Steel prices - Yikes!

/ Steel prices - Yikes! #41  
I find it odd that end users are not questing the huge overnight price hikes. If my business has a raw material that went in price 50-70% overnight, you could bet we would be sitting with the managers of that supplier asking a lot of questions. The pressure for them to explain their increase would be intense. If that means finding a new supplier that does not predatory price, so be it.

There is a shortage of steel, since the US just does not have the capacity to supply all of our own needs at this point. When there is not enough steel to meet the demand, the price gets bid up. When the price goes down, and that supplier gets caught with a bunch of expensive inventory, do you think their customers stick with them while they work through the inventory, even though other suppliers who do not have much inventory are selling at lower prices because the are buying the new cheaper steel? Having been in the steel industry for over 30 years, I can tell you such an occurrence is exceedingly rare. The customers leave for the cheaper supplier. They have to, because if they don't, their competitors will, and then undersell them.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #42  
I'm in cottage country that is gradually converting to retirement homes.
Whenever a cottage sells out goes all the beds.

I presently have a nice supply of steel angle stock as I always keep the necessary tools with me.
I must have collected a dozen of bed springs (like 24 6 ft lengths of angle).

All my power tool live on nice sturdy steel bases.
Those bed spring lengths also make a great substitute for fence T bars once sharpened for easy pounding in.

A buddy makes trailers with discarded heating oil tanks. He cuts with his angle grinder and flattens the sheets by driving over with his Kubota.
Last summer he sold 20 trailers.
One 250 gal tank makes a nice 50" X 9 ft bed and bed and bed angle stock frames up his sides.
LOL, he buys 5" grinder blades by the gross.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #43  
Got to tell you that I’m no fan of trump but I’m still neutral on these steel prices. Yes, the prices are way up in the short term but let’s give them time to balance out. As more domestic steel production goes online I see it evening out.

Let’s not forget that our industry is competing against countries that don’t have near the environmental and other regulations that we have.

Give it a year before we see where were really at.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #44  
Our politicians need to go back to the basic economic policies established by President Hamilton. His policies brought a almost failed system back to a robust roaring economy. A publication "The National Interest" just had a very enlightening article called "America's Banker". Real food for thought. Send me a PM and I will provide a link to the current issue. Read it and you will probably subscribe like I did. $35/yr for 6 issues.

No, I am not a shill for the publisher.

Ron
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #45  
New thought on this thread. In this area the construction equipment operators are striking for a significant pay raise. Add that to prices on construction related metals; just imaging how the price of construction will zoom if they win and other unions get on the band wagon. Unfortunately for us consumers; our income increases lag considerable behind the inflation of commodity prices. Especially us on pensions and worse if not indexed to inflation. Eventually with cheaper $ it levels out. Remember Germany prior to WWII. I think I need to buy a bigger wheel borrow.

Ron
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #46  
If we want to continue to be the leaders of the free world, we have to get our financial trade house in order. It would have been death by a million pricks.

The people screaming the most are only looking through the short term view prizm. Trade is a long term and should be viewed as such...

I have to agree. The medicine may need to be strong to reverse the effects of ignoring this problem for many decades.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #47  
Yet scrap prices are at historic lows...I don't understand.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #48  
I copied this off Boatnerd.com this morning. This is about more than just steel, but you get the point.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. ports, including some in Wisconsin, feeling effects of Trump tariffs

9/5 - The Associated Press is reporting that retaliatory tariffs from China and other countries will affect $27 billion in United States exports, but while some Wisconsin ports are seeing the impacts of tariffs, others aren't.

President Donald Trump announced tariffs of up to 25 percent on steel and aluminum in March. Those tariffs went into full effect in June. The European Union responded with its own 25 percent tariffs on U.S. products like corn.

Adam Schlicht, Port of Milwaukee director, said now they're seeing more corn storage.

"We're already seeing the Canadian corn market respond to the need in Western Europe because under the current tariff regime, customers including some that work at Port Milwaukee, just aren't exporting corn right now," said Schlicht.

CHS Inc., which provides grains and energy resources to customers worldwide, expects to see more utilization of their storage capacity to store farmers' crops as a result of tariffs, according to John Griffith, the company's senior vice president of global grain marketing and renewable fuels.

"I think it's safe to assume that more of the storage space at harvest will get filled up with the entire harvest of all crops this year," he said. "CHS's space availability would be included in that statement."

Griffith said the tariffs have changed the flow of grain to international markets.

"The Port of Duluth-Superior could ship soybeans to Europe, for example, this harvest season, which would be a very unusual move," he said. "But that's because the beans aren't flowing ... to China."

China placed a retaliatory tariff of 25 percent on U.S. soybean imports in early July. Around 774,000 tons of grain and byproducts moved through the Twin Ports in 2017, which is down from around 1.1 million tons in 2016.

Jason Serck, Superior port and planning director, said earlier this month that port officials are still gauging the impacts of tariffs.

"Sometimes, it takes a while for these to kind of adjust and we may not see that until next year or the year after because these economic swings just don't happen overnight," said Serck. "Hopefully, these numbers will go up. I think the latest report just came out that we're above last year on some of our exports out of here so that痴 a good thing."

Iron ore exports in the Twin Ports, as of July this year, were up slightly over the same time last year, and domestic shipments were higher as well.

But in Milwaukee, Schlicht said he's worried about steel imports. He said last year was one of the best they've had with around 180,000 metric tons of steel imported.

"My anxiety comes in in 2019," he said. "What will these tariffs and just the proposal of tariffs even if they're not fully enacted mean for existing trade relationships and trade patterns coming into the Great Lakes, including the Port of Milwaukee?"

However, Dean Haen, director of the Port of Green Bay, said they don't generally handle cargo that's currently affected by tariffs. "Current commodities that we're moving in and out through the port are not impacted by any tariffs that are being placed on foreign goods," said Haen.

Haen said they handle mostly coal, cement and limestone.

From the West Coast to the Great Lakes and the Gulf of Mexico, at least 10 percent of imports at many ports could be hit by new tariffs if Trump's proposals take full effect, according to an exclusive analysis of government data by The Associated Press.

Ports and ground terminals in nearly every state handle goods that are now or will likely soon be covered by import tariffs. And port officials fear this could mean a slowdown in shipping that would have ripple effects on truckers and others whose jobs depend on trade.

Since March, the U.S. has applied new tariffs of up to 25 percent on nearly $85 billion worth of steel and aluminum and various Chinese products, mostly goods used in manufacturing.

Wisconsin Public Radio, Associated Press
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #49  
I copied this off Boatnerd.com this morning. This is about more than just steel, but you get the point.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. ports, including some in Wisconsin, feeling effects of Trump tariffs

9/5 - The Associated Press is reporting that retaliatory tariffs from China and other countries will affect $27 billion in United States exports, but while some Wisconsin ports are seeing the impacts of tariffs, others aren't.

President Donald Trump announced tariffs of up to 25 percent on steel and aluminum in March. Those tariffs went into full effect in June. The European Union responded with its own 25 percent tariffs on U.S. products like corn.

Adam Schlicht, Port of Milwaukee director, said now they're seeing more corn storage.

"We're already seeing the Canadian corn market respond to the need in Western Europe because under the current tariff regime, customers including some that work at Port Milwaukee, just aren't exporting corn right now," said Schlicht.

CHS Inc., which provides grains and energy resources to customers worldwide, expects to see more utilization of their storage capacity to store farmers' crops as a result of tariffs, according to John Griffith, the company's senior vice president of global grain marketing and renewable fuels.

"I think it's safe to assume that more of the storage space at harvest will get filled up with the entire harvest of all crops this year," he said. "CHS's space availability would be included in that statement."

Griffith said the tariffs have changed the flow of grain to international markets.

"The Port of Duluth-Superior could ship soybeans to Europe, for example, this harvest season, which would be a very unusual move," he said. "But that's because the beans aren't flowing ... to China."

China placed a retaliatory tariff of 25 percent on U.S. soybean imports in early July. Around 774,000 tons of grain and byproducts moved through the Twin Ports in 2017, which is down from around 1.1 million tons in 2016.

Jason Serck, Superior port and planning director, said earlier this month that port officials are still gauging the impacts of tariffs.

"Sometimes, it takes a while for these to kind of adjust and we may not see that until next year or the year after because these economic swings just don't happen overnight," said Serck. "Hopefully, these numbers will go up. I think the latest report just came out that we're above last year on some of our exports out of here so thatç—´ a good thing."

Iron ore exports in the Twin Ports, as of July this year, were up slightly over the same time last year, and domestic shipments were higher as well.

But in Milwaukee, Schlicht said he's worried about steel imports. He said last year was one of the best they've had with around 180,000 metric tons of steel imported.

"My anxiety comes in in 2019," he said. "What will these tariffs and just the proposal of tariffs even if they're not fully enacted mean for existing trade relationships and trade patterns coming into the Great Lakes, including the Port of Milwaukee?"

However, Dean Haen, director of the Port of Green Bay, said they don't generally handle cargo that's currently affected by tariffs. "Current commodities that we're moving in and out through the port are not impacted by any tariffs that are being placed on foreign goods," said Haen.

Haen said they handle mostly coal, cement and limestone.

From the West Coast to the Great Lakes and the Gulf of Mexico, at least 10 percent of imports at many ports could be hit by new tariffs if Trump's proposals take full effect, according to an exclusive analysis of government data by The Associated Press.

Ports and ground terminals in nearly every state handle goods that are now or will likely soon be covered by import tariffs. And port officials fear this could mean a slowdown in shipping that would have ripple effects on truckers and others whose jobs depend on trade.

Since March, the U.S. has applied new tariffs of up to 25 percent on nearly $85 billion worth of steel and aluminum and various Chinese products, mostly goods used in manufacturing.

Wisconsin Public Radio, Associated Press

Thanks for the reports from the ports. That is more info than rumors.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #50  
Well on the bright side, all the fuel we will save by getting all those giant cargo ships off the seas may help the global fuel supply to last long enough for my grandkids to own a car.

And I wouldn't worry too much about China, I think they should have the technology by now to grow their own soybeans.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes!
  • Thread Starter
#51  
25% tariffs, even if in full effect, should not force a 50% to 70% increase at the end user :confused3:
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #52  
Steel prices jumping 50% or more the day after tariffs go into effect being justified, why didn't SCRAP STEEL prices jump up also?
You KNOW there is going to be a shortage of scrap & what you have on hand is twice as valuable as it was the day before.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #53  
Steel prices jumping 50% or more the day after tariffs go into effect being justified, why didn't SCRAP STEEL prices jump up also?
You KNOW there is going to be a shortage of scrap & what you have on hand is twice as valuable as it was the day before.

All the scrap metal down here ends up down at the port and gets loaded on ships going overseas so I'm assuming that China is not going to be needing as much now. I don't think the US mills will be having much demand for that scrap anytime soon especially with the high cost of new steel to the end user as it is now.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #54  
Guys, scrap iron goes to mini mills and in general, normally becomes other products than structural steel. Mini's make a wide variety of items that can better utilize scrap iron. Whereas the large integrated steel mills use pellets which is made from processed tacnonite ore. This is an over simplification of the industry but the price of rolled structural steel is not as closely tied to the price of scrap, as you might imagine. If we all start use X,Y,C products which are made at mini's, then the price of scrap will go up.
 
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/ Steel prices - Yikes! #55  
I think we should make our own steel, right here, in the U.S.A. why should we let China make all the profit?. we used to make all our steel right here!..
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #56  
Gee guys, we do make our our steel here and so does our good neighbors to the north, in Canada. This past summer, multiple boats passing through the locks at the Sault set record tonnages. That was 73,000+ tons of pellets per load heading south (downbound its called) to the steel mills. Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan - Wikipedia

Our mills have been ramping up production slowing for the past X years since the economy had crashed. Much of what we import is specialty steel and other products, we can't efficiently produce in small volumes.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #57  
Gee guys, we do make our our steel here and so does our good neighbors to the north, in Canada. This past summer, multiple boats passing through the locks at the Sault set record tonnages. That was 73,000+ tons of pellets per load heading south (downbound its called) to the steel mills. Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan - Wikipedia

Our mills have been ramping up production slowing for the past X years since the economy had crashed. Much of what we import is specialty steel and other products, we can't efficiently produce in small volumes.
tell that to Bethlehem Steel.. they were the second largest. it's like the whole town shutdown after they did..
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #58  
Gee guys, we do make our our steel here and so does our good neighbors to the north, in Canada. This past summer, multiple boats passing through the locks at the Sault set record tonnages. That was 73,000+ tons of pellets per load heading south (downbound its called) to the steel mills. Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan - Wikipedia

Our mills have been ramping up production slowing for the past X years since the economy had crashed. Much of what we import is specialty steel and other products, we can't efficiently produce in small volumes.

I haven't seen a peice of steel with made in usa on it in years, plenty of China, Korea, India, Africa, Russia, Mexico, even Poland. Got a pipe fitting recently that had Africa etched on one side and a made in Mexico lable on the other, no doubt it was shipped in through S. America to take advantage of NAFTA.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #59  
11 years ago I was paying $79 per sheet (5' x 10') for 14ga, steel.
This week I paid $109 per sheet.
11 years ago, pound stock was selling for $0.25 per lbs, now it is $0.40 per lbs.
I have raise my prices by over 400% in the last 11 years and the numbers of orders I receive keeps going up.
I keep 20,000 to 30,000 lbs in stock most of the time. And that's not a very big pile of steel.
 
/ Steel prices - Yikes! #60  
Steel prices jumping 50% or more the day after tariffs go into effect being justified, why didn't SCRAP STEEL prices jump up also?
You KNOW there is going to be a shortage of scrap & what you have on hand is twice as valuable as it was the day before.

We make about 4K pounds of aluminum chips and turnings every month. Aluminum is up 80 cents this year a pound for new and we get a whopping 2 cents over what we were being paid last year when it was almost a dollar cheaper. Our scrap buyer said that since china has stopped importation of scrap, we now make more than the foundries can process and it is just piling up looking for a buyer. Starting to feel like five years ago when steel turnings got down to a penny a pound and often we just gave them away to get them out. Nobody wins in a trade war.
 

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