Locate buried electric line?

[buckeyefarmer]

When I use one where it will be exposed to the weather directly, I add a piece of weatherproof sealing tape over the top and side seams between the box and cover. 'In Use' covers are still the weak point though and do not fully prevent moisture such as wind driven rain or snow, dew, frost, etc.

I had read some previous information that GFCIs expire over time and should be replaced the same as smoke detectors and surge suppressors. I've searched since this thread appeared and can't find any definitive statement either way now.

Cant imagine a gfi going bad with time, unless something mechanical gets stuck.

 

[mbohuntr]

They may find electric lines and such BUT I have NEVER seen anyone find a electric line "FAULT " by witching.

I agree with you there..

 

[Diggin It]

OP hasn't given us much to work on as far as I can see. Most light poles aren't very far from a building, usually not over 100' or so. I've never seen a wire take the scenic route between two points unless there are a lot of obstacles. It shouldn't be that difficult to start at one end or the other and work back along the route.

That said, you NEVER make a slice on an AC line underground unprotected. NEVER. If it ever becomes necessary, you use a properly rate box or splice case.

At this point, I'd forget about the old cable and run a new piece of UF.

 

[bcp]

Article here.

Check and Be Sure of GFCI Safety Protection | IAEI Magazine

Bruce

 

[ultrarunner]

Thank you for posting the link...

GFCI are something I deal with all the time... Hospital and Property Management

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Every done electric line work,overhead distribution,transmission,fault locating or underground ? I did for 39 years, and can tell you I NEVER seen any one locate a underground fault using witching sticks.You need the proper fault locating equipment to locate a electric fault.

Nobody has said they could find a fault that way. It works for me; but, the indication is only there is a buried wire not whether energized.

Ron

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Cant imagine a gfi going bad with time, unless something mechanical gets stuck.

They do if installed outside. Changed out few in my life. Moisture corrodes the interiors. Same thing happens to switches and receptacle. Coastal areas are the worst. There is a new one out that is sealed and purported to be impervious to moisture. Haven't seen one yet. The older ones I always tried ti install inside and extend the circuit to the outdoor outlet.

Ron

 

[quicksandfarmer]

First I would check that it is a wire fault and not a fault at the lamp that is causing the GFCI to trip. Disconnect everything at the lamp and reset the GFCI, if it still trips then you have a wire fault.

I'm assuming this is direct burial wire that was done 12 inches deep using the exemption for GFCI protected circuits. It's the cheapest, least reliable method. Accept that you got your money's worth and bury a new wire. Direct burial wire is about 30 cents a foot at Home Depot. Or you could put PVC conduit in the same 12" trench for only a few dollars more and get more life out of it.

If you don't feel like doing that you may be able to cobble together something that kind of works. Your GFCI is tripping because either your line or your neutral conductor is leaking to ground. You can use an ohmmeter with everything disconnected at both ends to see which conductors are leaking. They could be leaking to the ground conductor, or they could be leaking to the actual ground. The best scenario is if one of them is leaking to the ground conductor. In a GFCI circuit the ground is unnecessary. Disconnect the ground conductor at both ends, tape it until it goes into the Romex insulation, and your leak is fixed.

If both are leaking there is no fix without digging up the wire.

If one is leaking to ground-- or the line and neutral are leaking to each other -- you might be able to cobble it. Counting the ground there are three conductors in the cable, and a GFCI circuit only needs two conductors to function properly. If you can identify which one is leaking -- and there is only one leaking -- you could rewire it. Use the non-leaking conductor as the line and the ground as the neutral. The ground needs to be insulated with electrical tape at both ends so it doesn't touch anything. If the white and black are leaking to each other whichever one you don't use needs to be taped off at both ends so it doesn't touch anything.

I would not recommend taking out the GFCI, it's essential protection for a shallow-buried cable.

I wouldn't recommend trying to find the splice and dig it up, by the time you find it you might as well have dug a new trench, and you'll end up with a repair you'll be going back to again in a few years.

 

[coobie]

Nobody has said they could find a fault that way. It works for me; but, the indication is only there is a buried wire not whether energized.

Ron

Why witch the wire if you cannot find the fault what does that accomplish?I think the OP knew where the wire was.He was trying to find a fault in the wire.

 

[Oldoak]

Why witch the wire if you cannot find the fault what does that accomplish?I think the OP knew where the wire was.He was trying to find a fault in the wire.

Because just like any other thread here on TBN, people veer off course from the OP intent.

 

[LouNY]

I have an electric line to a post light that no longer works. There is no power - open circuit. Years ago I cut the wire when I was digging the yard and spliced it using an underground splice kit. My guess is that water got into the splice. The strange thing is that the breaker is holding. It should trip if there was a short. Anyways, I was thinking that I should inspect the splice; but how do I find it? Is there a way to trace these wires?

The OP was trying to find the wires, and find a previous splice

 

[PILOON]

My tractor absolutely needs a block heater to start most times come fall.
It was connected to a GFI circuit for a while but even snow flakes in or around a connection would trip the GFI it was so sensitive.
Needless to say that circuit no longer sports a GFI and I even have a small witness light* wired parallel to the block heater just to be sure I'm connected and heating.

LOL, I used a LED 'night lite' with the sensor taped over for continuous glow.

 

[Cord]

Cant imagine a gfi going bad with time, unless something mechanical gets stuck.

The GFCI was mounted in a exterior enclosed box. My guess is that a little moisture was getting into the box causing the device to fail. That and there was a colony of sugar ants in there as well. I don't know what the conductivity is for a sugar ant, but they can't bode well for the devices longevity. Ultimately, I felt that replacing the device would only result in another failure because the new device refused to hold. They can be a bit too sensitive to false trips.

There are some exceptions where GFCI's are not required because they're not reliable. De-icing cables and sump pumps are two specific examples that come to mind. There may be others as well.

If anybody is curious the "post light" was an over simplification of what I have. I actually have a decorative 20' concrete pole with a street light on top. In place of the HID fixture I have a motion detector controlling a 100w corn bulb.

 

[Diggin It]

If anybody is curious the "post light" was an over simplification of what I have. I actually have a decorative 20' concrete pole with a street light on top. In place of the HID fixture I have a motion detector controlling a 100w corn bulb.

How far from the house and is it a straight shot or does the existing cable go around obstructions?

 

[Cord]

It was built in stages so the line does not take the shortest run. The route looks a little like a Z.

 

[Diggin It]

It was built in stages so the line does not take the shortest run. The route looks a little like a Z.

Again, how far? How many feet?

Also does it go under anything hard, pavement, walkways, landscape bricks or timbers?

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Again, how far? How many feet?

Also does it go under anything hard, pavement, walkways, landscape bricks or timbers?

And what is the existing cable and how deep is it buried? If it's not in conduit and less than 24" it needs that GFCI.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Why witch the wire if you cannot find the fault what does that accomplish?I think the OP knew where the wire was.He was trying to find a fault in the wire.

I went back and read the OP. Reads like he wants to "trace" the wire to find the fault. He probably forgot how he ran the thing originally like I have a habit of doing. However he is getting info that may be of assistance either way. Or, this may be a semantic drill.

Ron

 

[coobie]

I went back and read the OP. Reads like he wants to "trace" the wire to find the fault. He probably forgot how he ran the thing originally like I have a habit of doing. However he is getting info that may be of assistance either way. Or, this may be a semantic drill.

Ron

I think it is a mute point at this stage.Have not seen him post since 8/28.Maybe it"s fixed.

 

[AndyMA]

Dug into this a bit deeper last night and it appears my assumption was wrong. Initially, I tried to reset a GFCI outlet that was before the post light. The GFCI refused to reset. I tried checking for power and it was dead so I assumed the line had a break because the breaker was still on. I pulled the gfci last night and found that it had 120v to it. The device was bad. I had another GFCI on the shelf so I replaced it, but it wouldn't hold. You press the reset and it would immediately trip. There must be a little voltage leak somewhere down stream. I finally just twisted the wires together bypassing the GFCI and light worked. I think I'll just put an outlet in and not bother with the hassle of a GFCI.

I'm thinking about getting one of those wire tracers for some future use. I'm somewhat hesitant because they have such mixed reviews. Sure would love to hear more about peoples experiences with them.

I've had this one since before Greenlee bought it. Works great down to about 8 feet. The plastic case has a loop in in so you can induce a signal in a wire you can't get to, By triangulating you can determine depth. We trace empty plastic conduits/pipes by putting a metal snake in them

Greenlee 51 Tracker II Cable Locator - Pipe Locators - Amazon.com