Advice for a TIG beginner?

[California]

I received a TIG welder (160 amps, 130 amps stick) as part of a combo deal. Grizzly brand, now an unsupported orphan. Left unit in this photo. I have since put a plug on it.

I haven't decided whether to set this up to use, or sell it which would more than recover what I paid for both welders. I'm inclined to sell it but I want to play around with it first.

Question: would practicing with this without argon give me any sense of what it would do if I set it up properly? I don't need strong welds, this would just be playing around to get the hang of it. And do I need to get some proper filler rod or would similar size steel rod represent the process well enough.

I can't imagine an application for this here. My welding is mostly repairing farm hand tools and tractor implements, and minor fabrication. None of it has to look pretty. So for now I want to play with this a little before putting it on the shelf, or selling it.

Any advice to this beginner would be appreciated.

 

[Lnk]

Trying to tig without a shield gas will cause you to burn up tungsten. You will receive no benefit from trying it. Either get set up with a bottle and flow meter or don't bother.

Lnk

 

[coherent]

If you will ever have a need to weld aluminum, stainless, thin metal or joining dissimilar types metals you really need a TIG. TIG brazing is also easier than using a O/A torch in my opinion. Rent or buy a tank of argon and just practice running beads on some cleaned scraps. That's really the only way to get proficient. You can use some ER70 Mig wire (twist 2-3 strands or more together) for steel if you don't want to buy tig rod.

 

[CincyFlyer]

TIG (or GTAW) is extremely versatile; the old joke is that you can weld a razor blade to an anvil with TIG (and you actually can.) You can also weld aluminum, and in some cases you can weld [fuse] things together with no filler. For fixing hand tools, it is likely the best method. It's only real disadvantage is that it's not a quick process, but for general repairs you can use the stick, for small or tricky or aluminum items, you can use the TIG.

 

[k0ua]

You will be in for a really big surprise when you strike the arc without argon. I have accidently done that a couple of times and failed to turn on the argon knob. TIG is a wonderful process, actually my favorite process because of the control you have of the heat. If you know how to gas weld, TIG is similar. Not the same but puddle control is similar. I would keep the TIG rig and learn how to use it. You will find many uses for it in repairing household things. I have.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would certainly keep the welder. Stick and TIG along with your MIG machine gives you all the welding versatility one would ever need.
Please note that you cant TIG weld without a shielding gas, normally Argon but you can substitute Helium and weld aluminum with it without a high frequency add on unit. You cant weld aluminum with a TIG using argon shielding without putting on a high frequency unit unless your machine has a build in high frequency control. After reviewing your photo, it looks like you have a pulse control but I am not familiar with that machine to tell if it also is a high frequency pulse. Pulse control usually just raises and lowers the amps in a set time up and down.

 

[California]

Trying to tig without a shield gas will cause you to burn up tungsten.

Lnk

Thanks! I hadn't realized this could be harmful, you helped me avoid damaging my new toy.

Everybody: You are convincing me to go get a bottle and flowmeter, and start from there. This does sound like a useful tool.

 

[California]

You cant weld aluminum with a TIG using argon shielding without putting on a high frequency unit unless your machine has a build in high frequency control.

Here's the manufacturer's product description;
22V Tig Pulse Welder | Grizzly Industrial
It includes:
"Built-in high frequency stabilization for DC TIG starting" and
"Pulse frequency: 0.5-25 Hz". Is that what's needed?

From what I've read online this unit (Grizzly #H8153) lacks an AC mode, which was included on its near-twin H8154, and this limits the ability to weld aluminum. ???

Most of the comments online at the time it came out, 10+ years ago, were in the world of gunsmithing. Perhaps that's where it was advertised.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I would certainly keep the welder. Stick and TIG along with your MIG machine gives you all the welding versatility one would ever need.
Please note that you cant TIG weld without a shielding gas, normally Argon but you can substitute Helium and weld aluminum with it without a high frequency add on unit. You cant weld aluminum with a TIG using argon shielding without putting on a high frequency unit unless your machine has a build in high frequency control. After reviewing your photo, it looks like you have a pulse control but I am not familiar with that machine to tell if it also is a high frequency pulse. Pulse control usually just raises and lowers the amps in a set time up and down.

I've never seen a TIG machine in the last two decades without integrated HF. If it has pulse, it most certainly will have HF. But I will say that this one doesn't appear to have an option for AC TIG! Yeah, that takes aluminum off the table, for sure.

 

[sd455dan]

I've never seen a TIG machine in the last two decades without integrated HF. If it has pulse, it most certainly will have HF. But I will say that this one doesn't appear to have an option for AC TIG! Yeah, that takes aluminum off the table, for sure.

It appears to have HF at least according to this


The high start-up frequency gives you the ability to easily weld thin materials at low amps.

doesn' tseem to have HF high voltage though... looks to be an inverter.

California -get the argon and start with some mild steel scraps, you will see the versatility and how handy tig can be for fine work to. Once you try it you won't want to get rid of that welder.

 

[Shield Arc]

This aluminum weld was made on DC, with 100% helium. With 100% helium, it takes about 1/2 the amps to do the same thing on AC with 100% argon.

 

[LD1]

As shield mentioned, with proper gas, you "can" weld aluminum. Most don't because 1 bottle of 100% argon is easier. I have never used DC on aluminum, because have always had a AC capable machine, so never been curious to buy the gas and try.

For tungsten, I like ceriated tungsten. That way I don't have to keep track when going from aluminum, stainless and steel. One type does all.

For farm type repairs on on that air cooled machine I'd stick with 1/8" tungsten too unless you start welding really thin stuff.

Another thing, I didn't see anywhere on that machine to swap from dcen to dcep (sometimes the machine does it on its own when selecting stick vs Tig mode). So assuming how you hardwire the cables, make sure it's dcen for Tig. And most stick welding is dcep

 

[vidio1]

If you got a great deal on it then get a bottle, watch some of this guy's videos Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info and run with it. All depends on what you might need to weld. If you're on the fence about it but still interested in Tig welding then sell it and get an AC/DC machine. The website I posted has some reviews on affordable Chinese machines.

 

[Fallon]

Jody at Welding Tips & Tricks already linked is a great resource.

Just remember, TIG is a clean process. Your material needs to be spotless for good results. Cleaning off fingerprints with acetone kind of clean. You can do it on not perfectly clean material, but your welds will look like crap & probably be as structurally sound.

A down & dirty tractor/farm repair process it is not.

I'm not great at TIG, but for some reason it's what I learned on & do most. I'm moving over to stick because I'm mostly repairing & fabricobling on tractor imiments & semi-salvaged materially these days. SO much faster to stick than TIG, even if you don't count the cleaning & prep, which often takes more time than the actual welding.

TIG looks so much better & is so much more precise when you do it right though.

 

[CincyFlyer]

As shield mentioned, with proper gas, you "can" weld aluminum. Most don't because 1 bottle of 100% argon is easier. I have never used DC on aluminum, because have always had a AC capable machine, so never been curious to buy the gas and try.

For tungsten, I like ceriated tungsten. That way I don't have to keep track when going from aluminum, stainless and steel. One type does all.

For farm type repairs on on that air cooled machine I'd stick with 1/8" tungsten too unless you start welding really thin stuff.

Another thing, I didn't see anywhere on that machine to swap from dcen to dcep (sometimes the machine does it on its own when selecting stick vs Tig mode). So assuming how you hardwire the cables, make sure it's dcen for Tig. And most stick welding is dcep

Yeah, with the proper gas (helium) and skill, you can weld aluminum with DC (you can even use flux/argon). But by using AC you get a "self-cleaning" of the oxides on the aluminum-you can see it happen-making it much easier for a novice (not that aluminum can't be tricky even with experience; welding high-silicon die castings that have spent their lives in an oil bath is a PITA. Just did one last weekend). I'd say that DC TIG helium welding aluminum just ain't for beginners. But most folks don't have a lot of aluminum work, and don't want two gas bottles, so the DC unit should be fine for most farm usage, especially with the stick option. (I bought a Square Wave about 15 years ago after my two previous machines gave up the ghost; it still works fine, but when it fries, I'll probably go with an imported inverter unit, as I don't use this for work any longer.)

 

[woodlandfarms]

This aluminum weld was made on DC, with 100% helium. With 100% helium, it takes about 1/2 the amps to do the same thing on AC with 100% argon.

Never bought helium for welding, isn't this crazy expensive?

 

[Shield Arc]

Never bought helium for welding, isn't this crazy expensive?

I bought the bottle years ago, I don't remember what I paid for it. With helium being so light, you have to run around 30-cfh.

 

[woodlandfarms]

You end up with a high voice when done?

 

[California]

Ok, I got the Grizzly welder out today and tried a little Stick welding.

First, it has lots of switches but there is no ac/dc switch. The amperage knob is the only control relevant for stick.

From what I'm reading here I would need both the argon bottle for TIG and then a separate helium bottle if I wanted to weld aluminum. And dc-only is not well suited to welding aluminum. And I don't have anything made of aluminum that would ever need welding. So the aluminum option is off the table. TIG - undecided. I'm looking for applications where it would be a superior choice, don't see any here at the moment.

Today's stick welding project: I started with an angle-iron bed frame, cut it down, and welded it to match dimensions of a heavy bin (holds a couple hundred lbs of big lag bolts) that I slide under a workbench. Also drilled out rivets and turned around the bedframe's caster mounts to make this new rolling frame as low as possible. Welding the caster mounts back on in their new position went ok but using 6011 on old painted - and slightly rusty - bed angle iron didn't produce the nice appearance I would show anyone. Grinding the spots clean that were to be welded didn't seem to make any prettier welds so after the first one I just burned through what was there. All four looked identical after this.

3/16 6011 seems to like 60~80 amps on the digital readout. It showed 130, the rated stick maximum, when the electrode stuck. 1/8 6011 needs around 90 amps on the readout and showed 142 amps once when the electrode stuck. Both sizes left rough uneven welds (probably my technique as well as the dirty metal) so I ground the welds and went back over them with 3/16 6013. That looked smoother. I have read somewhere that bedframe iron is some alloy or junk steel that is hard to weld - anybody know if there is any truth to this?

However - I'm not seeing that I have gained anything over the welder I started with, a 230 amp ac stick unit. Wards PowrKraft from the 1960's, same specs as a Tombstone (but a slider lever/core slug for amperage control). I can - have - done rough work like what I did today using that. And now that I replaced my Century 130 (110v mig) with the used HF Mig180 shown in the photo above, I think the big stick welder plus the HF mig might be all the welders I need.

 

[LD1]

You don't need Helium to tig weld, straight Argon is fine for what most people will ever do.

If you would have actually read the thread, you would have realized he has a DC ONLY welder. And lacking an AC option....NO you CANNOT weld aluminum with straight argon:confused2: