Would larger tires help?

[daugen]

With a new 1100 pound Land Pride DH25 disc harrow on order, coming in this Friday, I'm considering adding a little more tire to my Massey. I did this before with a small CIH Mitsubishi powered tractor and the larger rear tires worked out exceptionally well. I'm retired and just doing this for fun; helping a neighboring older farmer with his fields. Mostly sandy with some clay.
If you look at my tractor in this picture, this is a 50hp 4300 pound tractor that looks like it could use some more tire in the rear. I've ordered 600 pounds of weights for the front,
but those oem rear tires look like they were bought for lower cost versus highest traction. I never drive fast btw.
So...can I go up a size, say wider an inch and higher one inch, I eyeballed the tractor carefully, definitely have enough clearance.

The real question is, what will one inch get me? That's two inches more grip.
I'm sure something but is it worth it on a tractor with less than 200 hours on it? Meaning these tires are like new, but I'm trying to pull
a heavy disc and when I dragged it with this tractor last year granted in muddy condition, I had a heck of time with traction. My Kubota in 4wd just walked away with the disc, but less wet.
But I want to use this Massey to pull the new disc, it's a real "farm" tractor and tough as nails, Indian with a Perkins design engine.
But I think it's traction limited now.

I'm a tire guy, study Tirerack intensely, and have looked at the Michelin and other primo websites. My their tires are expensive...
but I don't need tires for the Autobahn.
I'd like this Massey set up for field work and woods work and the Kubota left for FEL, chipper and other implement uses.
The front triribs on the Massey are great, nice big tires, very comfortable ride on this tractor.

Last time I bought tires I bought BKT for the rears. Massive rugged tread, Indian tires, probably appropriate for this tractor too.
I'm not worried about the rear axle either, it's pretty big, bigger than the Kubota's...

Who has tried going bigger and has it helped? Hints?
Many thanks for all advice.

 

[Ford850]

There have been a couple good threads about radial tires, and the great traction they provide. As long as we're spending your money, I say trade in for radials.

 

[daugen]

thanks, absolutely spend my money, you're paying half right?

the range of costs for these tires runs from about 500 dollars to 1500 apiece for Michelins. Pete's tire barn is helpful, lots of other places.
Euro radial conversion is interesting. If I spend 1200-1300 plus install for new tires, what I don't know is the level of improvement.
If I were going from worn tires, sure.

 

[Ford850]

In case you didn't see it, here's one of the recent threads about radials. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/382937-new-firestone-radials-m7040.html
You might post there asking for feedback too, since Sixdogs has had the new tires for a bit now. Your old tires are like new, so you should be able to recoup some money from those too. But I'll need half of that if I'm helping with the cost of the new tires.

 

[fatjay]

If you increase the rear, you need to do the same for the front, or else your 4wd will bind up. Maybe adding calcium or wheels weights would help more than another inch, as you're really not increasing traction by adding an inch other than the weight of the rubber.

 

[daugen]

If you increase the rear, you need to do the same for the front, or else your 4wd will bind up. Maybe adding calcium or wheels weights would help more than another inch, as you're really not increasing traction by adding an inch other than the weight of the rubber.

2wd tractor but I understand your point about tire loading.
The weight in front is to balance the tractor and maintain steering, not so much adding more weight to a drive axle.

 

[daugen]

In case you didn't see it, here's one of the recent threads about radials. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/382937-new-firestone-radials-m7040.html
You might post there asking for feedback too, since Sixdogs has had the new tires for a bit now. Your old tires are like new, so you should be able to recoup some money from those too. But I'll need half of that if I'm helping with the cost of the new tires.

It's the lower air pressure and construction of the tire sidewall that allows the tire to sit flatter to the ground for a greater footprint. That distributes weight over a bigger surface and puts more horsepower to the ground rather than just slipping away. The deeper lugs really make a difference if you have the HP to make use of them.

that was my understanding, getting a bigger footprint put more horsepower to the ground. The new radials in that thread look just like the BKT ones I previously bought for that smaller tractor and the tread pattern is substantially different than a traditional bar or chevron tread. So I think footprint and tread pattern have something to do with it, but clearly the more weight the merrier over the driven tire. So that's where rear weights might help. Certainly if I went up a size in tire, adding more weight to the rear would be almost required. Otherwise I've just added flotation I believe.

 

[jeff9366]

Are you existing rear tires LIQUID FILLED? Filling is the most cost effective method to increase tire traction.

Are cast iron, bolt-on rear wheel weights available for your tractor? That is the second most cost effective method to increase tire traction. You can sell wheel weights if you decide they are not necessary.

Most of your forward pulling power is provided by the large circumference rear wheels. That is why 2-WD (only) tractors are always rear wheel drive, never front wheel (only) drive.



Some (not I) have cautioned here that filling or weighting FRONT wheels/tires is tough on power steering, tough on 4-WD and tough on front axle if a loader is used.

((Or have you ordered rack weights for the front of the tractor, rather than the wheels?))

 

[daugen]

Are you existing tires LIQUID FILLED? That is the most cost effective method to increase tire traction.

Are cast iron, bolt-on wheel weights available for your tractor? That is the second most cost effective method to increase tire traction. You can sell wheel weights if you decide they are not necessary.

thanks. Good question, no. Am exploring rear wheel weights now. I have both on the Kubota, it was pretty light in the rear, or felt that way.
When I run the Kubota in high gear on the road I seem to get a lot of shimmy, darting around, tire pressure is ok, always wondered if that liquid filler was sloshing around
and creating imbalance. Massey was straight and true and stable as could be on the road.

 

[LouNY]

If your existing tire is a 13.6-28;
a 14.9-28 isn't much upsizing,
a 16.9-28 is a good increase, then there is an 16.9-30 would be a nice increase,
then 18.4-30 which would be a major step up.
My IH 574 was original spec'ed to have a 14.9-28 and she currently rides on 18.4-30's
It has a bit more HP though.

 

[jeff9366]

Good question. No, tires are not filled. Am exploring rear wheel weights now.
When I run the Kubota in high gear on the road I seem to get a lot of shimmy, darting around, tire pressure is ok, always wondered if that liquid filler was sloshing around and creating imbalance. Massey was straight and true and stable as could be on the road.

Filling rear tires 3/4 increases tractor stability. Wheel weights do not.

When tires are spining centrifugal force, in theory, should space liquid evenly around tire. Instability comes as you attempt to slow down, especially if you attempt to turn while slowing down.



"When I run the Kubota in high gear on the road I seem to get a lot of shimmy, darting around."

I speculate your rear tires may be 100% full, rather than 75% full. If tires are 100% full you do not have pneumatic suspension any longer.

R1/ag tires are always a comparatively rough ride relative to R4/industrial tires at speed on hard surface roads.

 

[newbury]

Load your tires with water or the cheapest fluid you can find and try it out. Amazon.com: Milton S-466 Tire Valve Adapter Kit: Automotive

Filling rear tires 3/4 increases tractor stability. Wheel weights do not.

When tires are spining centrifugal force, in theory, should space liquid evenly around tire. Instability comes as you attempt to slow down, especially if you attempt to turn while slowing down.
<snip>

Depends on the speed, I tend to go around most of my travels in 1st gear low, I like seat time and I'm in no hurry. I doubt centrifugal force keeps the fluid spaced evenly. Sort of like putting water in a truck tire and slowly rolling it along, the water just slides down.

 

[daugen]

90 percent of the time I'm running slowly. But I have roadside on the other side of the property and I have to drive around on public roads, so I go in high range, about 1800rpm. Quite the handful to drive with mower on back and FEL on front. I have no idea how much fluid was put in rears of Kubota, done by dealer in PA.

I have 6 92 pound rack weights coming for the Massey that fit my stock front grill guard. About a dollar a pound.
So I've now handled the least important weight issue....btw, twin hydraulic cylinders on front power steering, I don't think more weight is going to bother this tractor up front.

sounds like I need to read some threads on filling rear tires. How to do only 3/4?

 

[oosik]

I definitely agree with those who recommend filled rear tires to increase traction. Bigger tires will increase flotation and to a certain degree traction. Fluid filled rear tires will provide measurable increases in traction. You are not looking for flotation - you want to get maximum pounds to the ground. If you are looking for best bang for your $$ - fluid filled is the way to go.

 

[LD1]

Another vote to fill rears.

But even then....if your kubota "walked away" with a heavy disc....when the conditions were actually proper for discing then I'd have to think that a 4300# 2wd should be able to do the same if you keep it out of the mud. That is assuming the "heavy disc" you pulled last year is similar to the one you have ordered?

Going up in tire size...I dont think is going to make a bit of noticeable difference.

Fill tires, then wheel weights....in that order.

I just added wheel weights to the back of my MX. They were old EnFo weights made for a 5- loop rim. So had to do a little modification. Which was no big deal. And worth the effort for $150 / 600#

 

[daugen]

Well I needed to take this tractor into the local Massey dealer for the first time. I bought it used but it was fully serviced at my local
Kubota dealer. Want to give a little business to MF guys who I may need someday.

BKT Agrimax RT 855 Rear Tractor Tires

BKT Agrimax during plowing - YouTube

this is the tire I'm thinking about. About 600 each incl. shipping. Radial. 20% deeper tread.
And...if these new radials were filled to the proper 75%, that would be the hot ticket.
Funny how BKT is showcasing their tire on a big Massey too.
C'mon Mr. Farmer, put our tires on your small tractor and you'll feel just like us big boys...

I am reminded of why I had the Kubota's tires filled from day one. I'll get the Massey done too.
And before I spend 1300 bucks on new rear tires (which really isn't bad), which otherwise I absolutely do not need,
for sure I'll try filling the oem Goodyears first.

I never intended to do row cropping when I bought this shiny red tractor. It was happily running my new chipper and even pulled the neighbor's broken disc harrow last year when he
came asking for help. The Massey felt like it was in its element pulling that disc, with a fairly loud diesel bark, well, I was in my element too, open cab, nice day.
Hot dry dusty day, use the cab tractor. But nice day, after a light rain, put the top down...an experience I am glad to pay a little to repeat as often as I can.

Have always felt that tires made a huge difference in how a car performed. Wouldn't it be cool if an Ag organization that wasn't taking marketing money from tire makers or wasn't in some way cozy with the tire industry would comparison test Ag tires like they do in Tirerack.com. Just how much better is that $1500 Michelin vs a $500 BKT? Or a $700 Goodyear.
Hard to research quality and performance.

Fill tires. Wheel weights. Then new tires.
that would be sensible.
Like Dirty Harry would ask are you feeling sensible?

Lou, I was thinking of the 14.9 width, 1.3 times two or about 2 1/2 inches more tread, plus better
tread pattern, plus radial grip. Thanks for those sizes. I kept trying to go up in increments but certain sizes apparently
don't exist.

 

[redman135]

Your tractor seems to be the current version of the 135/240 models. These had a tyre option of 24" rims to get extra width of tyre footprint while keeping a similar rolling radius that keeps the gearing the same. Ask the dealer if the option is avalible for your tractor.
As for the "shimmy" ,something is fishy. Have you checked your tyre preassures?(16-20lb operational preassure with the brushhog ).

 

[daugen]

neighbors disk I pulled was a 24-20 missing at least four discs. Jointed in center, mine coming is fixed.
First time I pulled his disc it had just rained and I never buried it or got it stuck but I sure was spinning at times and had to
use diff lock. In Kubota I just got in and drove. Drier ground definitely made big difference.

 

[daugen]

Your tractor seems to be the current version of the 135/240 models. These had a tyre option of 24" rims to get extra width of tyre footprint while keeping a similar rolling radius that keeps the gearing the same. Ask the dealer if the option is avalible for your tractor.
As for the "shimmy" ,something is fishy. Have you checked your tyre preassures?(16-20lb operational preassure with the brushhog ).

thanks. If you look at the picture, you will see the stock rims look like they are wide enough to take more tire also.
every time I get the tractor serviced I ask them to check the air pressure. Now I'll do it myself. This same dealer has a habit of overfilling
when doing oil changes so I guess I should trust nothing. I have bad arthritis and am physically limited in what I can do anymore.

 

[LD1]

Couple thoughts...

Sure those tires probably offer better traction because 20% deeper lugs when new. But what's the game plan? Change them after 30% wear? You aren't always gonna be pull with a 100% tire

As to wider....14.9 is about a 10% increase.

But keep in mind that ground pressure is equally important as contact width. So you loose 10% ground pressure.

Adding weight increases traction because you are increasing ground pressure. The lugs have to be able to penetrate to bite. And if on loose (already plowed or disced ground) the tires have to be able to somewhat firm up the ground under them to bite.

So it's a trace off.