors the Robertson but beware of cheep offshore production as they do not make the square hole deep enough to make for a good grip.

PS, all my screw stock is Robertson and I stock from 3/4" to 4" in my screw stock.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Yep, sold on the new torx drive screws. Just did a deck using 4" #10's for the joists. Pulled everyone tight, including a few slightly twisted ones. Didn't strip or break a single one. I did another small 6x10 deck for my neighbors shed. Found some 3" Phillips head deck screws at HD, about 1/2 the price of the Torx. Don't know if they were on close out due to the price. They were #10's also, only stripped a couple out, but they were going into knots. I think part of the success driving the screws was using my new (first time ever) impact driver. I think that in itself made a difference with the Phillips screws.

 

[Tompet]

I switched to Robertson years ago, but as SS screws became popular I found them to be soft and easily stripped screw heads in difficult materials. I think that's what most people figured out, since Torx has nearly replaced Robertson style in all quality screws in the box stores. I used all Torx SS screws in a deck last year and it's amazing how much better that style is compared to Phillips or Robertson.
Years ago I would struggle with the old tapered wood screws. They were horrible I thought. Then I found plans to build a maple woodworking bench. The plans called for solid maple with large solid brass wood screws as fasteners. I followed the plans and learned about pre-drilling the proper sized holes for both the threads and the upper shanks, and how that varied by screw size. I also lubed the screws with bees wax. I'm still amazed, thinking back on how I assembled that bench, never messing up a screw head and having every one suck the wood together like I had never seen. I learned a lot and still use those old style wood screws occasionally, now that I know the methods.

Yes, for old slotted wood screws the proper pre drilling is the difference. I still have my dads old carpenter tool boxes and there are a couple different sets of drills that look like a silhouette of various size wood screws for a perfect flush mount pilot hole.

But do I use them? No, right to torx these days! But I appreciate the look you described.

 

[oosik]

As I remember - back in '82 when I built my decks - Phillips heads were fairly new. I used 3 1/2" Phillips heads and dipped them, by the bunch, in hot bees wax. Insures complete coverage - uses less wax - a whole lot easier that rubbing, one at a time, on a lump of bees wax.

A waxed screw went in so much easier - had to take care not to burry it too deep into the deck board.

I have a set - 4 sizes - of slotted screw drivers. There is an outer tube that will slide down over the head of the slotted screw and hold it in place. I only use slotted brass screws when making antique furniture. Otherwise - just a PITA.

 

[check]

Robertson was a Scot that invented the square drive about WW2 era. USA wanted the patent but being a Scot he wanted royalties which were denied and so it almost died then and there.
However the cabinet making folks liked it as it was easy to automate so it has been gaining ever since.

In Canada it is probably 75% of the fastener market and 4 sure the favorite for decking trade.
It adapts very well to hammed driving and one benefit is that it self holds on the end of a driver. Try that with a Phillips.

Then very similar to Phillips is Reed and Prince both which resemble each other but that's where the resemblance stops. The drivers are not exactly the same.

I suspect automation favors the Robertson but beware of cheep offshore production as they do not make the square hole deep enough to make for a good grip.

PS, all my screw stock is Robertson and I stock from 3/4" to 4" in my screw stock.

Me too. Robertson is pretty much all I use.

 

[PILOON]

Re Robertson screws; I found that the bit quality makes all the difference, pay a bit more and buy the ones that have the square end press fitted into the shank.
Usually easy to spot as the square insert is generally black.
With a quality bit even a 4" screw can be held without the aid of magnetized bits (but magnet ends are sure my favorite)

Real life story: When hanging my daughter's doors we used quality robertson screws, nice long ones, to assure the hardware would not loosen.
Well she was broken into and the robbers had to seriously kick the door in to access.
Well that steel clad door was seriously bent and the door frame split beyond repair.

Sadly being cottage country these invasions occur all to often with late fall being the usual time frame. Last year 10 homes were hit.

 

[Budweiser John]

Along with Torex head screws, Simpson ‘Ledger Locks’ beat the heck out of lag bolts and depending on the size are available in torex or hex heads.
I don’t worry so much about the fastener cost it’s the speed, convience,and predictably that counts.
GEK is the brand I like the best for wood and deck screws.

B. John