The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Imaybail · May 25, 2017

Backdragging does work well for smoothing out and it actually makes a pretty good seed bed for broadcasting seed in a old plot if you drag with the tines slightly engaged.

MinnesotaEric · May 25, 2017

IslandTractor said:
Think about the extremely powerful excavators used in construction demolition. You'll never see even a 4 foot wide grapple on them. Most are 3ft wide. Why? Three basic reasons. 1) That's all they need to work efficiently, 2) A wider grapple would be less selective and make picking up specific items like a stump more challenging, and 3) A wider grapple increases risks of tipping over the excavator. #3 is a real concern when you have an excavator with a lift capacity of more than 30,000 lbs and you consider what happens when you apply that lift while the outboard edge of the grapple is unknowingly snagged on an object that won't move. It would get exciting real fast. The power of the excavator would tip the machine over. By using narrow grapples, that won't happen as easily as the load is centered.

CUTs aren't likely to tip over but the sort of twisting forces demonstrated in Eric's photo are not great for the tractor or FEL. Narrow grapples make that type of scenario less likely to occur.

Meh. A wider grapple over the hood of a tractor allows the operator the ability to see what whey are doing at the ends. In the photo above I'm ripping a root ball out of sand. The only reason I would accept a narrower grapple on a tractor is if I was limited by my power to lift. Moreover, a wider grapple allows more lightweight material to be carried, a problem I largely face with endless piles of material to be transported to burn piles.

EverythingAttachments · May 25, 2017

Imaybail said:
Clearing a spot for my camper on my remote property with the EA dual lid Wicked grapple. Not Ted level of abuse, but I was pleased with being able to move the trees in one piece and pile them for burning later.

Welcome to the party :cake:

resent: and thanks for sharing!!
I enjoyed your ENTIRE video. :applause:
OH, and you couldn't hide the smile!!

That there was some nice ripping and gripping, courtesy of these puppies.
Travis

EverythingAttachments · May 25, 2017

EricTheOracle said:
Meh. A wider grapple over the hood of a tractor allows the operator the ability to see what whey are doing at the ends. In the photo above I'm ripping a root ball out of sand. The only reason I would accept a narrower grapple on a tractor is if I was limited by my power to lift. Moreover, a wider grapple allows more lightweight material to be carried, a problem I largely face with endless piles of material to be transported to burn piles.

Awesome video as always, Eric!

Guys, check out this one small, yet HUGE observation I noticed right off....

When he raises/lowers the loader quite swiftly, the whole tractor DOESN'T shake like it has an anchor attached to the front end.
In fact, it really produces no reaction at all, even though he has NOTHING hooked to the 3pt. for ballast besides a quick hitch.
The fast motion video draws more attention and lets us witness it over and over again.

This is an extremely significant point made possible by a simply ideal, properly weighted Wicked Grapple IMO.
Travis

IslandTractor · May 25, 2017

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Piston said:
He's not doing it with an excavator, he's doing it with a tractor...

Again, a more fair comparison would be with a skidsteer. Excavators have nothing in common with a tractor, I do understand what point your trying to make, it's just a poor example.

I understand we are not talking about excavators. We are talking tractors with FELs and how to use them in demo. The reason I discussed the excavator was two fold. One to show the disadvantage of a wide grapple and secondly to show that a narrow grapple is all you need. There are parallels that are useful to consider. If a professional demo company primarily uses 3-4ft grapples on machines that can lift 30,000lbs, that should tell you something. They could easily run a ten foot grapple if they wanted but they don't. Why you might ask? Most likely for both safety and efficiency. Think about it.

As far as tractors are concerned there seems to be a lack of appreciation that the tractor FEL is a lifting device and not the best choice generally for demo work or bulldozing. Recall that we had tractors for about a hundred years before someone thought of putting a loader on them. Tractors are pulling devices primarily. Loaders are engineering after thoughts and are clearly designed simply for lifting. Long skinny loader arms are not for pushing or ramming. Do so at your own risk. Skidsteers are purpose built around the loader and have evolved as construction tools so have very different strengths and weaknesses compared to CUTs. They are much more powerful generally and arguably designed for the abuse meted out at construction sites. Their loaders are considerably stronger than what we have on our CUTs and the loader arms are not as long. They also tip over regularly.

Do excavators have anything in common with CUT FELs by design? Not much other than a very long loader arm and the fact that they are primarily used for lifting not ramming. But in this instance, demolition, they are in fact used similarly to how a CUT with FEL would be used. Not bulldozing but pushing weak spots on a building to make it collapse and then move the debris into piles or to lift into a dump truck/trash container. A 4 or 5 foot grapple would be more than adequate for such a task. If you were going to do that daily then a CUT is the wrong tool but for occasional demo work a CUT is fine. Been there done that. A four foot grapple works fine. If you are doing it every day, you don't need a CUT you need an excavator.

Bigfish50 · May 25, 2017

Hey Travis,

Nice videos posted by both Imaybail and Eric so thanks guys for rubbing it in.. LOL Just thought I'd follow up to see if you had a better wag on when my 54" single lid wicked grapple might get put on a truck headed west? Cheers!

IslandTractor · May 25, 2017

EricTheOracle said:
Meh. A wider grapple over the hood of a tractor allows the operator the ability to see what whey are doing at the ends. In the photo above I'm ripping a root ball out of sand. The only reason I would accept a narrower grapple on a tractor is if I was limited by my power to lift. Moreover, a wider grapple allows more lightweight material to be carried, a problem I largely face with endless piles of material to be transported to burn piles.

You and I have the same loader. I have a 48" grapple and can see very well where the edges of the grapple are. Directly in front of the SSQA plate and unobscured by the FEL arms. The grapple is easily seen in front of the tractor, I don't need to look around any obstacles or lean out. In fact, the edges of my grapple are directly in front of my eyes and directly in front of the FEL arm. I can see the edge from inside the FEL arms, I don't need to lean over to see outside. A six foot grapple will have the edge a foot outboard and obscured often by the FEL arm. Do the geometry and tell me who can see the tips of the outboard grapple tine more easily.

Wider grapple really doesn't add much to the capacity for brush. Look at the photos below of brush and trees in a puny 48" grapple. I can get in more brush and trees into a 48" with 42" jaw opening than someone with a wider grapple but only 37" jaw. Brush is sticky. It's all about how big your bite is not how wide. (And, notice that one of those photos is a puny little CK20 with the same grapple).

EverythingAttachments · May 25, 2017

Bigfish50 said:
Hey Travis,

Nice videos posted by both Imaybail and Eric so thanks guys for rubbing it in.. LOL Just thought I'd follow up to see if you had a better wag on when my 54" single lid wicked grapple might get put on a truck headed west? Cheers!

Our 5 week "guesstimate" from when the order was placed is the best honest answer I've been able to come up with. A few have shipped faster and some have even went over a bit.
Fingers crossed for a couple more weeks!!
Travis

IslandTractor · May 25, 2017

EverythingAttachments said:
Our 5 week "guesstimate" from when the order was placed is the best honest answer I've been able to come up with. A few have shipped faster and some have even went over a bit.
Fingers crossed for a couple more weeks!!
Travis

Of course if Travis wasn't fooling around with his beautiful pickup truck on weekends he could lend a hand in the shop and get you the order faster! Now THAT would be customer service.

EverythingAttachments · May 25, 2017

IslandTractor said:
Of course if Travis wasn't fooling around with his beautiful pickup truck on weekends he could lend a hand in the shop and get you the order faster! Now THAT would be customer service.

More like fooling with my beautiful lawn(I give much credit to the EA Alternating Depth Aerator)! The truck has been a little neglected as of late!
Travis

Bigfish50 · May 25, 2017

Travis Rocks. Gorgeous truck an all :thumbsup: Thanks for the update Travis.

EverythingAttachments · May 25, 2017

Bigfish50 said:
Travis Rocks. Gorgeous truck an all :thumbsup: Thanks for the update Travis.

Anytime, man! FWIW, our larger manufacturing facility is currently being worked on.

Ted says, after moving over there, that our manufacturing should quickly be able to produce more than I(we) can sell.

I told him "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!" :laughing:
Travis

Piston · May 26, 2017

IslandTractor said:
I understand we are not talking about excavators. We are talking tractors with FELs and how to use them in demo. The reason I discussed the excavator was two fold. One to show the disadvantage of a wide grapple and secondly to show that a narrow grapple is all you need. There are parallels that are useful to consider. If a professional demo company primarily uses 3-4ft grapples on machines that can lift 30,000lbs, that should tell you something. They could easily run a ten foot grapple if they wanted but they don't. Why you might ask? Most likely for both safety and efficiency. Think about it.

As far as tractors are concerned there seems to be a lack of appreciation that the tractor FEL is a lifting device and not the best choice generally for demo work or bulldozing. Recall that we had tractors for about a hundred years before someone thought of putting a loader on them. Tractors are pulling devices primarily. Loaders are engineering after thoughts and are clearly designed simply for lifting. Long skinny loader arms are not for pushing or ramming. Do so at your own risk. Skidsteers are purpose built around the loader and have evolved as construction tools so have very different strengths and weaknesses compared to CUTs. They are much more powerful generally and arguably designed for the abuse meted out at construction sites. Their loaders are considerably stronger than what we have on our CUTs and the loader arms are not as long. They also tip over regularly.

Do excavators have anything in common with CUT FELs by design? Not much other than a very long loader arm and the fact that they are primarily used for lifting not ramming. But in this instance, demolition, they are in fact used similarly to how a CUT with FEL would be used. Not bulldozing but pushing weak spots on a building to make it collapse and then move the debris into piles or to lift into a dump truck/trash container. A 4 or 5 foot grapple would be more than adequate for such a task. If you were going to do that daily then a CUT is the wrong tool but for occasional demo work a CUT is fine. Been there done that. A four foot grapple works fine. If you are doing it every day, you don't need a CUT you need an excavator.

TLDR....but, I'm sure you made some excellent points like you always do :laughing:
BTW, nice pics you posted :thumbsup: looks like you mostly use your grapple for brush and not real heavy materials? More often than not I'm using mine for pretty heavy stuff, but inevitably large logs come with a LOT of brush!

EverythingAttachments said:
More like fooling with my beautiful lawn(I give much credit to the EA Alternating Depth Aerator)! The truck has been a little neglected as of late!
Travis

View attachment 510561

Good lord Travis! If I could get my lawn to look half as nice as that I'd be happy! I just finished a couple jobs stumpgrinding and power raking some customers yards for a new lawn installation. I always tell them right off the bat that I am NOT a professional lawn guy and My services stop after the power raking. If I could give them a lawn like that I'd make a lot more money :laughing:
Nice job :thumbsup:

IslandTractor · May 26, 2017

Piston said:
TLDR....but, I'm sure you made some excellent points like you always do :laughing:
BTW, nice pics you posted :thumbsup: looks like you mostly use your grapple for brush and not real heavy materials? More often than not I'm using mine for pretty heavy stuff, but inevitably large logs come with a LOT of brush!

Wouldn't want to disappoint you. I had posted brush because Eric had referred to brush as I recall in arguing for a wider grapple. But, you want big things, so, here are some slightly bigger things I lift with my puny little light duty $500 grapple.

TLDR....I guess you're trying to keep up with POTUS.

Xfaxman · May 26, 2017

I use my 44" wide (smaller than IslandTractor's grapple), for long heavy stuff:

For reference, the V417 is 6' wide.

MinnesotaEric · May 26, 2017

IslandTractor said:
Wouldn't want to disappoint you. I had posted brush because Eric had referred to brush as I recall in arguing for a wider grapple. But, you want big things, so, here are some slightly bigger things I lift with my puny little light duty $500 grapple.

TLDR....I guess you're trying to keep up with POTUS.

It is more than that: I literally cannot see the center of my grapple and so a wider grapple gives me visibility.

A skid steer, track steer tele handler, or wheel loader the operator can see the center of the grapple when it is on the ground, but i cannot. I can only see the edges of the grapple. This matters when I'm grabbling stumps and need a reference point so I know/guess/pretty much know what my unseen middle part of grapple is up to.

IslandTractor · May 26, 2017

EricTheOracle said:
It is more than that: I literally cannot see the center of my grapple and so a wider grapple gives me visibility.

A skid steer, track steer tele handler, or wheel loader the operator can see the center of the grapple when it is on the ground, but i cannot. I can only see the edges of the grapple. This matters when I'm grabbling stumps and need a reference point so I know/guess/pretty much know what my unseen middle part of grapple is up to.

I'll have a look this weekend. I do lots of stump grappling and have never had an issue seeing where the tip of the grapple is. I can certainly see the tip when in "neutral" position on the ground. Maybe we have different techniques. I don't "dump" the grapple before clamping on to a stump. I line up the grapple flat on the ground with the stump ahead, then tip the grapple down (I can easily see this) and then drive forward to ram the grapple under the stump and wedge it up. I probably cannot see the tips when fully "dumped" but I'm not sure. I'm curious now so I'll see if I can get some photos this weekend.

One other thought: Do you have a full SSQA plate on your grapple? If you look at the photo in my avatar you'll see that I have two partial plates. That allows me to see right through the center of the SSQA plate area to visualize where the grapple tips are. Never occurred to me that some grapples might have that critical view blocked.