Need advice on my kioti

[deezler]

that implies the transmission slips. compare that effect to a geared tractor, the transmission don't slip, and just bogs down the engine instead if you're in too high a gear.. automatic transmissions have been designed for decades without slipping but a tiny bit..

No, he meant the ground speed varies because you adjust how far you are pushing the pedal with your foot. To keep the rpms constant and not bogging down, sometimes you have to back off as you head up a hill, and vehicle ground speed slows.

 

[Coyote machine]

Well, I did what you ask me to do and sent a request to change my op title to " I need advice on my Kioti " now I wait and see if it changes.

OK. Thanks for following my suggestion- I was not aware you had done so, because you did not say you had until now.

As far as your tractor's performance, your question is a very subjective one and requires specific information about the hills steepness/grade and length, and how you approach it, what implements you might be carrying, etc.
Most of the posters have concluded your tractor is performing as intended and the issue is the range selection needs to be in a different 'gear' other than high range. This is NOT a tractor error or defect, (unless your machine's relief valve settings are below specs), regardless, you need to chose the right range selection, which is most likely to be M or possibly even L, but definitely NOT H.

What some seem to not comprehend is that an HST tractor is NOT a gear tractor and will not perform the same as one. It doesn't make one better or worse, just like a gear truck or car is no better than a automatic transmission truck or car. They are choices available and personal ones at that.

 

[the old grind]

I will give you an idea of how high the hills are. One hill is 1 mile long and I am going from flat ground to 1300 feet to the top. 2nd hill is 1/4 of a mile going from flat to about 500 feet and there are a few not so high in between. Now if you can find a hill around your area that is close to the same height and distance then you tell me how your machine performs as I am curious.

If I'm reading these numbers right, ~25% grade, ~38% grade.

MY barely 3k lb 35 hp HST would struggle with these unloaded and in M range. That said, spinning tires is a common occurrence when I'm in the right range for the task ... and on level ground.

btw, you guys who squabble a bit here, ... have at it. I like you both and don't think you'll change that no matter what you say or don't say to each other. t o g

 

[atsah]

If I'm reading these numbers right, ~25% grade, ~38% grade.

MY barely 3k lb 35 hp HST would struggle with these unloaded and in M range. That said, spinning tires is a common occurrence when I'm in the right range for the task ... and on level ground.

btw, you guys who squabble a bit here, ... have at it. I like you both and don't think you'll change that no matter what you say or don't say to each other. t o g

My TC45DA's would struggle badly climbing hills, it was like the pump was just plain weak.. And they could have very well been weak, I found them to be weak lifting with the loader as well.

This is my fourth hydro tractor and I have noticed a difference in each one of them. NH, JD and Massey.

When you compare two tractors, one with less engine HP than the other and the tractor with the least amount has more PTO HP, that tells me the hydro system in the lower engine HP tractor has a better system and It's been proven to me.

I just did a comparison of my 22.5 engine HP 18.9PTO Massey compared to X name brand 24.5 engine HP 16.2PTO HP, I drove the X name brand with nothing but a loader attached around there large lot with a couple of small hills and noticed immediately the tractor was weaker than what I'm use to with my lower engine HP tractor, the loader specs were more evidence of a weaker hydro system.

Are all hydrostatic tractors similar, YES, are they all the same NO, and that is why some people either like their hydro tractor or they don't..

 

[the old grind]

.. I just did a comparison of my 22.5 engine HP 18.9PTO Massey compared to X name brand 24.5 engine HP 16.2PTO HP, I drove the X name brand with nothing but a loader attached around there large lot with a couple of small hills and noticed immediately the tractor was weaker than what I'm use to with my lower engine HP tractor, the loader specs were more evidence of a weaker hydro system.

Are all hydrostatic tractors similar, YES, are they all the same NO, and that is why some people either like their hydro tractor or they don't..

My smallest tractor (1.1L, 26 hp) has but two ranges, and like many I wish it had a Medium as often as L seems too slow and H too weak. What might make hp and pulling/climbing power seem oddly disproportionate between makes/models is the probability that o'all gearing (torque motor to final drive) is likely quite different and thus why we're seeing such noticeable disparity.

My thanks to the mods for helping our guy with a title revision. I dearly love my Mechron 2200 and wish Kioti's tractors had color options as well.

 

[atsah]

My smallest tractor (1.1L, 26 hp) has but two ranges, and like many I wish it had a Medium as often as L seems too slow and H too weak. What might make hp and pulling/climbing power seem oddly disproportionate between makes/models is the probability that o'all gearing (torque motor to final drive) is likely quite different and thus why we're seeing such noticeable disparity.

My thanks to the mods for helping our guy with a title revision. I dearly love my Mechron 2200 and wish Kioti's tractors had color options as well.

I saw a used DX33 while I was there, three range and adjustable draft arms, something you don't see anymore in a 33hp tractor, it was well worth what they were asking for it..

 

[DK35vince]

My smallest tractor (1.1L, 26 hp) has but two ranges, and like many I wish it had a Medium as often as L seems too slow and H too weak. What might make hp and pulling/climbing power seem oddly disproportionate between makes/models is the probability that o'all gearing (torque motor to final drive) is likely quite different and thus why we're seeing such noticeable disparity.

Exactly.
Weight and gearing may have a good bit to do with these differences in high range.

 

[MossRoad]

Thread pruned. No notices sent. Please continue the original discussion....

 

[MossRoad]

I will give you an idea of how high the hills are. One hill is 1 mile long and I am going from flat ground to 1300 feet to the top. 2nd hill is 1/4 of a mile going from flat to about 500 feet and there are a few not so high in between. Now if you can find a hill around your area that is close to the same height and distance then you tell me how your machine performs as I am curious.

1300 feet up in 1 mile is a 4:1 incline. For every 4' forward you are going 1' up.

A 1:1 slope is 45 degrees, and 100% grade.
A 2:1 slope is 22.5 degrees, and a 50% grade.
A 4:1 slope is 11.25 degrees, and a 25% grade.

That is a very steep angle and grade to try to go up in high range and hold speed.

One thing I didn't see you write was what you are doing with the throttle. Several people asked if you have it at full throttle or not, but I did not see the answer.

 

[MossRoad]

Thread pruned again...

 

[Citydude]

Thread pruned again...

Thank you.

 

[MossRoad]

The premise of your statement is correct, however, to avoid confusion on another topic, I would like to point out that "variable displacement " pumps are only used on closed center hydraulic systems.

Most tractors under 50 hp use open center systems with a constant displacement pump.

Again, just to avoid confusion on a topic that come up frequently.

To reinforce what you said.....

More hydro pedal equals more speed less torque
Less hydro pedal equals less speed more torque.

Here's a video of the insides of a Kubota BX series transmission. It's got a swash plate in it's pump. I'm fairly certain that it is a variable volume pump. I might be incorrect... I thought I was once before, but I was mistaken.....

 

[K man]

1300 feet up in 1 mile is a 4:1 incline. For every 4' forward you are going 1' up.

A 1:1 slope is 45 degrees, and 100% grade.
A 2:1 slope is 22.5 degrees, and a 50% grade.
A 4:1 slope is 11.25 degrees, and a 25% grade.

That is a very steep angle and grade to try to go up in high range and hold speed.

One thing I didn't see you write was what you are doing with the throttle. Several people asked if you have it at full throttle or not, but I did not see the answer.

My throttle is fully open all the time when climbing or bucket work. Also like to mention that the hills that I climb are not straight up from ground level to 1300 ft. There are a couple of flat spots on the hills in between the steep grades which helps the tractor catch up on some speed a little but still takes forever to get to the top.

 

[the old grind]

Referring to my '98 Terramite T5C, its pump is fixed displacement ie: it has no swash plate, and the Cessna 'torquemotor' is variable displacement/volume.

It should seem perfectly logical that, conversely, a variable displacement pump could drive a fixed displacement motor. (good point, Moss. ) I wouldn't be shocked to see both in the same machine.

Once again, we have a reason to expect different performance if machines of similar hp don't use the same system.

btw, Terramite's 'single range' configuration limits ground speed to little more than a walking pace at WOT and 'full pedal' on the HST. Also, its whine can be heard half a block away and sounds like something is terribly wrong. That said, 12 years on mine drives as well as when I bought it.

 

[Fuggley]

I never even try now to travel up hill in H or M with my CK30Hst/backhoe attached.. why bother?... I know it will bog down as let up on the trans pedal anyway. So I just sit back and crawl up hills in low... it’s safer and helps my high blood pressure to enjoy the ride up.

 

[Egon]

that implies the transmission slips. compare that effect to a geared tractor, the transmission don't slip, and just bogs down the engine instead if you're in too high a gear.. automatic transmissions have been designed for decades without slipping but a tiny bit..

Are you familiar with HST??

 

[MossRoad]

Referring to my '98 Terramite T5C, its pump is fixed displacement ie: it has no swash plate, and the Cessna 'torquemotor' is variable displacement/volume.

It should seem perfectly logical that, conversely, a variable displacement pump could drive a fixed displacement motor. (good point, Moss. ) I wouldn't be shocked to see both in the same machine.

Once again, we have a reason to expect different performance if machines of similar hp don't use the same system.

btw, Terramite's 'single range' configuration limits ground speed to little more than a walking pace at WOT and 'full pedal' on the HST. Also, its whine can be heard half a block away and sounds like something is terribly wrong. That said, 12 years on mine drives as well as when I bought it.

My PowerTrac PT425 (25HP gas engine) has a variable volume pump that drives 4 wheel motors of fixed displacement.

My old IH2500b tractor loader (50HP gas engine) had a variable volume pump that drove 1 fixed displacement motor that drove the transmission through a 2 speed range selector.

 

[Tigershark]

I had a CK4010 for over 2 years, I never experienced any issues in High gear, in fact I could mow a field in High gear with my bush hog and didn't have any problems, it had plenty of power, I have plenty of hills on my farm and could get around fairly easily going up them in both H and M, sometimes it would whine a little to start but would pick up speed and do fine in H. Nothing over 20% grade.

 

[MichiganIron]

Sounds too simple to be true...but have you checked to make sure one (or both) of the brake rockers aren't stuck?? Gotta start with the simple stuff...we have seen this happen before and rob the tractor of power. Check the rockers on the rear brake cases and make sure they are both dis-engaged. If stuck, spray penetrating oil where the rocker shaft goes through the brake case, and keep working it until it moves freely. Partially stuck brakes...simple stuff.

The KIOTI HST units are variable displacement pumps / fixed displacement motor units. The Swash Plate varies the displacement of the HST Pump. The pressure relief on the CK30 Hydrostat Unit (NOT the tractor hydraulics) is 4100psi. If the internal HST pressure reaches the relief pressure, you will hear the HST unit squeal...pressure relief opening. So, if you are hearing a squeal when the tractor "bogs", most likely the HST unit, which could be caused by stuck brakes or too high of a range selected. If the motor "bogs", probably start looking more towards Engine/Fuel issues.

The CK Tractors are pretty heavy machines. They did not climb well, especially in high gear.

Hope this helps

 

[JimR]

I had to laugh while reading some of these posts. Here is what my Ford 8N would do going up my 24% grade hill. I had to use 1st gear to climb it. My 1997 Cub Cadet 7275 27HP tractor could only climb this hill in low gear, it was hydrostatic. My NX4510 HST will only climb this hill in low gear at WOT and that is a 45HP machine. I can baby it up that hill in M range if I really wanted to by babying the foot peddle. I see no reason to load up the machine that much to make it work hard to do what it can do much easier in a lower gear. You own a tractor, it is not a race car.