Generator backup power

[fatjay]

As we're a bit off the beaten path, we're always the last people that the plow trucks get out to, and the utility trucks get out to. I lose power 4-6 times a year, and it's getting a bit old. I have a well, and this past saturday I lost it for 12 hours, 8am to 8pm, because a semi clipped a pole. It took them 8 hours to get out and 4 to fix it.

My house has 100a service. Granted, I don't use all of that, but I want a 10k generator, roughly 8k continuous. I'll get an electrician out to install the transfer switch. Problem is my garage is on the opposite side of the house as the electrical box. Don't care want to drag it through the snow to power the house, though, and don't want to run power to the opposite side of the house for that level of cables.

So I was thinking I could build a little house for it on the side of my house with the power, and make it a permenant structure. I could pipe a muffler outside and vent the exhaust, install a remote start, and then just have an access door, and be on the wall I want.

Has anyone done anything like that before?

 

[techman]

I have my genset in my shed, which is about 30' from the house (50' from the point of power entrance) I have remote start, and a manual transfer in the panel box. It is nice. Noise is not too close, and I store 50 gal of fuel there. I will give you my opinion. I had several (always increasingly bigger) generators. They were gas powered, which caused some issues if you don't use them for a while, the gas starts to degrade. After I got my Kubota tractor, I had little use for gas (except week wacker, blower and chainsaw) so keeping good gas was more of an issue. I finally traded up to a diesel powered unit, 7.5 KW with a Deutz aircooled engine. After a few years I upgraded again. I decided to get a Kubota engine powered for some commonality of filters, etc. I got a 10KW. Very nice unit. 1800 rpm and water cooled makes a quieter running setup. This is the one I got: Kubota 9,875 Watt Diesel Generator

I decided against an automatic transfer, since when we are not home I did not want it running if not needed. You can go with one of these: Manual Transfer Switch Kits | Generator Interlock Kit for about 10% of the price for an auto transfer switch.

It is not used often, but when needed I cam run the whole house, 2 fridges, freezer, 2 heat pumps, lights, TV etc. I automatically switch off the electric HW heater when the gen runs, but I have an override switch. On long outages I shut off most big users, turn on the HW heater and charge it up, which will generally last 1 day. Also we do not use the electric stove or dryer, but no big deal. I am very happy with the setup. Diesel can be stored for decades, and on an outage I can start and transfer power from the house. You will pay more for the diesel unit, but it is a great choice.


Paul

 

[TractorGuy]

Mine sits under an open shed behind the house. Diesel is the way to go. If you are handy and don't mind taking some time and taking a chance the military surplus MEP-803A is a good choice. Some of the government auction sites get a little crazy but sometimes you can find a deal on one. I ended up getting mine for under $1200 but I'm right at 2 grand for everything all wired in.

I also installed a breaker interlock made by the same MFG as my panel.

I also used the power out and power back alarms from Reliance Controls.

 

[oosik]

I have a small Honda generator(3000 W) and in 35+ years living out here I've never had to use it during a power outage. The longest outage was 22 hours - which is really nothing. We will get 1-2 outages per year and they will be 1-3 hours in duration. Hardly something worthy of worrying about.

However, I do load the generator on the ATV and go afield with the ability to use power tools. Now this I do all the time.

 

[fatjay]

Sadly the diesel is out of the budget for now. I really wanted one, because I could tie into my oil tank, 350gal of fuel just waiting, I barely use a tank a year since I burn wood to keep oil costs down.

I definitely noticed my gas consumption went down when i got the kubota tractor, I've only used a half a tank all summer for mowing, where I'd use 2 gallons easily a week for the craftsman. I figured if I put stabilizer in the gas it'll last me 6 months, and if I don't have a power outage, I'll just run it for a few hours, probably good for it anyway.

I don't want it to be in the shed, it's about 60' of trenching from the shed to the outside of my box. I was going to build something against the wall to keep it in. My wall is all stucco over cinder block, so I'm pretty sure it'll kill most of the noise. I wanted to pour a concrete pad and put it. That interlock kit would probably suit my needs, but I'm unsure of how to wire it. I've wired breaker boxes before, I'm an electrical engineer, but I'm unclear on this one.

The plug is a NEMA 14-50. Do I put the 2 blacks into the breaker, the white to the negative, and ground to ground, and that's it? Then install the interlock on the panel to make sure some idiot doesn't backfeed from the breaker and kill a pole worker?

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

So I was thinking I could build a little house for it on the side of my house with the power, and make it a permenant structure. I could pipe a muffler outside and vent the exhaust, install a remote start, and then just have an access door, and be on the wall I want.

Has anyone done anything like that before?

Probably tens of thousands of people have done just that, I would guess. I think it's a good idea. Pour a small slab and build a small house.

Make sure you provide some way to get at the generator for maintenance.

 

[fatjay]

Sadly the diesel is out of the budget for now. I really wanted one, because I could tie into my oil tank, 350gal of fuel just waiting, I barely use a tank a year since I burn wood to keep oil costs down.

I definitely noticed my gas consumption went down when i got the kubota tractor, I've only used a half a tank all summer for mowing, where I'd use 2 gallons easily a week for the craftsman. I figured if I put stabilizer in the gas it'll last me 6 months, and if I don't have a power outage, I'll just run it for a few hours, probably good for it anyway.

I don't want it to be in the shed, it's about 60' of trenching from the shed to the outside of my box. I was going to build something against the wall to keep it in. My wall is all stucco over cinder block, so I'm pretty sure it'll kill most of the noise. I wanted to pour a concrete pad and put it. That interlock kit would probably suit my needs, but I'm unsure of how to wire it. I've wired breaker boxes before, I'm an electrical engineer, but I'm unclear on this one.

The plug is a NEMA 14-50. Do I put the 2 blacks into the breaker, the white to the negative, and ground to ground, and that's it? Then install the interlock on the panel to make sure some idiot doesn't backfeed from the breaker and kill a pole worker? Problem is my panel doesn't have the configuration for the interlock. And my box is full. I can double up 4 15's to make 2 spaces for the 50a, then run the blacks to the 50, but I'd have to exercise some common sense to avoid a dangerous situation.

The upper most double is my main.

 

[ericm979]

We were out for a total of two weeks this winter. We have a Honda gas generator in the garage which I wheel over to the door and connect to the house with extension cords (after opening the main breaker so we don't back feed the power lines).

I'd like to install a whole house generator fueled by propane, since we already have a 300 gallon tank. But the way the house and tank is laid out won't work for a generator so I need to get the gas company to move the tank to the other side of the house over by the power pole.

If you don't have a whole house generator you need to figure out how to get power to the circuits or appliances you need, and decide what to power. The fridge and chest freezer can go about 12 hours without power (our outages are in the winter) but we need lights and power to the furnace's fan.

 

[fatjay]

My garage is on the opposite side of my house as the breaker box, and there's no easy way to get wires over there, so the garage is out for me. I don't want to wheel the thing over in 2-3' of snow, so I'll be building a little hut for it. My house is 100a service, so 10k/8k should be plenty to power the whole house.

 

[jeff9366]

Consider a tractor PTO powered electrical generator.

 

[fatjay]

I thought of that, but I don't want my tractor tied up for 10-12 hours at a time. It's also my snowblower, and peak snow time is peak power outage time.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

When the power goes out here, for more than a couple hours, I start up my Honda 2000 to power a couple things, like the sump pump and the fridge...

We are not power hungary people, and I have set my house up to not need a lot of electrical power... BUT, if the power stays off for an "extended" time, like days at a time, I can easily power my whole house with my small diesel tractor and 15kw pto generator... I REALLY like having a diesel gen set over gas or propane too...

I like being able to use the pto gen set AWAY from the house too, like power a welder or ? .

Over the years, I've had several gen sets, but I like the set up I have now, the best!

SR

 

[3Ts]

We were without power for 9 days during a hurricane one year. We are building a house and will have a permanent generator as part of the build. One thing we learned is distances to windows & doors, distances to propane regulators, and for a propane tank the vaporization rate at a given temperature, and an accumulator is needed. We will be putting in a Generac 22KW. We are planning for worst case in the winter which is when we need it the most. Turns out for our case a minimum of 500 gal tank is needed to meet the vaporization rate required, but will only run the generator for a few days (24 hrs/day). We will be burying the tank which will help improve the vaporization rate - we get below freezing temperatures, but the ground does not freeze.

Initially we had a PTO powered generator to run our old house - that didn't work well because it ties up the tractor and the generator was not weather proof so we couldn't run it in the rain which is when we needed it the most. Then we went to a portable generator. That freed up the tractor, but it still was not weather proof and there wasn't a good place to put a shed to put the generator in, and the problems with gasoline. So that leaves us with a permanent mount with either diesel or propane. Generac & Kohler both make propane residental units for a "reasonable" price in propane air cooled, diesel units are a lot more. We can get propane delivered, diesel we can not.

Yes, there are diesel surplus units for not much money, but I did not want to mess with that.

 

[fatjay]

That's one thing that worries me, extended outages. I've lost power for 4-5 days in bad winter storms. Like I said, we're the last to get plowed, if we even get plowed at all. Then we're the last to get utility repair. I have 25 gallons of gasoline on hand in a best case scenario. The generator run time is 12 hours at half load with an 8 gallon tank. So I'll be making fuel runs every 36 hours whether I like it or not.

 

[fatjay]

The plug is a NEMA 14-50. Do I put the 2 blacks into the breaker, the white to the negative, and ground to ground, and that's it? Then install the interlock on the panel to make sure some idiot doesn't backfeed from the breaker and kill a pole worker?

If anyone can clarify this part, that would be very appreciated.

 

[Rara Avis]

Consider a tractor PTO powered electrical generator.

Before you do that...you might want to peruse this...
Tractor-Driven Generators: Producing Quality Power

 

[fatjay]

From what I understand, there's two legs. Each leg in the box gets it's own hot, so they're not joined together. That may require some balancing for the breakers as to not overload one leg.

 

[zzvyb6]

I thought of that, but I don't want my tractor tied up for 10-12 hours at a time. It's also my snowblower, and peak snow time is peak power outage time.

Why do you say that a pto generator "ties up your tractor for hours at a time" ? When your lights go out, do you turn on all your flashlights and let them burn until the batteries go flat ? Do you turn on all your faucets and keep the water running ? Is your car running in the garage right now even though you are not using it ? Sounds like it the way some thinkers go...

 

[techman]

Problem with a PTO generator is in the winter. I have the snowblower on my tractor and need to use the tractor to clear my 1/2 mi driveway. It sometimes takes hours with deep snow. The time and effort to connect, disconnect etc and shutting off the power for potentially hours makes a stand alone genset much nicer.

paul

 

[zzvyb6]

Problem with a PTO generator is in the winter. I have the snowblower on my tractor and need to use the tractor to clear my 1/2 mi driveway. It sometimes takes hours with deep snow. The time and effort to connect, disconnect etc and shutting off the power for potentially hours makes a stand alone genset much nicer.

paul

Now THAT makes perfect, good sense. That is why I bought a gearbox to produce a pto compatible hookup to my F-935 lawnmower. Its 22 hp and has plenty of grunt to handle all of our electric loads. I use a Kill-o-Watt to check frequency.