Buying Advice 40 hp-- which brand?

[Geotech]

Interesting. So basically anywhere in the world including "unknown. They're just like autos. Parts from all over the word, various degrees of assembly in different places and a final assembly point.

 

[jeff9366]

"Allis Chalmers - Founded 1901 - didn't make it."

AC and several other brands declined to license Harry Ferguson's Three Point Hitch patents. The tractor brands that did license the Three Point Hitch from Ferguson, commencing with Ford in 1939, ran off with the tractor and implement business.

Ferguson's patents expired over several years with 1955 often used as simplified patent expiration year. Every new "traditional" tractor today, wherever manufactured, has Ferguson's standardized Three Point Hitch. No one has been able to improve Ferguson's basic design, though it has been enlarged from Category I originally, through Category II, III, IV and V today.



The next big test will be implementing battery power in compact tractors to avoid predictable Tier V emission controls on all tractors, not just those with over 19 kW engine power output.

 

[rngrrymd]

Actually I am not sure where Deere assembles their small tractors. They have yanmar engines, so they are not "made in the US". Not that it bothers me.

Geotech, please refer to post #66 on the following thread. Please note the John Deere Factory Code Guide link at the bottom of the post.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...ons/399556-help-me-buy-compact-tractor-7.html

If you search through tractorhouse.com listings you will notice the John Deere compact 1-4 series all have serial #'s that start with "1LV". All tractors that start with serial #1LV are "assembled" in Augusta, GA. All the John Deere haters on this board like to get all wiffly when that info is presented to them and refuse to acknowledge it. They'll say they don't know where John Deere tractors are built. Many of the components being assembled in Augusta are made overseas. The most obvious non-US component is the Yanmar engines. In that same post #66 I reference a serial sticker that another posted which turns out to be a serial # sticker for a front-end loader. After a little research it became apparent that John Deere has a facility in Mexico that has been making loaders for them for years. Deere can't say the tractors are all made in the USA but they are definitely assembled at the Augusta, GA facility which is a huge facility.

I think Deere makes good tractors. For mowing intensive applications and ease of loader and backhoe removal they have all the competition beat with their ingenuity but if you are looking for raw specs on loader and backhoe capability then they tend to sink down in the pack and other brands rise to the top. hth.

 

[rngrrymd]

Let TractorData.com satisfy your curiosity:

TractorData.com - John Deere tractors sorted by factory

The guy at Tractordata.com needs to update his info. He's behind the times. All "1LV" serial # compacts from Deere are assembled at Augusta, GA.

OMCXT10970 <-- John Deere Factory Code Guide

 

[GFirkus]

Good conversations going on here. The reason I want a ?0 hp is it seemed like some are on the low end of the larger frame size. I don稚 care to get to large as my property is all wooded. Maybe 2000lb is a little over kill for needed loader capacity. I figured that would cover anything I would ever need to lift around the house. Why do some of the 田heaper tractors have quite a bit higher ratings than the 渡ame brand ?

 

[majorwager]

Rngrry.

It is only fair to look at the other posts under the thread you reference. Also one reference source isn't necessarily more credible than another. Tractor Data disputes that deere identifies each model manufacturing plant. In the end, it really doe NOT matter where the tractor is assembled ,because the components are of worldwide production. Girl Who Wants a Tractors has contributed extensive investigative research into this topic and her findings are as valid as others.

I find it rather ludicrous that deere would produce the 3 series w/ an aluminum rear axle and reservoir housing so it will not even support a BH Attachment. And that flaw has no relevance to where the tractor is fitted w/ shoes.

 

[ericm979]

Different companies measure the loader capacity differently. Often it's "at the pins" where the bucket pins on. That's unrealistic for most loads. A bucket of dirt will have it's center of gravity a ways farther out than the pins. A pallet on forks will be even further out. The farther away from the pins the load is, the less weight can be lifted. Some companies publish a capacity measured at some distance out from the pins.

 

[rngrrymd]

Major,

Also one reference source isn't necessarily more credible than another

I know what you're trying to say but that link for the factory codes comes straight from Deere.com website. I think you'd agree with me that you can't get better credibility than that.

I am cooking up some hard info on loader statistics for subcompacts right now that could be interesting once I get all the data together. I obtained info on Deere, Mahindra and New Holland on a little road trip this last weekend. Still have to get Yanmar, Massey, Kubota. Heck, maybe a few weeks from now I'll get info on LS and RK with a trip to SC I'll be making. Yes, I'm bored. And curious.

Woods has been delaying the backhoe because they don't have 24" buckets. Dealer straightened them out on that today so at least they ship the backhoe less bucket and he can have the techs put it together. Heck, I might even get this sucker before Christmas. Have to resort to looking at pics of Screaming400's unit lol.

 

[jeff9366]

1) Maybe 2000lb is a little over kill for needed loader capacity. I figured that would cover anything I would ever need to lift around the house.

2) Why do some of the çheaper tractors have higher FEL lift ratings than the name brand ?

1) If you move logs with pallet forks mounted on the Three Point Hitch, rather than the FEL, you will not need as heavy nor as expensive tractor. Kubota L2501 Three Point Hitch lift capacity 1,918 pounds at lift points, 1,389 pounds 24" behind lift points. (Including weight of pallet forks.) Carrying a ton is much safer with cargo weight on the heavy, non-pivoting rear axle and large rear tires.

2) VIDEO: Let's Talk: How Loader specifications can be manipulated. - YouTube

 

[jeff9366]

The guy at Tractordata.com needs to update his info. He's behind the times. All "1LV" serial # compacts from Deere are assembled at Augusta, GA.

OMCXT10970 <-- John Deere Factory Code Guide

I e-mailed this page to peter@tractordata.com

 

[majorwager]

In post 29, jeffy references a Messick's video. To be fair, this video is also relative to lift capacity.
#16 Lift Capacity, Testing GRANITE GRAPPLE on RK 37 Compact Tractor Part 2 - YouTube

 

[ViperDriver]

Thanks for the mention. In my now vast experience (5.1hours) with the Kioti CK4010 HST (not SE) it's a great size / function sweet spot. And at the pins the lift capacity at the pins is 1835 lbs - close to the 2K requirement.

The loader appears to be well designed, and it certainly was easy to remove - even for the first time, less than 15 minutes.

Operator station also well laid out.

I do feel like my dealer is a major part of the purchase - we're lucky in that we're minutes away from the NA HQ for Kioti, the President lives about 10 minutes from my current house and uses the dealer as a training ground for visiting corporate folks. They used to be a Kubota dealer and have MANY years of experience with different brands. They also helped us pick "the right" options, and uplifts for additional hydraulics, etc.

This going weekend will be using the rotary cutter for the 2 acre field. Expect it to perform flawlessly.

 

[Bigpuddie]

Take a look at the Massey Ferguson 1700 series

 

[GFirkus]

Interesting video on loader ratings. Thanks. I think I need to get out the notepad and start comparing models/brands and work my way down. This may take awhile.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I would look for a Case or Deere (or Cat) construction tractor with backhoe, used, with a few thousand hours on the clock, for about half of the price new. Maybe have a dealer put into shape for you, or buy it from a dealer. Better to be a bit over-powered than under-powered. Should last the rest of your life.

This is what we did but went with a 310B John Deere for $7200. That was about what I was going to pay for an new FEL for the 265 MF. In the 40 HP range we picked up a 3000 and 3600 Ford tractors and just got a 1948 Model B Allis Chalmers with a belly mower but it is only 19 HP.

Best of success. Our tractor needs are low but our retirement needs are great.

 

[rScotty]

This is what we did but went with a 310B John Deere for $7200. That was about what I was going to pay for an new FEL for the 265 MF. In the 40 HP range we picked up a 3000 and 3600 Ford tractors and just got a 1948 Model B Allis Chalmers with a belly mower but it is only 19 HP.

Best of success. Our tractor needs are low but our retirement needs are great.

Yep, I gotta agree. For anyone who wants a backhoe and loader for larger acreage - like GFirkus who started this thread - I'm thinking they should at least think about an older commercial machine like the yellow backhoe loaders you see every day on construction sites. Deere 310s and Case 580s are good ones. Mostly 60 to 80 hp and surprisingly affordable to buy and reasonable to maintain. Up until about 15 years ago many of them were 4 speed stick shift. Lately they are mostly power shift. Expect them to have several thousand hours at least. 5000 hrs is OK; 10K is too many. But it's really all about condition
I just last week saw an nice JD 310 go for $18K with only 2000 hrs. on it. Cab with AC and 4wd too - although with that kind of weight the 2wd models do just fine.

Only drawback is that the construction machines don't have a 3pt. hitch. But for that there are older Ag machines.
There are just as many good deals in that used market too. And at even better prices.

If you don't mind doing your own maintenance, right now is sure a great time to buy used.
rScotty

 

[4570Man]

I got rid of my tractor and got a backhoe. The breakout force on the loader is 8500 pounds and full height lift is 6500 pounds so significantly better than a regular tractor. I don’t know the backhoe specs but it blows a tractor backhoe out of the water.

 

[goeduck]

I got rid of my tractor and got a backhoe. The breakout force on the loader is 8500 pounds and full height lift is 6500 pounds so significantly better than a regular tractor. I don’t know the backhoe specs but it blows a tractor backhoe out of the water. View attachment 567934

You are correct and that is a very nice backhoe. Exceptionally nice.

But I would not want to drive it on my pastures and fields in the off season as I do a tractor. I get enough ruts with a tractor half that weight.

But like I said, you have an exceptionally nice backhoe. Tratordata lists it as 13,880 to 16,220 pounds. That is heavy.

 

[jeff9366]

The guy at Tractordata.com needs to update his info. He's behind the times. All "1LV" serial # compacts from Deere are assembled at Augusta, GA.

Peter Easterlund <peter@tractordata.com>
Aug 21, 2018, 10:39 AM (20 hours ago)

Thank you for the email. Yes, I should update the 1-4 series production data for Deere.

To be honest, it is increasingly difficult to track it, which is why I often ignore it. Deere has switched assembly location in the middle of a production run in the past based on factory loads and economic factors.

Global manufacturing has entirely changed the idea of where a machine is "built". I had a Chinese tractor importer threaten me with a lawsuit because I listed his Foton tractors as coming from China. He was doing final assembly in the USA and demanded to be listed as made in the US.

---
Peter Easterlund
TractorData.com

 

[rScotty]

You are correct and that is a very nice backhoe. Exceptionally nice.

But I would not want to drive it on my pastures and fields in the off season as I do a tractor. I get enough ruts with a tractor half that weight.

But like I said, you have an exceptionally nice backhoe. Tratordata lists it as 13,880 to 16,220 pounds. That is heavy.

I agree those commercial backhoes are heavy - especially the 4wd ones. But that's not the whole story. It depends on how the tire loads the soil. Those big backhoes use a wide industrial R3 tread that really spreads the load out. The load gets spread out even better when the tire tire gets a little worn. I actually prefer to run half worn out tires on my backhoe for that reason. Unlike a tractor, construction machines never use a lugged Ag tire of the R1 type that are designed to cut into the soil for traction.

With the right tires, those industrial R3 tread are pretty easy on the turf even on a big heavy backhoe ---- just as long as it is 2WD.

In 4WD any tire or weight of tractor is going to tear the soil up. On my backhoe, the front wheels leave much larger divots in the soil than the rears. That's why I like to run really smooth wornout tires on the front.
rScotty