Towing heavy on a 1/2 ton

[Sysop]

I haven't seen it mentioned, but even stepping up to a 3/4 or 1 ton class of truck, specs will still likely deem WDH a must once you dig into the fine print. I know of none of the factory hitches that are rated to tow 14k without WDH. The trucks are, and some third party hitches are; but not the factory hitches. Factory hitches all want WDH for loads that big.

The main difficulty in connecting a WDH is the fact you need to run the trailer jack up and down while lifting on the back of the truck to get the bars installed. I think there would be a market for a heavy duty electric jack for utility trailers like there are for campers. Someone invent one and I'll buy it.

 

[mikester]

How can that rust situation happen..... in CANADA?
I thought there was an annual (or bi-annual) provincial inspection required for every vehicle?

Only commercial vehicles (i.e. you have a CVOR) have to get inspected. Half and 3/4 tons trucks are considered personal use unless you remove the OEM box. Personal vehicles only get inspected if title changes or you get new plates after being off the road (unlicensed) for any time.

No rust in Canada? In winter our roads here are white from salt - not snow. In the past few years the cities are saving money on grader blades by dumping thousands of tons of salt each year to try and melt the snow instead of plowing it.

Everyone drives relatively new cars here. The old ones just disintegrate and vanish after 10 years or so.

 

[Jstpssng]

Only commercial vehicles (i.e. you have a CVOR) have to get inspected. Half and 3/4 tons trucks are considered personal use unless you remove the OEM box. Personal vehicles only get inspected if title changes or you get new plates after being off the road (unlicensed) for any time.

No rust in Canada? In winter our roads here are white from salt - not snow. In the past few years the cities are saving money on grader blades by dumping thousands of tons of salt each year to try and melt the snow instead of plowing it.

Everyone drives relatively new cars here. The old ones just disintegrate and vanish after 10 years or so.

The stuff they are putting on our roads is worse than salt; and they start spreading it before snowfall as they say that it makes plowing easier. It took a toll on brakelines on older vehicles for a while. But hey, the day after a storm you can do 70 on your way to the local Walmart.

 

[prof fate]

Everybody seems to forget that 10K trailer rating is tied to a single vehicle or combination of vehicles exceeding 26,001 pounds.

Sorry, no.

A CDL brings down my legal BAC whether i'm in a commercial vehicle or my private vehicle.
My license allows me to drive any "one" vehicle of any weight - a triaxle dump, say, for personal use or for hire.
And I cannot tow a trailer exceeding 9,990 - it's specifically stated as such on a CDL class B. Class A is tractor trailer, so trailer weight isn't limited by one's license.

My license isn't different depending if i'm working commercially or for myself in a personal vehicle.

Like a bus - the SAME vehicle, as a 'bus' you need a CDL. If it's registered as an RV, any old license works - even if it's well over 26k pounds or has air brakes.

CDL's are so specific I can't drive a manual transmission commercially unless i take the road test in a stick shift truck or bus.

If you go for your class b test in a tractor (as in semi) with a fifth wheel they won't let you use it. take off the plate, and you can use it for the test. Absolutely no difference in the vehicle's size, handling, rules of the road, etc - but the plate on the back makes it a Class A vehicle - even without a trailer!

Hey, license's are government things - they don't have to make sense.

 

[tractorshopper]

My F-150 is much older than the OP's, so this may not all apply but I think some will. My max tow rating is ~9,600 lbs (2006 model). My receiver that came on the truck was only rated for 5,000 lbs. I bought a new receiver and installed it for 10,000 lbs as well as the B&W 10,000 lb adjustable tri-ball system so everything was in line.

I have towed up to about 7,500-8,000 lbs repeatedly with this truck. Will it do it? Yes. Horsepower is very sufficient. Is it really the right truck for that job? Not in my opinion. I think all the truck companies throw numbers out there for ratings to out-do each other and while I'm sure yours is rated to tow more than mine, I'm not sure that it really is much more capable than my '06 is. The reason comes down to the items others have mentioned, weight of the tow vehicle vs. the weight being towed allows you to get "pushed" around while towing even with the trailer brakes fully functioning. Quick braking, emergency maneuvers, downhill grades with curves, old folk pulling right out in front of you, young folks pulling right out in front of you, etc. I have towed similar weight and same trailers with my friend's F-350 and it is night and day difference. You don't even know the trailer is back there behind his truck.

If you live in a flat area, you're probably in better shape than me. While my truck has handled the chores over the years, I am convinced it is not the best fit of a truck to be handling these loads with which is why my next truck will be a 3/4 or 1 ton. I really think 5,000 lbs is more the right amount to safely be towed with a 1/2 ton truck.

 

[newbury]

Overtaxed,
Here is my two cents. A weight distributing hitch for what you are doing is going to be a PITA. Reason is after you load it you will have to install the torsion bars on the hitch and how they are adjusted is going to change based on your load. IMO I would not plan on using a WDH with a dump trailer.

And Overtaxed, I'm sure if you get in any legal troubles "truckdiagnostics" will take care of them.

If you are always putting in about the same load the torsion bars will be adjusted the same.

I haven't seen it mentioned, but even stepping up to a 3/4 or 1 ton class of truck, specs will still likely deem WDH a must once you dig into the fine print. I know of none of the factory hitches that are rated to tow 14k without WDH. The trucks are, and some third party hitches are; but not the factory hitches. Factory hitches all want WDH for loads that big.

The main difficulty in connecting a WDH is the fact you need to run the trailer jack up and down while lifting on the back of the truck to get the bars installed. I think there would be a market for a heavy duty electric jack for utility trailers like there are for campers. Someone invent one and I'll buy it.

I install my bars on the Equalizer by using a farm jack (which I keep in the truck ALL the time) to raise the bars a few inches.

 

[thekkfan]

I think there would be a market for a heavy duty electric jack for utility trailers like there are for campers. Someone invent one and I'll buy it.

What are you looking to replace? I know they make them up to 5000lb for camper/utility, they even make the heavier gooseneck/horse trailer jacks electric and hydro. Pricey though.

 

[Renze]

Half ton trucks have saggy springs and thin rollbars. A customer of a previous employer used to tow 11.000 pounds with them and we installed a Firestind AiRide kit on them. Slightly inflated to lift the weight off the leaf springs made them drive much smoother when empty, but with a load on it, it tracked much better and had less sway.

Even when not using the increased spring capacity to carry load, the more rigid rear suspension greatly reduces sway.

And about brakes, the max you can brake, is the axle weight x friction coefficient. Which means the only way to substantially increase brake performance is to increase the weight on braked axles, i.e. get trailer brakes on all axles.

 

[shooterdon]

After reading most of this, if you only need to haul 5 tons 5% of time (15 times a year), buying a dump trailer and the right hitch may be a poor investment unless you find a great deal on a used one. If the supplier is only 15 miles away, I doubt he will charge more than $50 per load to truck it. Driving your own vehicle will cost about $15...so the additional cost to have it delivered will be $35 per load.

Take the $10k you will spend on a new dump trailer, invest it at 4% and you come out ahead. If you need to finance the trailer, the numbers are even worse.

 

[Overtaxed]

After reading most of this, if you only need to haul 5 tons 5% of time (15 times a year), buying a dump trailer and the right hitch may be a poor investment unless you find a great deal on a used one. If the supplier is only 15 miles away, I doubt he will charge more than $50 per load to truck it. Driving your own vehicle will cost about $15...so the additional cost to have it delivered will be $35 per load.

Take the $10k you will spend on a new dump trailer, invest it at 4% and you come out ahead. If you need to finance the trailer, the numbers are even worse.

Well, this is exactly what I've been thinking about, the ROI on it. I can get 20 tons delivered for ~400 dollars, or, at the quarry, it's about 1/2 that price (220). Each 20 ton load is 4 trips with a dump trailer, so, every 40 trips with the dump trailer saves me 10 load fees, ~2000 bucks. So I'd need to do about 300 tons before I hit a break even on just crush and run (120 trips). Wow, that's a lot of back and forth, but in miles terms, it's not that bad (120 trips, figure 30 miles round trip each time, ~4000 miles). However, just seeing that number "120 trips" seems a bit daunting. I guess if I split it up a bit and think about how I'd do this, it's only a month's worth of 4 trips a day. Still seems like a lot though! I've gone through about 150 tons of crush and run so far, and I probably have another 200 or so in direct line of sight for planned projects. Still though, just thinking about it, 200 tons is only 10 truckloads, I can get that dropped here in a day by a guy with a truck.

Part of this is that finding the "guy with a truck" and getting him to, you know, call me back/show up/deliver on time to the right spot is a bit of crapshoot. Also, there are other things I could save on, I usually get a tri-axle or 2 of mulch a season, I'm sure I could do pretty good hauling that myself (I think the limit there is volume, not weight).

I think I've known for awhile that the financials don't look great for dump. It's more about the convenience of it, if the quarry is open, I can roll on over there and get 5 tons, no notice, no coordination. In the truck, 10K of rock at the property in <1hr (for 55 bucks!). But maybe this is one of those things where the thought of it sounds better than the reality.

Also, figuring in I have to take the value of the used dump trailer into account. They seem to lose almost no value if they are kept in decent shape, I've been looking for a used one for a long time, none of them make sense because the prices are too close to new. So, assuming I decided to sell it in a year or 2 (doubtful, but, hey, it's part of the financial consideration), I have the feeling the numbers would start to look real good, even hauling 100 tons of stone, I'll bet I'd hit near break even (doing 20 trips to the quarry, saving 1000 in delivery fees, I could probably resell the trailer for 1000 less than I bought it for at that point).

Of course, that doesn't take into account the wear/tear on the truck.. And that could be substantial.

 

[dnw64]

Of course, that doesn't take into account the wear/tear on the truck.. And that could be substantial.

And maybe I missed it, but what about the value of your time? Even if you don't want to put a dollar value on it, what else could you be doing? What is that worth to you? If nothing, ok then. But my time is worth quite a bit to me. You do realize that they stopped making it, right?

 

[Fallon]

And maybe I missed it, but what about the value of your time? Even if you don't want to put a dollar value on it, what else could you be doing? What is that worth to you? If nothing, ok then. But my time is worth quite a bit to me. You do realize that they stopped making it, right?

Nope they keep making it every millisecond of every day. I kind of doubt I'll be able to consume more than a finite amount though.

 

[prof fate]

We need sawdust for our horses. Sometimes we know someone that does it, but it's getting harder and harder to find someone.

Options - get it ourselves..so shovel it off the truck...can borrow a friends dump trailer, but it has no tall sides and sawdust is a bulky item, not heavy. We can do the trips..but our time is preciouse as we have so little of it. And to get enought we'd have to make 4 trips - 5 to 6 hours, plus unloading in the barn if we have to shovel becomes unpleasant, both in time and physically. I'd much rather do most anything else.

We can hire a guy - get 10 yards in the barn, $200. We'd like more sawdust than that to get thru the winter.
We can hire a guy with a triaxle dump - won't fit in the barn (OH BOY!! Tractor tiem!!) and get a LOT of sawdust - we want 12-13 yards, $100 for the sawdust and he wants $100 to deliver it.

We could rent a dump truck..$375 a day. Makes no sense.

Buying a dump trailer, building sides, etc makes no sense either.

When you factor in time, gas, etc - let someone else fetch it.

As for 300t of gravel - ifyou're buying that much many places will cut you a deal - free delivery or lower price per ton that offsets that delivery fee.

 

[TMGT]

I have a dump trailer and live <15mi from the quarry, I have my gravel delivered 20t at a time unless i only need 5t or less. It's just not worth my time and the wear and tear on the truck and trailer honestly.
I've never had a situation where I had too much gravel, so I just get 20t every time. Call up the quarry and tell them how much I need and they have my card on file, if I call in the morning its typically delivered later that day.

If I have to make more then 2 trips its typically not worth it to me to use my equipment.

 

[Jstpssng]

We need sawdust for our horses. Sometimes we know someone that does it, but it's getting harder and harder to find someone.

Options - get it ourselves..so shovel it off the truck...can borrow a friends dump trailer, but it has no tall sides and sawdust is a bulky item, not heavy. We can do the trips..but our time is preciouse as we have so little of it. And to get enought we'd have to make 4 trips - 5 to 6 hours, plus unloading in the barn if we have to shovel becomes unpleasant, both in time and physically. I'd much rather do most anything else.

We can hire a guy - get 10 yards in the barn, $200. We'd like more sawdust than that to get thru the winter.
We can hire a guy with a triaxle dump - won't fit in the barn (OH BOY!! Tractor tiem!!) and get a LOT of sawdust - we want 12-13 yards, $100 for the sawdust and he wants $100 to deliver it.

We could rent a dump truck..$375 a day. Makes no sense.

Buying a dump trailer, building sides, etc makes no sense either.

When you factor in time, gas, etc - let someone else fetch it.

As for 300t of gravel - ifyou're buying that much many places will cut you a deal - free delivery or lower price per ton that offsets that delivery fee.

Some friends were into barrel racing when their kids were growing up so they kept 5 horses, and occasionally a couple for friends. They had an older F700 with an enclosed body that they would use to haul hay every year; then they would bring it to a saw mill where the guys would blow shavings into it, then call when it was full. It worked great for both parties and reduced the amount of handling.

 

[dnw64]

I've never had a situation where I had too much gravel...

Words of wisdom, there.

 

[dnw64]

They had an older F700 with an enclosed body that they would use to haul hay every year; then they would bring it to a saw mill where the guys would blow shavings into it, then call when it was full.

If/when that works, I love it. But businesses run every day. Did they have a roster of other F700s to call on and be there when the full one pulled out?

We are a wood shop and produce a 53' trailer of kiln-dried wood dust/shavings/chips every 1-2 weeks. There is no way we would count on a random assortment of farmers who may or may not need "shavings" at any given time. We did that for many years, and it was a constant hassle. With our current arrangement, we call someone the day before we need the trailer changed out, they bring a new one, swap it out, AND pay us around $20/ton (I don't recall the exact current amount, but it's generally around $250 per load) for the pleasure. They take it back and turn it into $250/ton pellets. That's what I call win-win.

 

[Jstpssng]

You are looking at it from the other end of the spectrum. I was just commenting on what worked for them, and seemed to work for the mill, also.

 

[dnw64]

You are looking at it from the other end of the spectrum. I was just commenting on what worked for them, and seemed to work for the mill, also.

As I said

If/when that works, I love it.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I've driven heavy loads with lighter trucks and heavy loads with heavy trucks, and I can tell you this I will never ever tow a heavy load with a light vehicle. I needed to panic stop with the light vehicle and the trailer and load pushed me throgh a red light.
The next day I purchased a F450 and nothing pushed me around.
Tow heavy and you will either die or kill someone. Not worth it.