Would larger tires help?

[newbury]

<snip>
I never intended to do row cropping when I bought this shiny red tractor. It was happily running my new chipper and even pulled the neighbor's broken disc harrow last year when he
came asking for help. The Massey felt like it was in its element pulling that disc, with a fairly loud diesel bark, well, I was in my element too, open cab, nice day.
Hot dry dusty day, use the cab tractor. But nice day, after a light rain, put the top down...an experience I am glad to pay a little to repeat as often as I can.<snip>

Drew, I'm sure many readers are thinking:

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood,
A beautiful day for a neighbor,
Would you be mine? Could you be mine?

There are several threads on here about filling tires, reads like it's easy to do. Beet juice always sounded like a good filler in the south, but you have to grow and eat a ton of beets

 

[1stDeuce]

There is another factor which significantly affects traction, and may be worth a try, since it is free... Adjust your tire pressure.

Running the tires rock hard will limit their traction in soft surfaces, and cause them to dig more. With the weight you're adding, I really don't think you'll need to load he tires. If you have trouble with traction in the field, try reducing the tire pressure until you can see some deflection in the sidewall when you're pulling.

I have R4 tires on my MF, but the improvement in traction on soft surfaces is quite noticeable when I run lower tire pressure, vs. the the "suggested" pressure in the manual, which basically makes the tires rock hard. Lower pressure allows more lugs to contact the surface, which seems to provide more bite. Same theory as radial tires to some extent, but free...
Good luck!!

 

[daugen]

Harrow delivered this morning and within the hour I was in the dirt.
Traction limited, running in fourth speed low, could not always drop it all the way down.
I have ordered wheel weights for the rear. Wheel weights came in for the front, which were needed, popping wheelies today,
but not right ones.

I looked at the rear tires again. I can't go bigger, there is only one inch of clearance without bending the mud guards.
Time to add weight and try again. But sure had fun today

 

[jeff9366]

RE: Your photo.

The front gangs are the cutting gangs.

The rear gangs are for smoothing the output of the front gangs.

For majority of Disc Harrow tasks most would have rear gangs set two increments less aggressively than the front gangs.

Decreasing gang angles on the rear gangs relative to settings in photo will decrease draft force resisting the tractor about 15% and give you a smoother bed behind the implement.

If you are not cutting ground the way you want, shorten Top Link to shift more implement weight to the cutting gangs.

If you want ground behind implement a little smoother, lengthen top link to shift more implement weight to the rear, smoothing gangs or adjust rear gangs to less aggressive angles, or both.


http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ing-three-point-hitch-mounted.html?highlight=

 

[daugen]

thanks Jeff. This was a point of contention with myself and the salesman, first the unit was not easy to adjust, though no more than most, and second
I asked for the front to be most aggressive and the rear one setting less. Close to what you said. Had five feet of tall grass to cut through.
Normally one would either bush hog or plow. Neither was possible.
The thing was not easy to adjust due to paint (needs to be lubed) and frankly I was in a rush to go out and use it.
I think there are four settings for each set of gangs, maybe three. I'll adjust them properly before I go out again.
This would have been a lot easier with the Kubota frankly. All that shifting at end of many rows. No hydraulic top link for easy adjustment.

I may get a drag harrow to use after this disc. Today was severe duty; I did a part the farmer had already done, somewhat, and it performed beautifully
so I know the grass was causing problems in the other areas.

definitely need weight up front, too many wheelies.

 

[jeff9366]

I may get a drag harrow to use after this disc.

If you experiment with decreasing gang angles both front and rear on second pass you may find bed behind implement is ready for seeding. Gangs are easier to adjust one inch off the ground.

I lube frame with dry was lube from a spray container. Sometimes it helps to break dust/paint friction by encouraging first gang movement with a dead blow or rubber face mallet.

Every piece of ground and soil moisture content provides a unique experience.

 

[daugen]

There is another factor which significantly affects traction, and may be worth a try, since it is free... Adjust your tire pressure.

before I go out again, I'm going to check the air pressure and see if I can lower them. Lot of spinning tells me I need more grip and your idea sounds excellent.
And yes, it costs nothing...:thumbsup:

 

[daugen]

If you experiment with decreasing gang angles both front and rear on second pass you may find bed behind implement is ready for seeding. Gangs are easier to adjust one inch off the ground.

once all this grass is knocked down, my hopes were to put the fronts semi aggressive and the rears flat for smoothing.

 

[Gary Fowler]

If you cant do what you want with water and extra ballast, consider putting on dual rear tires. When you want traction and flotation with a 2 WD tractor, duals are the way to go. You wont need any wider tires either, just add another of the same size. It may cost more than just buying extra rim since you will also have to buy the spacer block to mount it.

I see that you said you couldn't go wider rim so duals would work fine for you if you have deep enough pockets to afford the cost of new tire, new rims and spacer block.

 

[jeff9366]

once all this grass is knocked down, my hopes were to put the fronts semi aggressive and the rears flat for smoothing.

If the rear gangs are adjusted flat, they will just roll over the ground without smoothing, in my experience.
You can try......your conditions are different from mine.

 

[Cataclysm]

How about add a set of duals on the rear and fluid fill all four rears? Lots and lots more traction, you can still use your current tires and if anything changes you can sell the duals and probably get most of your money back.

We ran duals a lot up in Kansas discing. They made a huge difference in what the tractors could pull.

 

[daugen]

If the rear gangs are adjusted flat, they will just roll over the ground without smoothing, in my experience.
You can try......your conditions are different from mine.

No, you simply know what you are talking about and I don't...
Ok....more aggressive in front, say two notches out of three, and less aggressive in rear, say one notch out of three.
But for first pass, trying to cut through the field grass, I thought more aggressive angle would be good, short of stopping the tractor.

the suggestion about duals is a good one. If I were a "real" farmer, I'd consider it. But I'm not, just a retired guy trying to help his neighbor.
Instead of duals I need an M Kubota, not an L...but you run what you brung. I'm going to try lowering the air a little in the rear tires.
They want $750 for just the weight bar on the front and I'm gagging over that. But I can't keep doing wheelies, and losing control at the end of rows requiring backing up instead of making a nice turn. Can't turn when your front wheels are in the air....so I have weight issues front and rear.
Actually the front is more important, and safety related. The rears just mean I have to pick up the disc a little at times.

I started stick welding at age 67 two weeks ago. This week I'm learning to disc again. All good.
I'm ignorant but not stupid; all advice gratefully accepted.

 

[sixdogs]

Tires are matched to the HP of the tractor so I think I would stick with the size you have. Next to that I believe the right radial and some weight would solve any issues and yet stay within the capabilities of the tractor as designed. Bigger tires at resale time are a red flag to most buyers.

In the thread link mentioned, I like the Firestone "All Traction DT" radial because it has a deeper tread, much heavier weight than comperable radials and lots of rubber in the tread center for a tire that is easy over septic systems and blacktop. Plus I have 15 years experience with them on other tractors. You could trade yours in to lessen the blow. Don't buy the wrong radial if you want pulling power.

For weight, I only use cast in the rear and up front. Weights on; weight off (when needed) and no rotten rims. They all rot. Search my threads on this (and weights) for more plus I have posted pictures of rims with fluid that wasn't supposed to rot. Uh-oh.

That's my best answer with what you have. An equal or better choice is to swap up to a FWA tractor in same configuration and swap for radials all around. It's for fun anyway so why hold back? In fact, just buy another tractor and keep the old one. Who cares? We don't spend a lifetime fighting to the top of the food chain to practice self-denial at this point is my thinking and yes, I'm serious.

 

[redman135]

daugen, in post #23 the photo clearly shows your wheels are set to the narrowest track possible. The rims are 2 piece, so remove the tyres and flip the "dish" section so it faces hollow side out. This will give you more clearance between the tyre and mudguards.
Traction wise, what preassure are you running? Too hard and you will skid a lot.
Tip, try using diff lock on the straight runs to minimise skidding.

 

[daugen]

[I]We don't spend a lifetime fighting to the top of the food chain to practice self-denial at this point is my thinking and yes, I'm serious.
thanks.[/I]
I worked hard for forty years and saved for most of that. 30 plus years of IRA contributions. Now at my age without kids and a wife who died a few years ago, I have only my common sense to tell me to stop spending money. With the stock market being so high, I already spent the investment profit on this disc and the Massey itself. A third bigger tractor isn't in the budget. But I sure can dream...and I do look at the local Craigslist for bargains.

I have Goodyear DT185's, with a big blob of rubber in the pattern right in the middle, I'm sure to quiet the tire. I'd say it's about half way to an R1. Which likely makes it much kinder on the lawn.

I was hoping to slip out and get a little more disc'ing done but then saw the rain gauge and no way, 2 inches last night in those storms. Even in sandy soil, I need to let it dry out a little.

Redman, great idea on the rear wheels. My farmer neighbor keeps asking me how many inches between the center of my rear tires, I'm sure related to row width and his cultivators. I have no idea...but obviously can measure, and then there would be an optional wider setting, if I flip the wheels around. Which if I were ever to be getting new tires, I should do then...
Pretty sure if no clearance issues with shed or gates, why not go wider. Just like a Pontiac, Wide Track...
This disc is an 8 footer, plenty wide to cover wider tires. Probably only going to gain three or four inches each side?
BKT radials are 550 apiece, would look at that Firestone too.

I'd like a 6000 pound mfwd with radials, 80hp, 4000# FEL lift. .
Barn kept and low hours.
and as they say in the ads, ice cold a/c
For ten grand :confused3:
And what's on your list for Santa?

 

[sixdogs]

You do have excellent rear tires on the tractor now and if you just left everything as is, what's wrong with that? The task is bigger than the tractor so don't try to do it? I'm OK with that.

 

[daugen]

You do have excellent rear tires on the tractor now and if you just left everything as is, what's wrong with that? The task is bigger than the tractor so don't try to do it? I'm OK with that.

agree with you totally, thanks. I have a purely entry level farm tractor I agree I'm trying to use above its weight class.
And in my sandy soil, I can often get away with that. On a really hot day, I'd be swapping implements and doing this with the Kubota.
Same weight but the 4wd and weight up front offset the R4 tires. Plus the Kubota's tires while shorter are quite a bit wider.

In the Kubota I adjust the a/c vents and fast forward the song on the cd.
On the Massey, I pay attention to the grunt of the engine, whether I'm slowing down at all,
all the kinds of manual operation feedback one needs. The Massey sounds better than the Kubota,
like it's happy in the field and very eager to go. I did not envision doing field work so I installed the horizontal
muffler kit on the Massey. Muffler has a guard and it does fine with these weeds. I check to make sure vegetation isn't getting packed in there, have a little forest fire going on underneath me.

I really can't do much more until I get the front tires back on the ground. Feel like a galloping horse rearing up flailing its front legs...
and then slamming down the clutch after turning the wheel and nothing happening, and before I go into the other farmer's soy beans which aren't far away. Then back up and go around slowly. A lot of shifting for someone with really bad arthritis. The cruise control on the
Kubota for sure has its attractions.

So actually I was looking at the wrong end of the tractor for the highest priority, steering. Then I'll deal with traction, which is easier and cheaper. Filling those tires with something that won't rust my rims seems the first step.

Going to start another thread to see if anyone thinks I can adapt the Massey weights I just bought, which did not fit my existing bar as promised. I have to buy an all new bar for $750. No. Though I can insist the dealer send them back, losing a ton of freight money, I'm wondering if I can adapt something to hold 6 92 pound weights up front. I just learned how to stick weld, well, just barely...and at least this now seems conceivable I could come up with something by making it out of steel. Which I am accumulating a small supply of. Smarter idea is to design it and then take it down to the welding shop downtown. I have to believe they will come up with something for two or three hundred bucks, a huge savings over the oem bar. That will then take care of steering and I can get back to traction.

 

[daugen]

thank you all for the input. Just shows how you have to take care of the basics first. I did that with the Kubota
when I bought it, but getting the Massey second hand not too long ago, I'm still learning what it can do.
The modern day bigger sister of the MF135. A flashy hood on good old Indian iron.

 

[JimRB]

I never saw the answer to the question "What is the tire pressure in both rear tires?" I have seen people put 60 PSI in rear tires when the suggested pressure is often less than 20.

My tractor has steering brakes. Press left brake and tractor turns left. Press right brake and tractor turns right. Of course you have to remove the brake tie strap to get the brakes to work independent. Maybe your tractor has that.

A good welding shop might come up with an idea for the front weights bracket.

 

[daugen]

I never saw the answer to the question "What is the tire pressure in both rear tires?" I have seen people put 60 PSI in rear tires when the suggested pressure is often less than 20.

My tractor has steering brakes. Press left brake and tractor turns left. Press right brake and tractor turns right. Of course you have to remove the brake tie strap to get the brakes to work independent. Maybe your tractor has that.

A good welding shop might come up with an idea for the front weights bracket.

Jim, all good ideas, thank you. For now, I can use the brakes to help. Frankly I had forgotten them. I throttle down at the end of the row.
Lift the rear smoothly until out, and then for a variety of reasons including a head row rut, the front end lifts up. Yes, I can drive it like a bulldozer.
I bet the brakes have hardly ever been used on this, time to rub the glaze off...
I did forget to check the air pressure today, thanks for reminding me. It started to rain and I was off welding a mower deck.