bad welding rods arggggg.

[muddstopper]

Got started back to my processor build after almost a year and half of surgeries and rehab. I had bought a box of hobart 1/8 7018 several months ago, but hadnot opened the box. Knowing I was going to be doing a lot of welding yesterday, I opened the box and laid them on top of my wood stove the nite before, just to make sure no moisture. I couldnt get those rods to run right at all. Rods would stick, flux would flake off, slag had to be beat off. I adjusted the welder up and down and even tried dc negative. I fought thur it until I had burnt the whole 5lb box. I had a few old rods that had been laying on top of the wood stove since last winter so i grabbed them and finished up. Those rods ran like they should, no sticking, no flux flaking off and you can certainly see the difference in the bead where I ran out with the new rods and started back with the old rods. Well, I had also bought another box of the hobart rods yesterday morning. I have been running those rods today, they seem to be doing better than the other new box of rods I bought months ago. Any ideal what could have been the problem with the first box of rods. Just a bad batch maybe??I will have to buy more new rods before the project is finished, but I think I will go to the welding supply and by what ever they sell, even tho the box I bought yesterday seem to be running ok. I usually dont buy over 5 lbs at a time because I dont use them all and it can be months before I fire up the welder again.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I've had rods that got wet (unbeknownst to me) and were then dried; they never worked right, and sometimes tapping the tip to get a good strike point would flake off the coating. They must have had a rust layer in there. A new box fired right up. One thing that I've found is that damp rods take a couple of days to really dry (unless you bake 'em in the over at 200°F or so, that still takes hours.)

 

[muddstopper]

I kind of figured they had gotten wet sometime. The seal of the box had not been broken and they where stored in a dry area. I usually store y open rods on top of my wood stove, Temps exceed 400 degrees when I have a fire in the stove, which is most of the winter. I have had pretty good luck drying wet rods this way. The rods i had on the stove since last winter welded great. I suspect the unopened box had gotten wet at some point and like you said, must of had rust under the flux. Is what it is, I bought a box of lincoln rods this evening that I will be using tomorrow.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I've had rods that got wet (unbeknownst to me) and were then dried; they never worked right, and sometimes tapping the tip to get a good strike point would flake off the coating. They must have had a rust layer in there. A new box fired right up. One thing that I've found is that damp rods take a couple of days to really dry (unless you bake 'em in the over at 200ｰF or so, that still takes hours.)

I would respectfully tend to disagree with you.
Per Lincoln, 7018 re-dry temp is 650-750 deg F for 1 hour ("...1 hour is satisfactory")
Storage temp is 250-300 deg F.

They note specifically that longer periods at lower temps are not equivalent and not to go over re-dry temps.

The specifics for a non-chemist like myself are that 7018 doesn't get wet like a sponge, the flux bonds with the moisture - that's why it needs such high temps to remove.

Storing and Redrying Electrodes

 

[yomax4]

Got started back to my processor build after almost a year and half of surgeries and rehab. I had bought a box of hobart 1/8 7018 several months ago, but hadnot opened the box. Knowing I was going to be doing a lot of welding yesterday, I opened the box and laid them on top of my wood stove the nite before, just to make sure no moisture. I couldnt get those rods to run right at all. Rods would stick, flux would flake off, slag had to be beat off. I adjusted the welder up and down and even tried dc negative. I fought thur it until I had burnt the whole 5lb box. I had a few old rods that had been laying on top of the wood stove since last winter so i grabbed them and finished up. Those rods ran like they should, no sticking, no flux flaking off and you can certainly see the difference in the bead where I ran out with the new rods and started back with the old rods. Well, I had also bought another box of the hobart rods yesterday morning. I have been running those rods today, they seem to be doing better than the other new box of rods I bought months ago. Any ideal what could have been the problem with the first box of rods. Just a bad batch maybe??I will have to buy more new rods before the project is finished, but I think I will go to the welding supply and by what ever they sell, even tho the box I bought yesterday seem to be running ok. I usually dont buy over 5 lbs at a time because I dont use them all and it can be months before I fire up the welder again.

Like to see the Processor when you get a chance.

 

[dragoneggs]

I would respectfully tend to disagree with you.
Per Lincoln, 7018 re-dry temp is 650-750 deg F for 1 hour ("...1 hour is satisfactory")
Storage temp is 250-300 deg F.

They note specifically that longer periods at lower temps are not equivalent and not to go over re-dry temps.

The specifics for a non-chemist like myself are that 7018 doesn't get wet like a sponge, the flux bonds with the moisture - that's why it needs such high temps to remove.

Storing and Redrying Electrodes

I am wondering if the rods were exposed to moisture for a long period that any amount of drying will never fully recover them if rust gets under the flux? :confused3:

 

[muddstopper]

I am wondering if the rods were exposed to moisture for a long period that any amount of drying will never fully recover them if rust gets under the flux? :confused3:

Wont ever know, I used them all up, nothing left but stubs.:confused3:

 

[muddstopper]

Like to see the Processor when you get a chance.

Not much to show yet. A few picks of the beam I am boxing and the splitter wedge. Its been sitting for a year and a half, waiting for me to get back to it.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I would respectfully tend to disagree with you.
Per Lincoln, 7018 re-dry temp is 650-750 deg F for 1 hour ("...1 hour is satisfactory")
Storage temp is 250-300 deg F.

They note specifically that longer periods at lower temps are not equivalent and not to go over re-dry temps.

The specifics for a non-chemist like myself are that 7018 doesn't get wet like a sponge, the flux bonds with the moisture - that's why it needs such high temps to remove.

Storing and Redrying Electrodes

I didn't have any way to get them that hot (as the "owner" of the oven would have objected.) That's really hot, for a really long time!

 

[muddstopper]

I can load my stove and open up the drafts and get those 750degreeF temps, but I havent needed to, nor would I on purpose. One hour isnt that long. I keep open rods on top of the stove all winter at lower temps. This is the first bunch of rods that didnt respond well to a overnite stove treatment.

 

[muddstopper]

Now I am just embarassing myself. I was at Lowes and they had a bunch of lincoln 7018 1/8 being discontinued. They have pretty much got rid of all their welding supplies. Well the price was right, so I picked up a box. Today, I ran out of the hobart rods and was eager to try the lincoln rods so open up the box and fired up the welder. right off, I new something was wrong. Rod burning awfully hot, but I didnt like but about 18 inches or so to be completely done. burn first rod and didnt like how the puddle was behaving, but slag on top look smooth so I ran another rod, tried changing rod angle, circles, side to side, nothing satisfactory. Thought about adjusting the heat but I had already welded about 50ft at this setting so I grabbbed the last rod and finished the weld. Grabbed the needle scaler and knocked off the slag. Uggggly, wasnt tied good side to side, big sunken spots in the bead. I sat for a while and tried to figure out just what had changed. Took a look at the rods and then I saw it. AC 7018 and I was running DC on the welder. Looks like I will be grinding out a about a foot and half of weld and redoing, after a trip to the welding supply tomorrow. I was always a better grinder than a welder anyways.:shocked:

 

[CADplans]

Lincoln 7018 is far superior to Hobart.
Lincoln, in fact, purchased an entire company to get the flux formulation for the 7018 rod.

I purchased some Hobart 7018, after running the Lincoln,,,
I could not get the rod to run, it would stick, etc,,
I returned the rod to the welding supply store to complain.

The counter guy just commented;
"You must not be a REAL welder,, it takes a real welder to run Hobart!"

He promptly refunded my money, I went to the other welding supply, and purchased Lincoln.

OH, and 7018AC should run perfectly with DC.
The AC version only has a slight addition to the flux to help keep the arc "on",
that has no affect when running DC.

 

[JD955SC]

I had inconsistency issues with Hobart rods from Tractor supply in the black plastic cases. Some would be ok some would run like crap. I found Lincoln to be far better and very consistent, plus lincolns were sealed in plastic wrap if they didn't come in 10 or 50 lb containers.

 

[muddstopper]

Lincoln 7018 is far superior to Hobart.
Lincoln, in fact, purchased an entire company to get the flux formulation for the 7018 rod.

I purchased some Hobart 7018, after running the Lincoln,,,
I could not get the rod to run, it would stick, etc,,
I returned the rod to the welding supply store to complain.

The counter guy just commented;
"You must not be a REAL welder,, it takes a real welder to run Hobart!"

He promptly refunded my money, I went to the other welding supply, and purchased Lincoln.

OH, and 7018AC should run perfectly with DC.
The AC version only has a slight addition to the flux to help keep the arc "on",
that has no affect when running DC.

I must be a real Welder, who would of thought it. LOL. I have ran a lot of hobart rods, mostly because I dont live far from TSC and can pick up a 5lb box on a Sunday if I need them. I have noticed the inconsistency of the rods tho. I think it probably because those little black boxes are just sealed with a little tape and not air tight. No telling how long they have been on the shelf either.

As for the Lincoln 7018AC, I knew they are different than DC rods, but didnt know it was something added to the flux to keep the arc on. I did notice that they struck a arc easy, almost jumping from the rod to the metal. They seemed to run really hot. I could probably make a little amp adjustment and they would run fine on DC. I probably wont use them any more on this project as I am getting to some critical welding and and cant tolerate any bad welding while I learn the AC rods. I might swap the welder over to AC and try a few beads.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

This. Plus they may have been over baked. Unless 7018 comes from a sealed metal can, they are wet from the start.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I always buy 50# of rods at a time minimum in the hermetically sealed metal can. I don't trust the cardboard containers.
Last time I had an opportunity to get some rods at a good deal, I bought 500# and I still have several 50# cans in 3/32 and 1/8" Atom Arc brand.
I have used Atom Arc (preferred brand) and Hobart and Lincoln rods on commercial construction with no problems. It has been almost 3 decades since I used Hobart but we had no problems with them.

Lincoln and Atom Arc are still the preferred brand to use for critical welding on pressure vessels and pipe on construction jobs.