Cold cut saw

[Luke'sScreenName]

You can get away with a crappier hold-down system before you break a blade, you can make bigger messes and less accurate cuts, which is part of why I GAVE my abrasive saw to my son - he does some patio brick work, etc, with masonry blades when he uses it at all...

I don't have a dry saw yet, but am in the "drool" stage - I DO have 2 of the little 4x6 bandsaws and a Jet 8x12, made 45* adapters for each so I can miter without disturbing the 90* setting - also have O/A torch, plasma, thin cutoff disks for side grinders, and an HF skil saw with metal cutting blades - each has (as commented on here) its strengths and weaknesses

Because blades for the dry saws run anywhere from $80 to $150, and because they don't tolerate crappy hold-downs any better than annular cutters do, I'm ONLY looking at sturdier built dry saws - CAST table, thicker stronger hold-downs - I haven't seen anything under $400 I'd be willing to pay for yet, if I had to pull the trigger today it'd likely be this one -

Evolution Power Tools EVOSAW38 15-Inch Steel Cutting Chop Saw - Power Circular Saws - Amazon.com

They call it a 15" saw, but it ships with a 14" blade - I'm thinking they're just trying to keep competitive on cost, since their 15" steel blade is about $80 more than the 14". I'll start with the one it comes with, then decide (based on whether I've wanted a deeper cut) whether to pay the extra for another 1/2" depth of cut... Steve

Found a better deal -

Evolution EVOSAW38 | Evolution Power Tools | Evolution 15

Let me know what you think of the Fein Slugger saw and the MK Morris Devil saw. They are comparable to the Evolution you mentioned. I'm trying to make the same decision. Thanks

 

[pmsmechanic]

I hand-hold angle iron when nipping off the corners. Forethought and special procedure are required. If it moves at all the teeth bite in and sh*t flies.

Heres a 2 1/2" steel tube that I split, hand-held.

Ok now slowly lift the tubing as you cut so that you only split one side. I'll do that with my abrasive saw but not my cold cut.

 

[Sodo]

Ok now slowly lift the tubing as you cut so that you only split one side. I'll do that with my abrasive saw but not my cold cut.

Agreed. I wouldn't lift it. You don't want vibration to move it either. This handheld bizness is dicey. Slow & careful gets the job done fast with this fine machine!!

For handheld "where" the cut is happening has a lot to do with the stability. For example cutting on the "upstroke" helps some but you have to THINK about it. Will vibration and tooth traction pull the "work" into the cut? Nipping the 45s off angle iron seems to be on the "safe side". I can show pics of this if anyone's interested.

There's a local tool sharpening company in Seattle that sharpens these blades for $22 each. I think they run about half as long as a new blade. Its $2 to replace each missing tooth so ya don't want your blades looking like a hockey player !

If you arrange your material to avoid cutting across a flat (like a plunge cut) your blade lasts much longer. I like to see the tooth in contact with material for 1/2" max. An abrasive blade has similar trouble, each tooth (or grain) gets too hot and the metal gets soft.

For example cutting square tube like a diamond is better for the blade, AS LONG AS you go slow and easy. If vibration or torque twists the tube out of the clamp there goes a few teeth (at least!). For cutting a LOT of sq tube it would be worthwhile to build a jig for that. A few jigs/fences would be worthwhile; Id like to see examples if anyone's built them. :thumbsup: I'd like to have a nibbler table with one of these blades, maybe build one from a saw that "had" a junk clamp?

 

[BukitCase]

"Let me know what you think of the Fein Slugger saw and the MK Morris Devil saw. They are comparable to the Evolution you mentioned. I'm trying to make the same decision. Thanks"

In all fairness, I've not found either of those saws for sale locally to "kick a tire" on - from what I can see, the Fein used to be a Jancy - it appears Jancy was the victim of "corporate Pac-Man", so I'd be curious if the reason Amazon wants 'WAY more for the Jancy version is because Fein found a way to cheapen it, or if it's only PERCEPTION.

MK Morris has been around quite a while, but I haven't found enough CLEAR pictures of their saw to have an opinion. Not much help there, sorry...

Personally, I'm a greedy ******* and want as much in "options" as I can get for the $$$, (as in, 15" blade capable) so I'll probably pull the trigger on the second link in my earlier post AFTER I take a closer look locally at that EVOSAW 380 (mainly the hold-down system, but also general sturdiness) - Also, most of my annular cutters are Evolution, they're a bit cheaper than some others, have held up well, include a pilot with each instead of charging you extra, and most come in the same size ROUND sleeve so I can easily make a cutter stand with just my wood-working drill press and a forstner bit ('nuther example of those "options" I mentioned )

If my local source can come reasonably close in price I'll get it there, otherwise $360 and free shipping beats the crap outa $415.... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Sodo, looks like Evolution agrees with you about blade life - here's their "fine print" comment regarding their "1000 cuts" claim -

"*Evolution's internal test conducted on mild steel 50mm (2") square tube - 6mm (1/4") wall cut in 'diamond' position."

Simplest jig I'd consider - just a piece of angle welded to a piece of maybe 1/4" FB, inside of the angle UP to cradle the workpiece - might need more than one, jig would obviously need to be narrower (when in position) than the work (unless the jig is kept OUTSIDE the vise jaws area, like on a separate table??)...Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Update - made it into town this afternoon for some other stuff, swung by the fastener place to "kick a tire" on the Evolution dry saw - only thing I was NOT impressed with was their price - $460 - Amazon wants $414, and discountsteel.com wants $360. Both online prices include shipping.

vise jaws look pretty sturdy, has the "quick adjust", unlike some of the lesser ones, and the whole thing feels pretty solid, so I'm probably 98% sure "WHICH" - and the "when" feels like it's gettin' closer too

Personally, I'm thinking MOST of the saws in the $400 price range would be fine as long as they do NOT have the cheesy stamped tinfoil base or anything that looks like it'd fold like a cheap suit - one or two of the "major" players have decided that us USERS don't know any more about tools than their accountants do, just look at their BASE and you'll know which ones

More when I finally take the bait :cool2: ...Steve

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Update - made it into town this afternoon for some other stuff, swung by the fastener place to "kick a tire" on the Evolution dry saw - only thing I was NOT impressed with was their price - $460 - Amazon wants $414, and discountsteel.com wants $360. Both online prices include shipping.

vise jaws look pretty sturdy, has the "quick adjust", unlike some of the lesser ones, and the whole thing feels pretty solid, so I'm probably 98% sure "WHICH" - and the "when" feels like it's gettin' closer too

Personally, I'm thinking MOST of the saws in the $400 price range would be fine as long as they do NOT have the cheesy stamped tinfoil base or anything that looks like it'd fold like a cheap suit - one or two of the "major" players have decided that us USERS don't know any more about tools than their accountants do, just look at their BASE and you'll know which ones

More when I finally take the bait :cool2: ...Steve

Thanks for the update.

 

[dragoneggs]

Thanks for the update.

ditto!

Now is there such an animal as a compound dry saw? At least in one direction?

 

[BukitCase]

Not that I'm aware of, if there is you KNOW it'd be quite a bit more $$$ - but check my post#94 in this thread for one idea -

Another remote possibility - SOME of the woodworking chop saws are BELT driven (my DeWalt 12" slider for one) - I've NOT looked inside, but it MIGHT be possible to fiddle with the pulley ratio on one to get the blade speed down under 1800rpm without losing power -

Also, if you only needed 1 or 2 SPECIFIC compound angles, you could use the existing angle vise on a dry cut saw for ONE angle, and fab any SECOND angle you wanted with a piece of FB and a piece of angle (weld the angle onto the FB at whatever angle you need your SECOND angle to be, then rest the WORK piece in that angle iron)

Sometimes a problem is only un-solvable when you stop thinkin' about it... Steve

 

[aczlan]

Another remote possibility - SOME of the woodworking chop saws are BELT driven (my DeWalt 12" slider for one) - I've NOT looked inside, but it MIGHT be possible to fiddle with the pulley ratio on one to get the blade speed down under 1800rpm without losing power -

Or, if they have the right type of motor, you could run a motor speed controller like you would for a router

Aaron Z

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

My problem will be that I frequently miter square or rectangular tube. These saws apparently prefer to cut as a diamond profile with a jig.

So, for example, making a 45deg miter as a 'diamond' is going to be like cutting crown molding with a non-compounding chop saw! Even worse with rectangular tube or 22.5deg angles!

Seems to me that those types of cuts will have to be made with a 'flat side up.' Am I making any sense? My thought is that you could move the work-piece to the front of the cutting table such that the blade hits the 'rear corner' first (the corner farthest away from you).

Any thoughts?

Edit: like the complicated set-up in the third picture from the link in post #94

 

[Sodo]

The diamond cut method simply avoids the long horizontal plunge part of cutting sq tube. Its for longer blade life. If the project requires a normal miter cut that's what you have to do.

Yes depending on tubing size you can spacer the workpiece rearward and get the same result. Miter cuts move the cut forward, achieving some of this "benefit".

You tend to think about things like this when buying $100 blades.

 

[bigtiller]

I see that some of the dry cut saws have a vacuum port on the back side. Does anyone know how well a shop vac would work connected to it?

The thought of the little chips embedded into the soles of my shoes is a bit of a deterrent.

 

[dragoneggs]

Not that I'm aware of, if there is you KNOW it'd be quite a bit more $$$ - but check my post#94 in this thread for one idea -

Another remote possibility - SOME of the woodworking chop saws are BELT driven (my DeWalt 12" slider for one) - I've NOT looked inside, but it MIGHT be possible to fiddle with the pulley ratio on one to get the blade speed down under 1800rpm without losing power -

Also, if you only needed 1 or 2 SPECIFIC compound angles, you could use the existing angle vise on a dry cut saw for ONE angle, and fab any SECOND angle you wanted with a piece of FB and a piece of angle (weld the angle onto the FB at whatever angle you need your SECOND angle to be, then rest the WORK piece in that angle iron)

Sometimes a problem is only un-solvable when you stop thinkin' about it... Steve

Yeah I don't mind 'getting jiggy with it' but wanted to make sure I knew fully what is available off the shelf in a reasonable price range before I make the 'plunge'. Especially if I opt for something more costly than the Evolution Rage II w/ upgraded blade.

 

[ajmaxham]

Check out ChuckE2009 review of the Trajan DM 250 duel miter metal dry cut saw. It is sold by SawBlade.com There is a link in ChuckE2009 video.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have a HUGE industrial table saw... It's belt powered and I've been toying with the idea of re-gearing it and adding a cold cut saw blade to it...

Seems to me, all I'd have to do is build a sliding table that runs in it's two slots, (for stability) with a clamp on it.

SR

 

[BukitCase]

Dragon, the ONLY Evolution saw I've been referring to is the EVOSAW380 - the Rage2 is a TOTALLY different saw - I've seen a few gripes about that one, a couple on this site; and if you compare the pictures zoomed in

Evolution Power Tools EVOSAW38 15-Inch Steel Cutting Chop Saw - Power Circular Saws - Amazon.com

Evolution Power Tools RAGE2 Multi Purpose Cutting Chop Saw, 14-Inch - Power Circular Saws - Amazon.com

you can see why - Rage2 has a stamped steel base, thinner bent steel vise parts, no quick release on the vise, a cheesy little chain and hook to stow it for travel, and isn't capable of taking a 15" blade -

The EVOSAW380 has a cast base, thicker CAST vise parts, a flip-up vise release that lets you put a work piece in and just push the vise handle forward til it hits, then a turn or two to tighten, an actual steel PIN for travel position, and weighs 9 pounds more (mostly the difference between stamped thin steel parts in base AND vise)

Dunno how long the price at discountsteel.com is good for, but that's the cheapest I've found the EVOSAW yet. In my experience, the saying "buy once, cry once" seems to be valid MOST of the time so to me, paying a bit more up front is usually worth it. That's why I have a Miller mm252 and a Hypertherm PM45 - I've had both for about 6 years, and they (along with my Jet 8x12 band saw) have never done ANYTHING but WORK.

I know it sounds like it, but I'm really NOT tryin' to push you into something you don't wanna do, only make sure you know some of the things they DON'T say in descriptions... Steve

 

[Sodo]

I see that some of the dry cut saws have a vacuum port on the back side. Does anyone know how well a shop vac would work connected to it?

The thought of the little chips embedded into the soles of my shoes is a bit of a deterrent.

Vacuum would be a nice feature I suppose. Ut I often take the saw outside wher the chips fall on the dirt. . My shop floor near the saw is covered with chips and I just walked thru the area then into the house and looked at my shoes. No chips in shoes and doesn't seem like they'd penetrate. Have never seen chips in the house, so I can say my shoes don't pick up chips. I've had a chip in my sock before and it wasn't pleasant but not often.

Clouds of carborundum dust settled on everything in my shop, evey tool, greasegun, grease tub, oil bottle, chainsaw chain, etc etc etc is what gives ME the willies. I'd much prefer the steel chips that settle pretty close to the saw.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

I have a HUGE industrial table saw... It's belt powered and I've been toying with the idea of re-gearing it and adding a cold cut saw blade to it...

Seems to me, all I'd have to do is build a sliding table that runs in it's two slots, (for stability) with a clamp on it.

SR

Kick back could be exciting!

 

[Xfaxman]

My Alfra dry cut has a chip drawer under the slot that catches most of the chips. It pulls out from the back to empty.