choosing between a used with no DPF and newer with DPF

[ishiboo]

There's really no such thing as 0% on a tractor. Ask them for the cash price and you'll see they've just built the cost of financing into the price you're paying. The dealers in all of the brands when I was shopping were about $3k more for the "0%" financing option.

That's not always true. When I bought my Kioti, you are exactly right... you either got the majority of the incentives OR 0% financing. The incentives equaled about a 5-6% loan on the term.

This time around shopping for a sub-compact, both Deere and Kubota's incentives are nearly the same as cash. Deere is $200 higher but the dealer is eating it, Kubota is the same... if they are higher the dealer is eating that too.

With all the incentives, Kioti priced themselves out of a sale. They're $2600 more if you take 0% for 60 on a $20,000 tractor.

 

[grm61]

Hey all,

Still trying to choose a tractor...need something in that 40 to 50hp range with a loader. Doesn't have to be hydrostat but needs 4wd.

I have a 66 gas 4020...would like to sell to get to one tractor....but if keep it, could get by with something in the 25 to 30 hp range. Long story short, I can make anything work and will be happy...I need a loader but ideally, I'd like only 1 tractor that doesn't need worked on just to get started. here are scenarios I'm considering:

scenario 1:
sell my 4020 for about 6.5K. Buy a new MX5800 for right at $30K with 0 financed. This would do all things I need and then some. My concern here is DPF. I typically will only work the tractor a few hours at a time, once or twice per week, with various stints of longer use. My concern is having to maintain and then at sometime replace that dpf for 3k.

Scenario 2:
keep or probably sell my 4020 and buy a used 2010 L4240 for about $18.5K. this L4240 has no DPF, but has weighted tires and about 1100 hours on it. $18.5 is lowest I can get seller. I could probably make this 1 tractor work...might a bit small for my 7ft mower though and require a different mower.

Scenario 3:
Keep my 4020 and buy either a used L32xx Kubota...2014 32 hp with no DPF and low hours...like 50 or less..like new condition. OR buy a new L2501 with no DPF at all. My concern here is if the smaller tractor will do the loader chores I have...which for now the heaviest would be filling in wash outs and creek banks with rip rap.

Would like to hear anyones opinion on these 3 scenarios and what you think. thanks!

WRT scenario 1 , i've priced also the MX4800 and MX5200. I lean toward the 5800 for the power, but also assuming it would run hotter and ultimately be more reliable with with regens...I could be wrong about that (probably am!)

I suppose someone will figure out a delete for home owner tractors, where the computer thinks everything is fine.

I drive truck, (dirt truck) for the last 7 years, current truck 2014 peterbuilt 525 cummins the only thing that goes wrong with it is emmisions related.

I used to be a tire guy on construction equipment for 30 years, mostly rental equipment, so I am familiar with the reliability of the mechanical motors.....fuel filters, oil changes, not much else.

That is why I bought my 2013 dk45SEHSt cab when I did, It has a throttle cable and a muffler, Injection and governor are mechanical....no after treatment, it has some electrical niceties, AC, 4x4 and pto operate via switch, they don't worry me much.

To the OP, I personally think my rig with 350 hours on it is worth at least 10k more than I paid for it.

I Don't need the headaches of a tier 4 final rig for home use, got enough challenges without that.

Good luck

 

[ovrszd]

ME TOO .....NEVER !!!
Yah think .....everyone?
My oldest son is 52, and his brother is 46.
They will inherit my old Fords, so..oo... I doubt that either of them will ever own a DPF tractor either.

Yes, everyone.

 

[backwaterdogs]

found another reasonable deal...19.5k on an L4250 with 700 hours + 1 rear remote. looks very clean.
thats probably the route I'll end going...but is between this tractor + 20k lighter bank account or a brand new mx5800 + potential of dpf problem, but arguably 'free' financing.

I can get that new mx5800 for right at 29k.

probably that l4240 is going to hold it's value better...but i'd plan to keep either one for a very long time.

Without a doubt, if the new mx5800 didn't have the potential for dpf that is route i'd go.

i do see where an outfit in UK has figured out how to delete the DPFs on these things...I suspect is a matter of time before it's common place to do so, but who knows.

and really, who knows how the DPFs will turn out long term??

The one bright side I find with the DPF and esp on hst, is it forces you to run the diesel how it should be run...maybe that ends up being better in the long run anyway..

 

[Turbys_1700]

It will be interesting to see where these emissions cost us owners in the future. I just traded a Tier 4 tractor utilizing a catalytic converter for a Tier 3 unit using an egr valve. Never had any issues with the Workmaster and don't expect any with the t4.75.

I would get the tractor that I wanted and go form there. Change is hard to accept but it is a constant.

 

[Jstpssng]

This type of discussion reminds me of the '70s, when auto manufacturers had to clean up their exhaust so started installing Cats, sensors, and eventually computers. A lot of people said "I'll just keep my old car running." Yet today's vehicles are so much more dependable than they were, and while I don't care for all of the bells and whistles, my back sure appreciates the better suspensions.

 

[ovrszd]

This type of discussion reminds me of the '70s, when auto manufacturers had to clean up their exhaust so started installing Cats, sensors, and eventually computers. A lot of people said "I'll just keep my old car running." Yet today's vehicles are so much more dependable than they were, and while I don't care for all of the bells and whistles, my back sure appreciates the better suspensions.

Yep.....

 

[deserteagle71]

This type of discussion reminds me of the '70s, when auto manufacturers had to clean up their exhaust so started installing Cats, sensors, and eventually computers. A lot of people said "I'll just keep my old car running." Yet today's vehicles are so much more dependable than they were, and while I don't care for all of the bells and whistles, my back sure appreciates the better suspensions.

Exactly! I would never trade my trouble free, maintenance free modern pickup for what I was driving in the mid-70s. Still remember having to do tuneups at least every 20,000 miles. Give the manufacturers a few years and I'm sure the diesels will become just as good...unless the EPA changes the rules again.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I'm kind of wondering what the poorer people will drive as far as vehicles? Historically, they always drove the richer people used cars. But the older cars will be unsustainable for reasons of repair cost.

No doubt vehicles have become more reliable. But when an F150 (I believe) needs a plug and you have to remove the body, that's just wrong.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'm kind of wondering what the poorer people will drive as far as vehicles? Historically, they always drove the richer people used cars. But the older cars will be unsustainable for reasons of repair cost.

No doubt vehicles have become more reliable. But when an F150 (I believe) needs a plug and you have to remove the body, that's just wrong.

I understand what you're saying; yet that plug only will get changed a couple of times in it's 200k mile lifespan. And that's just one of many maintenance items that's been reduced or eliminated.
I get a new company truck every 3 years; by then the old one will have >100k miles on it. About the only maintenance I have done is oil changes, tires, and maybe some front end or brake work as required. The time was that 100K was high mileage; now with average maintenance you can easily attain 200K+.

 

[deserteagle71]

I understand what you're saying; yet that plug only will get changed a couple of times in it's 200k mile lifespan. And that's just one of many maintenance items that's been reduced or eliminated.
I get a new company truck every 3 years; by then the old one will have >100k miles on it. About the only maintenance I have done is oil changes, tires, and maybe some front end or brake work as required. The time was that 100K was high mileage; now with average maintenance you can easily attain 200K+.

Very true. I traded in my S-10 Blazer not long ago that I bought new and put 320,000 trouble-free miles on it. The company I work for has several Superduties with the 5.4 and 6.8 gas engines with around 400,000 miles on them with nothing but tuneups.

As far as plugs on an F150 - very easy to access on my 2016. It's the diesel Superduties that need the cab removed because most of the engine is actually up under the dash!

 

[marchanna]

Personally, i would avoid a tractor with common rail and dpf, but thats just my opinion. I want to be able to work on my tractor and not get hung up on the electronic engine management or plugged dpfs. Any efficiency gains are almost completely cancelled out by the emissions system.

Some people trade in their tractor as soon as the warranty is up and have excellent on-site dealer support, so maybe it makes sense for them.

 

[Teachu2]

I'm kind of wondering what the poorer people will drive as far as vehicles? Historically, they always drove the richer people used cars. But the older cars will be unsustainable for reasons of repair cost.

They won't drive - most people won't. They will trigger an app on their cell phone, a self-driving car will pull up, take them where they want to go (avoiding traffic jams and accidents) and drop them off. No parking, no maintenance, just the cost of the ride - which the taxpayers will subsidize.

 

[ovrszd]

I understand what you're saying; yet that plug only will get changed a couple of times in it's 200k mile lifespan. And that's just one of many maintenance items that's been reduced or eliminated.
I get a new company truck every 3 years; by then the old one will have >100k miles on it. About the only maintenance I have done is oil changes, tires, and maybe some front end or brake work as required. The time was that 100K was high mileage; now with average maintenance you can easily attain 200K+.

I bought my current truck with 100K miles on it. That was 130K miles ago. No maintenance beyond normal wear items. I'll drive it to 300K and then consider a replacement.

 

[Jstpssng]

I bought my current truck with 100K miles on it. That was 130K miles ago. No maintenance beyond normal wear items. I'll drive it to 300K and then consider a replacement.

I'm old enough to remember changing points, plugs, condenser on a regular basis. (10,000 miles?) Then you dig out the timing light to adjust for the new parts. In between you would again need to tweak the timing as the point contacts got worn... starters and alternators were another wear item. Valve seals and guides if your engine went to 70k before it died. Yep, a lot of things have changed. I'll bet that I've been 400,000 miles with my various trucks since I even changed a light bulb. Up here they will rust out long before the running gear gives up.
They sure don't make them like they used to... thank God.

 

[deserteagle71]

They sure don't make them like they used to... thank God.

Amen!

 

[Jstpssng]

They won't drive - most people won't. They will trigger an app on their cell phone, a self-driving car will pull up, take them where they want to go (avoiding traffic jams and accidents) and drop them off. No parking, no maintenance, just the cost of the ride- which the taxpayers will subsidize.

Just like we've done with Chrysler (twice) and GM.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Last week I helped get a MF tractor running. It had caught fire after having the loader welded. I was pleased that I could figure it out, without needing information. A new, tractor, I wouldn't have stood a chance. Maybe, it's the reason manufacturers didn't protest too much about the emissions requirements.

Wouldn't it be nice if consumers could get together? Tell a manufacturer, we are not going to buy your complicated crap, unless you offer software and a USB port where we can do our own diagnostics. Make code, open source.

 

[backwaterdogs]

ok, so FINALLY pulled the trigger on a new tractor. some were interested in my final decision, so thought id explain what i chose in case it helps anyone else.

recall, I owned a 4020 with a 7ft mower and was a very reliable tractor, but no loader, very tall! I was contemplating keeping the 4020 and just getting a small, sub 25 hp tractor OR something in the 40 to 50 range and sell the 4020. but the 4020 was kind of pain to operate where I needed it and really didn't want to own/maintain two tractors. But, wasn't too enthused about anything over 25hp with DPF. I knew I had to spend 20k + and didn't want to drain savings, so wanted to new, with 'free' finance'.

opinions of course were all over the map. some said get an mx5800 or so, some said to keep 4020...some said get a big new & keep 4020....here's what I ended up with and have some questions.

I ended up selling the 4020 with 7ft mower. It was a gas and seems the value of 4020s are not what they were 10 yrs ago. I took 3rd offer that was best, but all offers were w/in 100, so probably got a fair price. and had to let mower go with it. I got 6500 for tractor and mower, nothing like what most had advertised (8 to 10k range), but i got very little interest for the tractor and mower at 7900, dropped to 7300 and got some calls. turned down 6200 & 6400, took 6500. i think i paid 7200 for the same tractor and mower 10 yrs prior... was hoping for more, but had already committed to buying by new kubota...which is...

A new mx5800 with loader, 1 rear remote, wr long 3rd function, r4 tires. Plus they had a used land pride RCR2772 mower 6 ft, very heavy. I paid 31,5xx all in on the tractor loader, valves financed for $530/mo. I paid cash for the mower of 2k. The tractor + loader price was $29,500. That was the best price i could find calling many states/dealers and local dealer matched the price the tractor. the land pride mower looks to be on par with a bush hog bh26 in terms of quality....my mower isn't mint by any means but seems fine. the best price on the bh26 I could find was $3500...but not in orange! that was new price tho.

the dealer had to locate one from another dealer about 150 miles away, but i checked it out before signing and it had .8 hrs, looked clean, so signed the deal
when i checked on tractor at dealership, they had located it and it had .8 hrs. delivered the next day, it had 1.5.....they must have had a **** of a time hooking up the mower and loading to deliver the next day.

But anyway I got and she is friggin beast. neighbors are all jealous and were drooling....so far so great!! Just a question on break-in. the manual doesn't say much. I've added another hour so, varying speed, mowing a little at 540 pto speed.

anything special else to do or just continue the same?

in terms of reasoning ... i went 5800 for a few reasons:
- **** thing is just cool
- decided was better to have too much tractor than not enough
- idk...the extra hp from the turbo and what ever else they have ought make this run a bit hotter and keep dpf cleaner (probably not true, but helped justify the dollars)
- i found a 2.5% 5 yr cd...so instead of paying cash, put money in a 5 yr cd w/ qrtly compound thats at least another 3K in my pocket to finance at 0% and i think i got same / decent deal as a cash customer.
- the 7ft mower would have stuck out a bit and was concerned bout hitting things, so want to go to 6 ft mower
- i really didn't want to maintain two units and thought the mx5800 will do anything and everything I need.

time will tell, but thought my numbers and rationale might help others making same decision...

 

[fried1765]

ok, so FINALLY pulled the trigger on a new tractor. some were interested in my final decision, so thought id explain what i chose in case it helps anyone else.

recall, I owned a 4020 with a 7ft mower and was a very reliable tractor, but no loader, very tall! I was contemplating keeping the 4020 and just getting a small, sub 25 hp tractor OR something in the 40 to 50 range and sell the 4020. but the 4020 was kind of pain to operate where I needed it and really didn't want to own/maintain two tractors. But, wasn't too enthused about anything over 25hp with DPF. I knew I had to spend 20k + and didn't want to drain savings, so wanted to new, with 'free' finance'.

opinions of course were all over the map. some said get an mx5800 or so, some said to keep 4020...some said get a big new & keep 4020....here's what I ended up with and have some questions.

I ended up selling the 4020 with 7ft mower. It was a gas and seems the value of 4020s are not what they were 10 yrs ago. I took 3rd offer that was best, but all offers were w/in 100, so probably got a fair price. and had to let mower go with it. I got 6500 for tractor and mower, nothing like what most had advertised (8 to 10k range), but i got very little interest for the tractor and mower at 7900, dropped to 7300 and got some calls. turned down 6200 & 6400, took 6500. i think i paid 7200 for the same tractor and mower 10 yrs prior... was hoping for more, but had already committed to buying by new kubota...which is...

A new mx5800 with loader, 1 rear remote, wr long 3rd function, r4 tires. Plus they had a used land pride RCR2772 mower 6 ft, very heavy. I paid 31,5xx all in on the tractor loader, valves financed for $530/mo. I paid cash for the mower of 2k. The tractor + loader price was $29,500. That was the best price i could find calling many states/dealers and local dealer matched the price the tractor. the land pride mower looks to be on par with a bush hog bh26 in terms of quality....my mower isn't mint by any means but seems fine. the best price on the bh26 I could find was $3500...but not in orange! that was new price tho.

the dealer had to locate one from another dealer about 150 miles away, but i checked it out before signing and it had .8 hrs, looked clean, so signed the deal
when i checked on tractor at dealership, they had located it and it had .8 hrs. delivered the next day, it had 1.5.....they must have had a **** of a time hooking up the mower and loading to deliver the next day.

But anyway I got and she is friggin beast. neighbors are all jealous and were drooling....so far so great!! Just a question on break-in. the manual doesn't say much. I've added another hour so, varying speed, mowing a little at 540 pto speed.

anything special else to do or just continue the same?

in terms of reasoning ... i went 5800 for a few reasons:
- **** thing is just cool
- decided was better to have too much tractor than not enough
- idk...the extra hp from the turbo and what ever else they have ought make this run a bit hotter and keep dpf cleaner (probably not true, but helped justify the dollars)
- i found a 2.5% 5 yr cd...so instead of paying cash, put money in a 5 yr cd w/ qrtly compound thats at least another 3K in my pocket to finance at 0% and i think i got same / decent deal as a cash customer.
- the 7ft mower would have stuck out a bit and was concerned bout hitting things, so want to go to 6 ft mower
- i really didn't want to maintain two units and thought the mx5800 will do anything and everything I need.

time will tell, but thought my numbers and rationale might help others making same decision...

Nice post!
You obviously did your homework.