The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[lostcreekranch]

Slight correction: you state in the little inserted message that the lift capacity was "maximized" with your grapple. I'm sure what you meant to say was that it would have been higher if they'd opted for a single rather than dual lid model!

Yep, 349 lbs. is significantly less than ............. 349 lbs?

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Slight correction: you state in the little inserted message that the lift capacity was "maximized" with your grapple. I'm sure what you meant to say was that it would have been higher if they'd opted for a single rather than dual lid model!

Man, I do not think you and that guy would get along very well.
Here's a direct quote from his latest email.
Travis

"Definitely recommend the double lid!

Here's a few pictures from Saturday

Thanks for making such a great product!"

 

[IslandTractor]

Yep, 349 lbs. is significantly less than ............. 349 lbs?

I see. One of the jaws weighs zero pounds. Wow! Talk about unobtainium.

 

[IslandTractor]

Man, I do not think you and that guy would get along very well.
Here's a direct quote from his latest email.
Travis

"Definitely recommend the double lid!

Here's a few pictures from Saturday

Thanks for making such a great product!"

Yeah, I don't see how a single lid could possibly have held that six foot log in place. I mean it probably would have bent in the middle without that second lid!

 

[EverythingAttachments]

But Island, if you're real good, you can use a dual lid as if it were a single lid === best of both worlds! :laughing:
Travis

Same guy...L2501

 

[IslandTractor]

Especially if the second jaw weighs zero pounds! :laughing:

 

[Sysop]

I honestly think folk make too much of the single lid versus dual lid debate. There really is not much that one is able to do that the other simply cannot. Actually there's nothing I can think of that one can do that the other can't. One might make a given task slightly more manageable in a very specific set of circumstances, but not so much so it's worth much of a debate.

Either model is much better than manually attaching a load to your loader bucket with chains or whatever.

 

[IslandTractor]

I honestly think folk make too much of the single lid versus dual lid debate. There really is not much that one is able to do that the other simply cannot. Actually there's nothing I can think of that one can do that the other can't. One might make a given task slightly more manageable in a very specific set of circumstances, but not so much so it's worth much of a debate.

Either model is much better than manually attaching a load to your loader bucket with chains or whatever.

Everybody loves their grapple. We all know that. I agree with your point that "there really is not much that one is able to do that the other simply cannot". Except that the dual lid model must weigh more with two lids and therefore leaves you with less net lift capacity. And, the dual lid will lighten your wallet unnecessarily. Also, dual lid grapples are always at least 60" (so heavier and more expensive yet) while a simple 48" is more than adequate for virtually any CUT task. That said, the dual lid is a good idea for someone who runs a firewood business or a construction company for debris collection.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Also, dual lid grapples are always at least 60"

Almost always. Mr L2501 has a 54" dual.

 

[IslandTractor]

Almost always. Mr L2501 has a 54" dual.

Fair enough. Makes the comparison easier. Single lid EA compact 50" 255lbs and $1500. Dual lid EA 54" compact 349lbs and $2000. Unless you are moving split and cut firewood I really don't see any difference in capability. The L2501 has a 1155lb loader capacity at pivot pins. Grapple is on average about 18-20" forward of pivot pins so without doing the trigonometry and just bumping up grapple weight by estimated 25% to account for forward displacement on the loader: a tractor with 255lb 50" single would have 1155-(255*1.25)=836lbs of net lift available. The same tractor with the 54" 349lb grapple would have 1155-(349*1.25)=719lbs of lift remaining.

For an extra $500 you get to lose 117lbs of load lift capacity. Great deal (not).:thumbdown:

And, why are you selling a grapple for tractors up to 55hp to someone with a 25hp tractor when you specifically make a grapple for tractors under 35lbs. Don't you counsel your customers?

 

[lostcreekranch]

Fair enough. Makes the comparison easier. Single lid EA compact 50" 255lbs and $1500. Dual lid EA 54" compact 349lbs and $2000. Unless you are moving split and cut firewood I really don't see any difference in capability. The L2501 has a 1155lb loader capacity at pivot pins. Grapple is on average about 18-20" forward of pivot pins so without doing the trigonometry and just bumping up grapple weight by estimated 25% to account for forward displacement on the loader: a tractor with 255lb 50" single would have 1155-(255*1.25)=836lbs of net lift available. The same tractor with the 54" 349lb grapple would have 1155-(349*1.25)=719lbs of lift remaining.

For an extra $500 you get to lose 117lbs of load lift capacity. Great deal (not).:thumbdown:

And, why are you selling a grapple for tractors up to 55hp to someone with a 25hp tractor when you specifically make a grapple for tractors under 35lbs. Don't you counsel your customers?

Untitled Document

If you read the attached, you will note 349 lbs. shown for both single and dual lid 54" compact grapple. Your comparisons above are two different size grapple? Small point but ....... valid.

I had same conversations with EA when I bought my 73" utility grapple. Same weight for both single and dual lid.

I already have an 84" HD with dual lids so, I bought single lid Utility grapple. Now I can argue with you and others from true basis of how they work for me in various jobs, not a bunch of tedious calculations that, in the end, mean little.

And ...........I bought the 73" over the 55" utility because I like to just pi$$ off all the "narrower is better" club.

 

[IslandTractor]

Untitled Document

If you read the attached, you will note 349 lbs. shown for both single and dual lid 54" compact grapple. Your comparisons above are two different size grapple? Small point but ....... valid.

I had same conversations with EA when I bought my 73" utility grapple. Same weight for both single and dual lid.

I already have an 84" HD with dual lids so, I bought single lid Utility grapple. Now I can argue with you and others from true basis of how they work for me in various jobs, not a bunch of tedious calculations that, in the end, mean little.

And ...........I bought the 73" over the 55" utility because I like to just pi$$ off all the "narrower is better" club.

Consider how a single and dual lid grapple could weigh exactly the same. Consider then whether the grapple manufacturer might have simply used the weight for one to describe both. If one grapple has two cylinders at 15-20lbs each and the other has one, how can they weigh the same. If one grapple has two pins for the jaw and the other has four pins, how can they weigh the same? If one has two 18" jaws and the other has one 24" jaw, how can they weigh the same amount? It simply doesn't pass the WTF test to argue that a dual lid grapple weighs exactly the same as a single lid grapple of the same size.

Happy to pi$$ you off any time.:cool2:

 

[TomSeller]

Especially if the second jaw weighs zero pounds! :laughing:

This has come up before. Each of the dual lids is narrower than the single. But I have a hard time thinking the extra cylinder, extra side plates, etc. weigh the same amount as a little more webbing. I think the EA website has a misprint.

 

[IslandTractor]

This has come up before. Each of the dual lids is narrower than the single. But I have a hard time thinking the extra cylinder, extra side plates, etc. weigh the same amount as a little more webbing. I think the EA website has a misprint.

Exactly. A little critical thinking makes it almost certain that the EA published weight is wrong. The only difference between one of the narrow double lids and the larger single lid is about 6-8 inches of cross bar supports that weigh perhaps ten pounds max while one of the dual jaw lids must weigh at least 40-50lbs leaving at least a 30-40lb difference.

But, some people believe everything they read on the interweb.

 

[94BULLITT]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Fair enough. Makes the comparison easier. Single lid EA compact 50" 255lbs and $1500. Dual lid EA 54" compact 349lbs and $2000. Unless you are moving split and cut firewood I really don't see any difference in capability. The L2501 has a 1155lb loader capacity at pivot pins. Grapple is on average about 18-20" forward of pivot pins so without doing the trigonometry and just bumping up grapple weight by estimated 25% to account for forward displacement on the loader: a tractor with 255lb 50" single would have 1155-(255*1.25)=836lbs of net lift available. The same tractor with the 54" 349lb grapple would have 1155-(349*1.25)=719lbs of lift remaining.

For an extra $500 you get to lose 117lbs of load lift capacity. Great deal (not).

And, why are you selling a grapple for tractors up to 55hp to someone with a 25hp tractor when you specifically make a grapple for tractors under 35lbs. Don't you counsel your customers?

You are forgetting how lite the Wicked grapple is. The dual lid 55" is probably about the same weight as your 48."

HP is not as important as the weight of the tractor and lift capacity. The L2501 is the same tractor as the L3901 with less power.

The L2501 in question is also on ag tires so it probably has really good pushing power for its size.

 

[IslandTractor]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

You are forgetting how lite the Wicked grapple is. The dual lid 55" is probably about the same weight as your 48."

HP is not as important as the weight of the tractor and lift capacity. The L2501 is the same tractor as the L3901 with less power.

The L2501 in question is also on ag tires so it probably has really good pushing power for its size.

Couple of points: 1) my grapple weighs about 300-320lbs. Some specs say it weighs 280 but I doubt that. Nevertheless, it is lighter than the dual lid EA and heavier than the 50" single lid.

2) I certainly agree that for grapple sizing HP is not as important as tractor weight first and loader capacity too. I agree the L/2501/L3301/L3901 seem to be clones with different engines but all are pretty close to the Kioti CK20 I used to own in size and are positioned right between the current CK2510 and 2610 on weight and loader capacity. None of these is a particularly heavy tractor (unless you are comparing to the Kubota B and BX series) so I don't see why the lightest version of the EA grapple line up (50" single jaw) wouldn't be the appropriate match. I doubt the L2501 can push anywhere near enough to damage the lightweight EA grapple. Ted mashed the prototype of that grapple with a Bobcat CT close of the Kioti CK20 which I think is heavier and almost the same power as the L2501. Nada problems.

3) I know people will often buy more implement and tractor than they need simply because we are a culture that loves "more". No issue with that. My point in these discussions is to make clear to new potential grapple buyers that there really is no advantage to buying "more" grapple than is appropriate for your size tractor (based as you noted more on tractor weight and loader capacity than horsepower which is pretty much irrelevant). Get the EA 50" single and save the $500 for your kids or grandkids college fund. You'll be richer and be able to lift more too.

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey Travis, you really should correct that grapple spec sheet that shows ALL of your dual jaw grapples weighing exactly the same as the equivalent size single jaw version. Simply not believable and obviously is confusing customers.

For starters, why not post the weight of a single jaw with cylinder and pins and also the weight of both double jaws with cylinders and pins. I'm sure you have some lying around.

 

[EverythingAttachments]

Hey Travis, you really should correct that grapple spec sheet that shows ALL of your dual jaw grapples weighing exactly the same as the equivalent size single jaw version. Simply not believable and obviously is confusing customers.

For starters, why not post the weight of a single jaw with cylinder and pins and also the weight of both double jaws with cylinders and pins. I'm sure you have some lying around.

We do need to reweigh sometime because we have added protective bars, more solid cylinder mounts with more bracing, and larger cylinders when we widened the opening. It shouldn't be much though.

When I get a break from selling grapples and my shipping dept gets a break from shipping grapples, we'll be on it. I haven't talked to any confused customers or certainly any unhappy Wicked Grapple customers like....ever!

Here's the current stack of truck freight orders. Each sheet is one order and many have more than one item.
I barely have enough time to go to the restroom! :laughing:
Travis

 

[IslandTractor]

We do need to reweigh sometime because we have added protective bars, more solid cylinder mounts with more bracing, and larger cylinders when we widened the opening. It shouldn't be much though.

When I get a break from selling grapples and my shipping dept gets a break from shipping grapples, we'll be on it. I haven't talked to any confused customers or certainly any unhappy Wicked Grapple customers like....ever!

Here's the current stack of truck freight orders. Each sheet is one order and many have more than one item.
I barely have enough time to go to the restroom! :laughing:
Travis

View attachment 503168

I hope Ted shares some of that profit with his hardworking fabricators, shippers and marketing team!!

 

[wngsprd]

I think I see my order in that stack. Let's see if I can remotely levitate it little higher in the stack.