Any Pilots On Here??

/ Any Pilots On Here?? #81  
Boy, don't go down the Bonanza path... it doesn't have the most stellar of records as far as deaths per hour of operation. From what I recall, you really need to know your stuff in a Bonanza and its not a forgiving airplane. Look up Dr. Killer Bonanza. Don't want to start anything.... but the last Bonanza I saw was just a couple months ago.... next to the highway, outside of the airport fence, in the grass by the side of the road..... it may be in your future, but learn to fly first. ;)

No "go fast" airplane is "forgiving".

Much of the problem with Bonanza's safety stats, was too many graduated to them, before they were ready. They had the cash to buy them, and didn't feel the need to wait.

I call it the "Thurman Munson effect". 8/2/1979 - Thurman Munson dies in crash - SBNation.com
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #82  
No "go fast" airplane is "forgiving".

Much of the problem with Bonanza's safety stats, was too many graduated to them, before they were ready. They had the cash to buy them, and didn't feel the need to wait.

I call it the "Thurman Munson effect". 8/2/1979 - Thurman Munson dies in crash - SBNation.com


I agree. For the inexperienced, recreational, low-time pilot... its not a good choice.
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #83  
The Skymaster was the answer for a lot of pilots that wanted a little more...
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #84  
Boy, don't go down the Bonanza path... it doesn't have the most stellar of records as far as deaths per hour of operation. From what I recall, you really need to know your stuff in a Bonanza and its not a forgiving airplane. Look up Dr. Killer Bonanza. Don't want to start anything.... but the last Bonanza I saw was just a couple months ago.... next to the highway, outside of the airport fence, in the grass by the side of the road..... it may be in your future, but learn to fly first. ;)

I transitioned from a Cessna 150 to a V tail Bonanza. A Bonanza is by far the nicest flying airplane I've ever flown. If a guy can't fly a Bonanza after a few hours of transition training he probably needs to hang up his spurs!
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #85  
Beechcraft Bonanza is the pinnacle of single piston engine light aircraft, not including V tail versions. Not sure where the anti bonanza thing came from, but you couldn't own a better plane.
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #86  
Beechcraft Bonanza is the pinnacle of single piston engine light aircraft.

I would heartily disagree. My single engine Piper Malibu was pressurized, air conditioned, cruised at 200+ knots, was certified up to 25,000 ft cruise altitude, had an air stair door for access, and carried 140gals of fuel for long range flight. A Bonanza is a very nice machine. But I've never seen one with any of those features, nor all of them combined like in my Malibu. There are probably a few Bonanza's around that have air conditioning, but I've never seen one.
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #87  
Well I owned Cessna 182 c/w long range tanks and flew Mtl (YUL) to Florida more than a few times c/w family.
It is all about planning and watching the weather, fronts etc. (never had IFR ticket).
OK, my schedule was flexible enough to permit variations and adjustments.
LOL, OK we leave at 0:700, get dressed!
Problem was YUL to MIA was 13hrs or so, so pit stops were necessary LOL.
After a while you discovered the ideal stopover site. (Curtesy cars or limo's), heck they'd drive us to a restaurent and ask when we'd like to be picked up!
OK, back then (80's 90's) many FBO's even offered a curtesy car!

Do I miss flying?
You know the answer!

I would guess not much has changed other than inflation (i.e. annuals, gas and investment) but U need to have a healthier income today.
It is all relative. (but lots of enjoyment)
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #88  
Old Red, just take your time before launching into buying a GA airplane. There are lots of "cheap" 2 seater used airplanes out there on the market (there are groups on Facebook and the old standby Barnstormers BARNSTORMERS.COM Find Aircraft & Aircraft Parts - Airplane Sale, Jets, Helicopters, Experimental, Warbirds & Homebuilt

Just remember than many of these are really getting on in age. Many from the 50's and 60's. If you buy a GA airplane and it turns out to need work to pass annual, the FBO usually has you over a barrel. The parts are often very expensive or may need to be hand made (aluminum structural parts) and the labor rate is not your friend either.

Once you pass 2 seaters and looking at 4-6 seaters, everything said above gets kicked up a notch. The engine needs to make a lot more HP to carry all that weight and that puts the price of a new engine north of $25k and rebuilds less of course but still very spendy.

The guy who hired me into my current job was a pilot and at the time owned a Cessna Cardinal (High wing, retract gear, turbocharged) and made regular flights from MI to Florida where his mother and other relatives lived. He ended up crashing the Cardinal due to what was believed to be the rudder freezing up from icing conditions. It happened on landing where the rudder is essential to get the airplane lined up straight with the runway. The plane was insured and he was not badly hurt and fortunately was the only person aboard. He then replaced the Cardinal with a Bonanza, the later model with the conventional tail(about $140k invested). Fast airplane, 170kt cruise was easy (195mph). He could fly from southern MI to Naples FLA in a day easy. He was fit and trim, did a lot of running. Had no known health problems. He was 62. Went for a "routine" flight medical and the FAA doc told him he had a heart problem and he was grounded. He then went to the local cardiologist for a checkup and second opinion and was given a clean bill of health. He then got with the medical team at AOPA and they fought the FAA over the diagnosis. He had to wear a monitor 24/7 for heart rate and blood pressure and it logged all the data and spent a bunch of money on lawyers. They won the case against the FAA after many months and he got his medical reinstated.

A few months later, while driving to church on a Sunday morning, he slumped over the steering wheel of the car at a red light. His wife was sitting in the passenger seat. He never regained consciousness. So sometimes those bad FAA doctors are actually right and the civilian medical establishment just sees you as their meal ticket..... Just thought I would throw that out there since everyone hates on the docs that work for the FAA.

Go ahead and get your PPL. There are very few schools offering the sport pilot training in actual sport pilot airplanes, all of which was supposed to save money (unless you live in FLA in which case you might seriously consider that route). Getting your ticket is just a license to learn. An entry exam which suggests you are not going to kill yourself right away. Then seriously consider getting a newer ultralight (part 103) airplane to stay current in and just have a little fun. You can get something very nice for $12k. They are cheap to own, cheap to fly and free from regulation. You can do all the maintenance yourself unless you dont feel competent to do the work. If you are still liking it after a couple of years, start looking at some of the light sport options for 2 people and investigate flying clubs in your area where you might be able to rent a 4 seat airplane for WAY less money than you ever can with owning.

It is possible to get into a late model LSA for under $80k and possibly for under $50k (composite airframe, less than 15 years old, 80-100hp engine, much less fuel etc). A LSA can likely do 90% of what you want and then you fly the club airplane for the balance of what you need, since you have your PPL. Give it some time before buying, there are an awful lot of airplanes sitting in rented hangers that see very little flight time every year.
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #89  
Well I owned Cessna 182 c/w long range tanks and flew Mtl (YUL) to Florida more than a few times c/w family.
It is all about planning and watching the weather, fronts etc. (never had IFR ticket).
OK, my schedule was flexible enough to permit variations and adjustments.
LOL, OK we leave at 0:700, get dressed!
Problem was YUL to MIA was 13hrs or so, so pit stops were necessary LOL.
After a while you discovered the ideal stopover site. (Curtesy cars or limo's), heck they'd drive us to a restaurent and ask when we'd like to be picked up!
OK, back then (80's 90's) many FBO's even offered a curtesy car!

Do I miss flying?
You know the answer!

I would guess not much has changed other than inflation (i.e. annuals, gas and investment) but U need to have a healthier income today.
It is all relative. (but lots of enjoyment)

When I worked for FBO's, that's what we'd do. Take you down to a local restaurant and give you the number to call when you wanted to be picked up. It didn't matter if you were a corp. jet pilot taking $5000 worth of fuel, or some guy in a puddle jumper spending $50 with us.

That was the best job I ever had, and I'd do it again if it would pay enough. But it typically doesn't pay well at small airports, and I'd never move to a large town, because the laid back atmosphere wouldn't be there.

For that matter, I was offered jobs at an FBO in Denver or Palm Springs, take my choice. However, I wanted to stay in town because I was dating this girl, see.... (I married her :thumbsup:, no regrets). I didn't want to take her away from her family and any future kids, I wanted them to know their grandparents. Worked out well, I must say.... although you'd have to get her opinion from her. :laughing:
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #90  
The Skymaster was the answer for a lot of pilots that wanted a little more...

AHH, the old suck and blow... :laughing:

Neat planes.

82405B29-5F2F-4886-838B-4378CF98BF93.jpeg
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #91  
Boy, don't go down the Bonanza path... it doesn't have the most stellar of records as far as deaths per hour of operation. From what I recall, you really need to know your stuff in a Bonanza and its not a forgiving airplane. Look up Dr. Killer Bonanza. Don't want to start anything.... but the last Bonanza I saw was just a couple months ago.... next to the highway, outside of the airport fence, in the grass by the side of the road..... it may be in your future, but learn to fly first. ;)

Ah yes.... the Bonanza... The infamous..... "swallow tail - single engine - doctor killer"
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #92  
In all fairness... the dr. killer monicker isn't all that fair, in that, dr's, lawyers, business professionals, were the ones most likely able to afford such a plane back then.

On a side note... the day the music died... look it up. ;)
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #93  
From what I recall, you really need to know your stuff in a Bonanza

A pilot focused on safety should "know his stuff" regardless of which airplane they pilot. In my opinion, that is not type-specific.

My Piper Malibu model, at one time, had a number of accidents all in short succession. The FAA issued an emergency directive that they could only be flown in VFR conditions (not instrument conditions) and limiting the peak altitude. After a very long and exhaustive review, it was determined the plane and its design was just fine. The training was insufficient to prepare pilots to use the capabilities of the airplane, and to not overexpect what the plane could do. Apparently too many pilots thought they achieved airline pilot status flying an invincible machine when they stepped up to a Malibu. They were venturing into weather conditions the plane was not capable of handling.

In all my time here, I don't recall ever hearing that you should rule out certain brands or models of tractor because the safety record of that brand or model is lower than the competition. But put two wings on, and many seem to adopt that view. In my opinion, if you start first with a small plane, build some time, then graduate to the next level, you are doing it right if you also receive the training necessary to be familiar with the machine you are operating. All planes have quirks, and if you are trained on how to avoid or deal with those, that promotes safety.

Turning this whole issue around, I came from a flying background to then become a tractor owner. Lots of training before being turned loose with an airplane, virtually zero training when my tractor was delivered and no training at all on attaching and using implements. None. No safety suggestions at all about getting near the spinning PTO. I started a thread here a while ago asking if lack of training was killing tractor operators. I was surprised by the somewhat angry pushback by some that training should not be offered in any fashion under any circumstances. That was quite a surprise since it is so different from my past experience.
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #94  
Here's the most-recent memory of a Bonanza for me.... Sept. 12, 2017. Must have missed his exit... :laughing:

No one was injured. He apparently was landing to the east, landed on the road before the runway, hit a westbound SUV, looped a 180 and went into the ditch on the north side of the road, ended up facing west. News never said why he went down on the road before the airport fence line.


attachment.php


Plane lands in ditch near South Bend Intl. Airport

No injuries in crash of small airplane | Public Safety | southbendtribune.com

This source said there was a loss of engine power...
Incident Beech N35 Bonanza N9368Y, 12 Sep 2017

While all of the local news sources said he was flying from Kansas to Minnesota, and stopping in South Bend for fuel.... why would anyone fly from Kansas to Minnesota by way of Indiana??? I read somewhere he was going to Makinaw, which makes a lot more sense.

Anyhow....

Here's his flight path.

N9368Y ✈ FlightAware
 

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/ Any Pilots On Here?? #95  
A pilot focused on safety should "know his stuff" regardless of which airplane they pilot. In my opinion, that is not type-specific.

My Piper Malibu model, at one time, had a number of accidents all in short succession. The FAA issued an emergency directive that they could only be flown in VFR conditions (not instrument conditions) and limiting the peak altitude. After a very long and exhaustive review, it was determined the plane and its design was just fine. The training was insufficient to prepare pilots to use the capabilities of the airplane, and to not overexpect what the plane could do. Apparently too many pilots thought they achieved airline pilot status flying an invincible machine when they stepped up to a Malibu. They were venturing into weather conditions the plane was not capable of handling.

In all my time here, I don't recall ever hearing that you should rule out certain brands or models of tractor because the safety record of that brand or model is lower than the competition. But put two wings on, and many seem to adopt that view. In my opinion, if you start first with a small plane, build some time, then graduate to the next level, you are doing it right if you also receive the training necessary to be familiar with the machine you are operating. All planes have quirks, and if you are trained on how to avoid or deal with those, that promotes safety.

Turning this whole issue around, I came from a flying background to then become a tractor owner. Lots of training before being turned loose with an airplane, virtually zero training when my tractor was delivered and no training at all on attaching and using implements. None. No safety suggestions at all about getting near the spinning PTO. I started a thread here a while ago asking if lack of training was killing tractor operators. I was surprised by the somewhat angry pushback by some that training should not be offered in any fashion under any circumstances. That was quite a surprise since it is so different from my past experience.

I think its just the perception that if you screw up on a tractor, you can usually just stop and not fall out of the sky. Or glide, if you prefer. :) But if your engine dies, you got one shot.


Here's another link to another story about this particular incident.... they had trouble getting it out of the ditch using "booms and wenches"..... bet that was fun.... ;)

Kathryn's Report: Beech N35 Bonanza, N9368Y, Pinnacle Leasing Inc: Accident occurred September 12, 217 at South Bend International Airport (KSBN), St. Joseph County, Indiana
 
/ Any Pilots On Here?? #96  
Old Red, just so you get a good perspective on what one can do with the LSA category, go to Youtube and type in the search box "Trent Palmer" It is the name of a channel by a guy with the same name. He is flying a Kitfox LSA experimental with a rotax 100hp engine and set up with tundra tires. The cinematography on that channel is quite advanced and the man clearly knows how to fly although in my opinion takes too many risks.

So I have spent this evening reading and soaking up Light Sport Aircraft licensing and planes. No medical....minimum of 20 hours....these aircraft will hold only 2 people. 120 knots at max speed and no flying over 10,000 feet. But some of the planes look really nifty. And they burn 5 gallons of regular old unload gasoline per hour! 22 miles per gallon. Full glass cockpits look neat. I realize that one of my goals of "family travel" will be unmet. But they say if you instruction is certified to teach both you can work towards your PPL while you work on you LSA. If I had the LSA I could gain a lot of hours economically. Trying to read and learn if there is much cross coutry in this type of plane. I like the idea of a $50 dollar cheeseburger to start out with.

Any thoughts or knowledge to share on this? This could get me started...... I hear the LSA hold their value pretty well so if I get in one I can hopefully get my $ back.
 

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