Logging winch- New user with questions!

[hslogger]

My two cents. Cable if you aren't familiar with it can be easily kinked. The kinks mess up you spooling, and an make the hands on operation less than stellar. Cable doesn't like sharp bends. Nylon, hemp, etc. don't much care. If pulling through blocks, Larger sheave blocks are best, otherwise if you risk rat tailing, your cable. Small blocks, small sheaves will work but they will mess up your cable when you put a hard load on.

Cable likes to be lubricated. It is metal.Steel. While you have your cable on the spool, dump some diesel or used motor oil on it. It will lessen friction and make spooling easier. Ideally you want your cable to spool nice and even with neatness. When your loops get crossed up, you can kink your cable.

 

[Spentit]

My advise. Hard hat, safety glasses, gloves and leave the snatch block on the shop floor. Use a peavey to roll logs around stumps. If you can't move the log with a single line pull than cut it shorter because your tractor is probably to small to pull it. The safest place to be when winching is in the operators seat buckled in. Get as close to the log with the tractor as you can. Keep pulls short. Don't pull logs up steep hills. Drop load, freewheel winch drive to top of hill and winch it up the hill. Go on your way. Slow and easy wins the race. Start with small stuff then move your way up to the heavy stuff once you have got some experience. Worked for my daughter. Be safe and enjoy the outdoors.

 

[KubotaGirl001]

Again, I can't thank you all enough for taking the time to share. The detailed explanations are excellent and now I am understanding WHY some things are recommended and some things are not. This is the kind of info the manual does NOT tell you! I wish I could respond to every single poster to thank you for sharing your expertise but that would make for a very long, repetitive thread
I do have help here (my dad and brother have woods experience but not logging winch experience, so I am not doing this alone). Spentit, you mentioned your daughter is involved in working in the woods! That is encouraging I'm getting ready to retire and need a new "job", so this is one of them (One where I can spend time in nature and stay healthy doing it...plus, learning something new is so much fun and fulfilling). And it also doesn't hurt to network with people from all over the world with similar interests Thanks again everyone!!!!

 

[CobyRupert]

The “tractor might get pulled backwards” scenario is usually when the winch’s blade is sitting on something other than ground, like rocks, or a stump, or tree roots, ice, snow, and once my driveway. In these cases, having your tractor in 4wd when winching gives a little more braking, but your winch is big enough to pull your tractor around like nothing if the blade isn’t set, and the load is big/stuck.

 

[John_Mc]

leave the snatch block on the shop floor.

If you are talking about the self releasing snatch block, I strongly disagree with that statement. A self-releasing snatch block is not really for doubling the line, it is for redirecting the pull, so you can pull the log around corners, rather than always having to pull in a straight line. It's a tremendous productivity booster, as well as a tool for minimizing damage to the trees you are leaving behind.

If you are talking about not using a snatch block to double the line pull, then I would agree. As a new user, the 10,500 pull her winch has is plenty. If something is not moving with that pull, she needs to rethink her approach. After she gets a couple of years of experience under her belt, she might consider using a snatch block as a doubler, but even then, if it can;t be moved with the 10,500 line pull she has available, it would be wise to slow down and think about options before jumping right to "pulling harder": more is not always better.

The safest place to be when winching is in the operators seat buckled in.

That really depends on your equipment. Most winches come with enough line that you can activate them from well away from the winch, and off to the side of the line of pull. You can generally position yourself where you can easily see what is happening with the log you are winching. I find that safer than being in the tractor seat, buckled in, and trying to twist around backwards to see what is going on.

Don't pull logs up steep hills. Drop load, freewheel winch drive to top of hill and winch it up the hill. Go on your way.

To be clear, I believe you are referring to don't skid logs up steep hills. (for someone new to this: skidding implies dragging the logs by driving your tractor with the logs attached.) Winching the logs up hills is fine.

Slow and easy wins the race. Start with small stuff then move your way up to the heavy stuff once you have got some experience. Worked for my daughter. Be safe and enjoy the outdoors.

Good advice

 

[52wej]

One more tip for use of the winch. If you should happen to cut a tree and it hangs up in another tree, (I assume all cuts will be true and the tree will fall properly, but just in case), you can wrap the cable around the butt of the cut tree once or twice and the tree will rotate when you pull on it and usually drop right out from where it is hung up. It will throw branches and limbs and maybe leave a snag or two so pause before you go in to check everything. The trick here is to wrap the cable around the cut tree so that it rotates AWAY from the tree it is hung up in.

If you follow all of the other good advice here, your experience with the winch will be very rewarding. You will find the self releasing snatch block to be very useful. You have a very powerful setup so be careful and stay safe. W Jones

 

[Furu]

It should be noted though that that self releasing block would not be suitable for use as a doubling block since the working load limit is well below what the winch would produce in that situation.

Do you know what the ratings are for the self releasing blocks?
I don't but mine are significantly more robust than the doubling block that is rated for 20K. The only ratings I have seen are for the web straps that are attached (Wallenstein)



As to the comment on not needing more than one self releasing block.
On a complex pull I have used up to three.
When pulling through a "busy area" and redirecting the log around stumps etc I have found that multiples have saved many a headaches more than once. It just depends upon the environment that you are working in.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Thank you for the excellent info, Oldpath. I never knew there was such thing as a skidding cone. Definitely going to look into that.

I've seen a shovel used as a "skidding cone". OK, it was me.

 

[KubotaGirl001]

I've seen a shovel used as a "skidding cone". OK, it was me.

Hahahaha!!! Thanks for the laugh! :cool2:

 

[Jstpssng]

Now that you've gotten your tree on the ground and hooked up, let's talk about trail planning. You want them to be as straight as possible; and it's worth it to spend a little extra time to get the stumps low and trim the brush back. (I can and do run my small pickup down my main trails.) As mentioned earlier, you don't want any dead trees that your twitch will catch on.

 

[FarmWrench]

I haven't seen any poor advice.

Spend some time on the internet looking at how to handle wire rope. Kinks ruin wire rope. Know how to inspect your line.

Termination is very important. Don't saddle a dead horse! (Learn what that means!!!! Probably have to look to Canada for cable logging training.)

I don't use a winch. My tractor is almost 10k# and the land is accessible with the addition of another chain. Logs get lifted onto wagon running gear for transport to my sawmill. (Less dirt).


One of the most dangerous things with a winch isn't the winch. It's the lack of chainsaw training and general knowledge in safe felling. Please get a Game of Logging class.

 

[Spentit]

If you are talking about the self releasing snatch block, I strongly disagree with that statement. A self-releasing snatch block is not really for doubling the line, it is for redirecting the pull, so you can pull the log around corners, rather than always having to pull in a straight line. It's a tremendous productivity booster, as well as a tool for minimizing damage to the trees you are leaving behind.

If you are talking about not using a snatch block to double the line pull, then I would agree. As a new user, the 10,500 pull her winch has is plenty. If something is not moving with that pull, she needs to rethink her approach. After she gets a couple of years of experience under her belt, she might consider using a snatch block as a doubler, but even then, if it can;t be moved with the 10,500 line pull she has available, it would be wise to slow down and think about options before jumping right to "pulling harder": more is not always better.



That really depends on your equipment. Most winches come with enough line that you can activate them from well away from the winch, and off to the side of the line of pull. You can generally position yourself where you can easily see what is happening with the log you are winching. I find that safer than being in the tractor seat, buckled in, and trying to twist around backwards to see what is going on.



To be clear, I believe you are referring to don't skid logs up steep hills. (for someone new to this: skidding implies dragging the logs by driving your tractor with the logs attached.) Winching the logs up hills is fine.



Good advice

I accept your critique. I admit to have limited cable "skidding".
I use a JD 648E w/grapple and back over most things in my way clamp on and go. Very few items fail to succumb to its charm.

 

[Spentit]

So KubotaGirl001 how are you making out with that new winch? I trust your slaying those trees. This is a good time of year to log. Frozen ground means less mud, clean logs and no bugs. I love NS. Its where my grandmothers family was from. I visited about ten years ago and tried out the reversing falls. Great ride. Anxious to visit again. Work safe.

 

[KubotaGirl001]

So KubotaGirl001 how are you making out with that new winch? I trust your slaying those trees. This is a good time of year to log. Frozen ground means less mud, clean logs and no bugs. I love NS. Its where my grandmothers family was from. I visited about ten years ago and tried out the reversing falls. Great ride. Anxious to visit again. Work safe.

Hi Spentit! It's just fresh from the manufacturer who is located in Ontario, so we just got it off the truck and now it's sitting in the driveway ready to hook up to the tractor. I have been reading the manual and see I have some greasing to do before I start. I have the pto driveline on the floor in the dining room, studying it for where the grease pojnts are and then where to cut. The manual gives a formula on where to cut the ends of the driveline so that it fits the tractor perfectly. (just throwing that out there as it was a question I had earlier. It's going to be much easier than first suspected). Since being new to tractors and the implements that go along with them I am learning they must be must maintained...lots of greasing to do on a regular basis. Also, I need to oil the winch cable. After that, hopefully it will be ready to set up tomorrow! And you are right, this is a great time to be working with it in the woods. I have learned so much here from everyone and am so grateful.
p.s. My Dad used to work for Weyerhauser all over the U.S. so I have been through your state to visit him when he lived in N.C. N.H. is such a beautiful state with grand forests and big trees. I would imagine logging/forestry is big in your neck of the woods? It seems to me a lot of posters who comment on forestrt/logging here are from the North Eastern states.

 

[Spentit]

Hi Spentit! It's just fresh from the manufacturer who is located in Ontario, so we just got it off the truck and now it's sitting in the driveway ready to hook up to the tractor. I have been reading the manual and see I have some greasing to do before I start. I have the pto driveline on the floor in the dining room, studying it for where the grease pojnts are and then where to cut. The manual gives a formula on where to cut the ends of the driveline so that it fits the tractor perfectly. (just throwing that out there as it was a question I had earlier. It's going to be much easier than first suspected). Since being new to tractors and the implements that go along with them I am learning they must be must maintained...lots of greasing to do on a regular basis. Also, I need to oil the winch cable. After that, hopefully it will be ready to set up tomorrow! And you are right, this is a great time to be working with it in the woods. I have learned so much here from everyone and am so grateful.
p.s. My Dad used to work for Weyerhauser all over the U.S. so I have been through your state to visit him when he lived in N.C. N.H. is such a beautiful state with grand forests and big trees. I would imagine logging/forestry is big in your neck of the woods? It seems to me a lot of posters who comment on forestrt/logging here are from the North Eastern states.

Your correct about that. I live in central NH near Alton Bay. Log and chip trucks go by my house all day long.

 

[Coyote machine]

Check the PTO shaft's cover for openings where you can grease the zerks when the shaft is installed on the tractor/winch.

I suggest shop towels -(paper type) or old towels to handle/mount the PTO (driveshaft) to the tractor.
Have you greased anything prior to now? I ask because it's not as simple as one might think, and a couple of tips would make it way easier. It took me a while to determine what I didn't know, and find solutions to the issues. If you'd like to know what I found, please ask. I don't want to assume any lack of prior knowledge, BUT would be glad to share what works really well...

When you first hook-up your winch, I suggest, once you've cut it to fit properly, grease the shaft with enough grease to make the 2 halves slide easily, but not a lot of excess grease that may just fly off the shaft and make a mess inside the plastic cover tube.

Now, remove the tractor's ignition key and put it in a pocket.

Then, attach the winch end, while aligning the winch shaft splines to the PTO shaft. Add some small amount of grease to the winch's splined shaft to make assembly/disassembly easier too. Now straddle the plastic tube facing the rear of the tractor, and use two gloved hands and pull the ring collar toward the back of the tractor while fitting the shaft splines of the shaft onto the tractor's PTO spline. If the PTO shaft has the mentioned collar ring, it will be spring loaded and somewhat difficult to hold back far enough to get it locked onto the tractor's PTO spline. If you look at the spline, it will have a groove about 1/2 way the length of the spline in from the outer edge, that encompases the shaft. The Pto shaft HAS to lock onto this groove when properly installed to keep the shaft from flying off the tractor spline. You'll know when it's locked in place because you won't be able to pull the PTO shaft off the tractor's PTO spline.
It is possible your tractor PTO and shaft setup is of a different type, but it won't be much different as to locking onto the tractor's PTO shaft/spline.

After you've fit both ends to winch and tractor, also attach the tube's chain to keep it from rotating when the shaft turns. Now start and run the tractor at low rpms, and engage the PTO and verify there are no issues. Use your 3PH to raise the winch off the ground, SLOWLY, while the PTO is engaged, BUT NOT so high that the shaft could bind.
Turn off the engine and verify everything on the 3PH has retaining pins, and is connected at the back of the tractor too.

Now you're ready to go.

 

[KubotaGirl001]

Check the PTO shaft's cover for openings where you can grease the zerks when the shaft is installed on the tractor/winch.

I suggest shop towels -(paper type) or old towels to handle/mount the PTO (driveshaft) to the tractor.
Have you greased anything prior to now? I ask because it's not as simple as one might think, and a couple of tips would make it way easier. It took me a while to determine what I didn't know, and find solutions to the issues. If you'd like to know what I found, please ask. I don't want to assume any lack of prior knowledge, BUT would be glad to share what works really well...

When you first hook-up your winch, I suggest, once you've cut it to fit properly, grease the shaft with enough grease to make the 2 halves slide easily, but not a lot of excess grease that may just fly off the shaft and make a mess inside the plastic cover tube.

Now, remove the tractor's ignition key and put it in a pocket.

Then, attach the winch end, while aligning the winch shaft splines to the PTO shaft. Add some small amount of grease to the winch's splined shaft to make assembly/disassembly easier too. Now straddle the plastic tube facing the rear of the tractor, and use two gloved hands and pull the ring collar toward the back of the tractor while fitting the shaft splines of the shaft onto the tractor's PTO spline. If the PTO shaft has the mentioned collar ring, it will be spring loaded and somewhat difficult to hold back far enough to get it locked onto the tractor's PTO spline. If you look at the spline, it will have a groove about 1/2 way the length of the spline in from the outer edge, that encompases the shaft. The Pto shaft HAS to lock onto this groove when properly installed to keep the shaft from flying off the tractor spline. You'll know when it's locked in place because you won't be able to pull the PTO shaft off the tractor's PTO spline.
It is possible your tractor PTO and shaft setup is of a different type, but it won't be much different as to locking onto the tractor's PTO shaft/spline.

After you've fit both ends to winch and tractor, also attach the tube's chain to keep it from rotating when the shaft turns. Now start and run the tractor at low rpms, and engage the PTO and verify there are no issues. Use your 3PH to raise the winch off the ground, SLOWLY, while the PTO is engaged, BUT NOT so high that the shaft could bind.
Turn off the engine and verify everything on the 3PH has retaining pins, and is connected at the back of the tractor too.

Now you're ready to go.

Hi Coyote Machine, you are correct, I have no prior experience. I'm green as the grass in Kentucky!!! (or is it really blue there?). Nothing on the winch has been greased yet...I was wondering what to use for application, how much to use, etc. Also, any suggestions on what works best on the cable? Please share what your experience is and what works best!!! I am all ears...I mean eyes :confused2:

p.s. I was wondering if that chain on the driveline was of importance... AND I just took a look at the shaft and found those spring-loaded mechanisms you were talking about (one at each end) to lock it in place. I didn't notice this when I was examining it yesterday and it is not mentioned in the manual. You are making life sooo much easier. I appreciate so much the time everyone takes to reply, and with such detail.

 

[John_Mc]

What does the manufacturer say about oiling the cable? If you do oil it, you need to use a bit of care: I've know more than one person who got oil on their clutch or brake drum. A slipping clutch or brake is no fun when winching.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

What does the manufacturer say about oiling the cable? If you do oil it, you need to use a bit of care: I've know more than one person who got oil on their clutch or brake drum. A slipping clutch or brake is no fun when winching.

Not to mention all the dirt that oil will pick up when dragging the wire rope through the dirt...depositing that dirt/mud in the winch!!

I run the wire rope on MY Wallenstein FX90 DRY, and I'm still on my first wire rope, no problem at all!

SR

 

[Agvg]

Have never heard or seen anybody oil a winch wire for a logging winch, what's the point of that?