Branson Front Wheel Axle Failures

[CADplans]

I was "testing" my front axle yesterday,,,
This thread made me be a little more careful!! :thumbsup:

 

[PapeCAT]

It is a steering axle,, just like a 2WD.

Might have misunderstood my question. Clearly it is a steering axle, those knuckles look beefy! I was asking if it articulated up and down to assist in keeping all four wheels on the ground in uneven terrain, in the pics it looks like the axle housing might be fastened directly to the frame on both sides rather than with a pivot of sorts in the middle.

 

[CADplans]

Might have misunderstood my question. Clearly it is a steering axle, those knuckles look beefy! I was asking if it articulated up and down to assist in keeping all four wheels on the ground in uneven terrain, in the pics it looks like it might be fastened directly to the frame?

There is a pivot on the 4WD axle,,, just like a 2WD has,,
it does a pretty good job of keeping all 4 tires on the ground.

Actually, that axle pivots more than many 2WD tractors I have driven,,,

 

[LincTex]

With Industrial Toys comment and others like it in this thread, it seems to me that there is a second unaddressed safety issue. That is the reselling of used tractors that may have already experienced fatigue cracks or stress risors such that the health of a front axle spindle is compromised but not evident to the eye. I see no published instructions from Kukje/Branson informing the dealer or the purchaser of used tractors concerning how to ensure that unhealthy axles are not unwittingly being passed on to unsuspecting customers. I would appreciate opinions on this, ....

Opinions?

OK, here's mine - build a bridge and "get over it".

Tractors get abused. It happens. I've done some pretty bad stuff over the years that SHOULD HAVE broken more parts ands pieces than I have.

I have seen a LOT of broken tractor spindles in my life (and rear combine spindles, too).

I don't think ANY tractors should really have a FEL, but they are just so darn handy!

Nobody is perfect, no machine is perfect, and you're starting to sound a lot like a damnn tort lawyer already.

 

[Branson Bob]

Opinions?

OK, here's mine - build a bridge and "get over it".

Tractors get abused. It happens. I've done some pretty bad stuff over the years that SHOULD HAVE broken more parts ands pieces than I have.

I have seen a LOT of broken tractor spindles in my life (and rear combine spindles, too).

I don't think ANY tractors should really have a FEL, but they are just so darn handy!

Nobody is perfect, no machine is perfect, and you're starting to sound a lot like a damnn tort lawyer already.

Agreed.

We live in an imperfect world in which we're constantly confronted with risk/reward, cost/benefit, etc.

One part of being a competent person is understanding calculated risks and making decisions... even if the decision is to have fun and beat on a machine purchased with his/her own money.

A competent person is also a person with the cajones to understand that timidity gets you nowhere in life and that while some occasions call for finesse, others call for force.

 

[Cougsfan]

I think we should solve this issue with lawyers! A good lawyer can solve any issue by lawsuit. If an engineer uses a safety factor of 8 in designing an axle, he should be sued for not using a safety factor of 16. This, also will result in a 800 page owner's manual telling you what not to do because you might create an unsafe condition. It will also lead to tractors that are too expensive to buy because of the resultant lawsuits. This in turn results in none of us owning any tractors which, of course, the ultimate and perfect solution to this safety issue.

By the way, I had an front wheel come off my 1 ton truck once while driving along at 60 mph carrying a full, load of hay. The kid working at the tire shop forgot to tighten the lugs. I forgot to sue them. Fortunately nothing particularly bad happened. (You wouldn't believe how far an unattached wheel turning at 60 mph can roll! It took us hours to find it) It makes me wonder how many tractors have actually rolled over from an axle breaking.

Sorry Cliff, I don't really mean to pick on you, but I suggest you just get over it for your own well being.

 

[dancath]

Very good info. Dave I've learned a lot. Good to know my Branson is no worse than others like a lot of readers would imply without reading your post.I'll be loading my rears with more in the future.

Thanks again

Dan

 

[DavesTractor]

I think most of us are on the same page. Tractors, cars, trucks...all have some risks of failure and most failures can be safety issues. A person that cannot accept some risks ought to just hire his work done.

I suppose we can look at airplanes if we want to really "up" the safety factor. Annuals - or once every 100 hours whichever comes first, we can tear the tractor down and check everything. At certain hours items would be replaced even if they looked fine. At certain age, other items would be replaced, even if the tractor sat in a shed and was not used. All work done by certified tractor mechanics. Yearly the tractor operator would need a medical. He would need to keep a log. And before he ever had a solo operation session, he would need at least 10 hours classroom and 10 hours with a co-pilot. Then at 40-80 hours, depending on how sharp the guy is, he could get take a test and see if he could get his license.

Honestly, super well trained operators and super well maintained tractors would be safer, but aviation level standards would put tractoring out of reach of the common man. And who wants more regulation? And tractors don't fall out of the sky.

I bet some of you pilots could write what I did above in a much better fashion. But anyway you look at it, tractoring would go from a pretty cheap and fun hobby to a $20k/year (or more) nightmare.

 

[LincTex]

I bet some of you pilots could write what I did above in a much better fashion. But anyway you look at it, tractoring would go from a pretty cheap and fun hobby to a $20k/year (or more) nightmare.

As a 27 year FAA-licensed Airframe & Powerplant mechanic, and 17 year commercial pilot - I'd say you pretty much nailed it square on the head.

 

[CliffNeudorf]

Here is mine from the spring

I was moving dirt . Drove into pile and continued to drive to get more dirt Rear tires spun some and heard a click no movement. Thought it came out of gear lifted bucket tried to reverse. Rear tires spun front didn't.
Dumped load and tried reverse . started to move and tire fell off.
$500 laterView attachment 499290View attachment 499291

Hi rasorbackq, thank you for responding to this thread. Collectively, we all need to be fully transparent about these issues and to be able to talk openly about them in this forum if we hop to achieve positive conclusions to the questions raised.

The failure you have experienced seems to have been benign although costly. If you don't mind sharing I would be interested to know if any representative from Kukje or Branson reviewed and examined the broken bits and was there a cause of failure determination made by them? In particular was there a determination that the failure was due to overload experienced during this particular operation or was it an accumulated series of events that led to the final separation of the axle? To my knowledge this is now the 5th Branson axle failure that has been reported on TBN with a further 2 for other manufacturers. It would be interesting to know what hours your axle failed at. It is my understanding that of the previous 4, three axles failed near the same time and the 4th was relatively new 2-3 hundred hours old.

In this thread different contributors have identified what would amount to three generalized source that could contribute to these failures. One of the conditions addressed the use of additional weight aft of the rear wheels to counter balance FEL induced loads that would lead to overload of the front wheel axle. Those comments seem quite sensible to me but Kukje/ Branson do not seem to have taken to heart or felt the need to publish such guidance concerning the use of counterweights to protect the health of their axles. Have they said anything to you concerning the need for such weights? I take it you were not within the warranty period.

For everybody's general info on this subject I have attached two YouTube urls published by the Branson Forum in Germany which demonstrate the use of the FEL with and without weights. I attach these URLs because Bransom Forum DE seem to be ambivalent or unaware of the use of weights to protect the health of the front axle. If there was an issue, one would think that they would be using the weights in both of these videos. Comments would be appreciated.

Branson Tractor 525R | Front loader test - YouTube - Branson Forum demonstration - FEL moving heavy tree trunk sections, no aft weights

Branson Tractor F47Rn - YouTube - FEL front forks with aft weights

 

[aczlan]

Hi rasorbackq, thank you for responding to this thread. Collectively, we all need to be fully transparent about these issues and to be able to talk openly about them in this forum if we hop to achieve positive conclusions to the questions raised.

The failure you have experienced seems to have been benign although costly. If you don't mind sharing I would be interested to know if any representative from Kukje or Branson reviewed and examined the broken bits and was there a cause of failure determination made by them? In particular was there a determination that the failure was due to overload experienced during this particular operation or was it an accumulated series of events that led to the final separation of the axle? To my knowledge this is now the 5th Branson axle failure that has been reported on TBN with a further 2 for other manufacturers. It would be interesting to know what hours your axle failed at. It is my understanding that of the previous 4, three axles failed near the same time and the 4th was relatively new 2-3 hundred hours old.

In this thread different contributors have identified what would amount to three generalized source that could contribute to these failures. One of the conditions addressed the use of additional weight aft of the rear wheels to counter balance FEL induced loads that would lead to overload of the front wheel axle. Those comments seem quite sensible to me but Kukje/ Branson do not seem to have taken to heart or felt the need to publish such guidance concerning the use of counterweights to protect the health of their axles. Have they said anything to you concerning the need for such weights? I take it you were not within the warranty period.

For everybody's general info on this subject I have attached two YouTube urls published by the Branson Forum in Germany which demonstrate the use of the FEL with and without weights. I attach these URLs because Bransom Forum DE seem to be ambivalent or unaware of the use of weights to protect the health of the front axle. If there was an issue, one would think that they would be using the weights in both of these videos. Comments would be appreciated.

Branson Tractor 525R | Front loader test - YouTube - Branson Forum demonstration - FEL moving heavy tree trunk sections, no aft weights

Branson Tractor F47Rn - YouTube - FEL front forks with aft weights

I'm not sure how you counted the two failures that we had with a LS, but they where both the same side of the front axle.
The tractor had less than 500 hours on it for the first failur, probably closer to 100 hours.

Aaron Z

 

[CliffNeudorf]

I'm not sure how you counted the two failures that we had with a LS, but they where both the same side of the front axle.
The tractor had less than 500 hours on it for the first failur, probably closer to 100 hours.

Aaron Z

Aaron,

Thanks, I counted them as being LH & RH for other manufacturers, I missed that on the same side. Thanks for the correction.

 

[CliffNeudorf]

I think most of us are on the same page. Tractors, cars, trucks...all have some risks of failure and most failures can be safety issues. A person that cannot accept some risks ought to just hire his work done.

I suppose we can look at airplanes if we want to really "up" the safety factor. Annuals - or once every 100 hours whichever comes first, we can tear the tractor down and check everything. At certain hours items would be replaced even if they looked fine. At certain age, other items would be replaced, even if the tractor sat in a shed and was not used. All work done by certified tractor mechanics. Yearly the tractor operator would need a medical. He would need to keep a log. And before he ever had a solo operation session, he would need at least 10 hours classroom and 10 hours with a co-pilot. Then at 40-80 hours, depending on how sharp the guy is, he could get take a test and see if he could get his license.

Honestly, super well trained operators and super well maintained tractors would be safer, but aviation level standards would put tractoring out of reach of the common man. And who wants more regulation? And tractors don't fall out of the sky.

I bet some of you pilots could write what I did above in a much better fashion. But anyway you look at it, tractoring would go from a pretty cheap and fun hobby to a $20k/year (or more) nightmare.

Hello Dave, interesting reading your opining about farming moving to aviation style regulation. In my opinion this will only happen when pigs fly! Forgive me, such a concept gives me a bit of a smile. I will say that in the aviation world of today, operators are mandatory participants and sit at the same table as the manufacturer when the decisions are taken to develop and include an applicable and effective maintenance task in a maintenance program. Operators are vital in the decision process for their practical experience and knowledge of how equipment performs or is likely to perform in service. I am not aware that this is happening in the agricultural world.

Dave, when I started this thread it was to gather knowledge and improve my awareness of how the Branson tractors front axles are behaving in service, to stimulate conversation and develop ideas and operator knowledge around what I believe is a safety issue associated with the Kukje / Branson compact tractor front wheel axle failures. I take well your point that these failures occur with other manufacturers as well. By and large we have had a good discussion and I believe some general consensus has been achieved.

Relative to this thread and your above comment if I can paraphrase, you raise the concept of acceptable risk in agriculture as it applies to safety failures and suggest that "... A person that cannot accept some risks ought to just hire his work done. ". From a conceptual perspective I don't quite understand how this applies to Dealerships particularly when a Dealer knows that the front axle can be easily damaged in service but accepts on trade in a used tractor and then resells that used tractor to a new operator.

You have given quite a detailed explanation of how easy it is to fail an axle in service. Elsewhere in this thread others have commented that these axles may well have suffered stress load leading to crack initiation/partial failure much earlier in their life. These cracks are hidden cracks, they are unknown to exist unless specific inspections are developed to check for their existence. The comments suggest that they will continue to grow in service until complete failure of the axle takes place at a future time. Knowing this, and from a hypothetical perspective could you address the following questions: 1) How would you accept such a used tractor for resale? 2) Would you inspect its front axles? 3) Or would you replace the front axles? 4) Or would you resell the tractor without examination of the axles and just accept the associated risks? I guess I don't quite understand how one would quantify the acceptable risk in that case. 5) In such case would you advise the prospective purchaser of the potential for failure of the axle 6) or would you just sell it to them without further comment?

Dave, I am a small scale farmer, 125 acres of land, registered with a national farmers organization. Farmers do not like risk and inherently avoid risk if possible. I rely on my tractor for the successful completion of my work and I am not into hobby farming. I am quite concerned about the occupational health and safety of my employees and family on the farm. I cannot afford the loss of my tractor, I am not into Tractoring whatever that is. I pay significant Workplace Safety and Insurance Board premiums for the privilege of operating my farm. I do not want my premiums going up due to accidents that need not occur and which can in my opinion be easily addressed by the manufacturer and the distributor. I guess what I am trying to say is that we all are in the Kukje / Branson story together. I believe that working together without finger wagging or pointing we should be able to assist Kukje and Branson enhance the quality of their product for the furtherance of all our individual and mutual needs. If we can do that, then I guess that will be when I get over it as some are suggesting that I do.

You have said that you have seen a number of axle failures on the Branson. Would you be able advise how many, at what hours of operation they failed while respecting any confidentiality agreements that you may have signed with Kukje and Branson? Have you ever seen repairs of the broken axle spindle by putting a dowel in and welding the bits back together as are mentioned in other threads on this site? Also, to your knowledge has Kukje made available a heavier duty front axle assy for the 3510H series? It has been suggested to me that such an axle modification exists, is there any truth in the suggestion? I would appreciate your comments in that area.

 

[DavesTractor]

Cliff,

Your underlying premise is that Branson/Kukje tractors have a safety issue with their front axles. And the discussion goes from there. Fair enough to have such a conversation, but I dispute your primary premise. Branson front axles can be broken, but no more so than John Deere, Kubota, Kioti, LS and so on. They build a good front axle and failures are rare and generally operator induced. You then say, if I can paraphrase, that if it is an operator issue then it is still Branson's fault for not warning you properly. I think an operator needs to take some responsibility, but I will grant you that a course in how to operate a tractor properly might be beneficial to some users. Perhaps more can be done by way of instructions in manuals, but I can think of lists of items that could be discussed in a manual to make an operator more qualified. The manual then becomes a course, and I do not think that is the intention.

Also, you take as fact the opinion of some that damage could be initiated and latent, just waiting to fail. And you speak as though this is a special circumstance relating to your tractor brand. I do think that occasionally an event will cause damage that is not immediately known and a failure can happen later, but this sort of thing is rare and the time frame between the initial damaging event and then the failure will likely be relatively short. Just like a tire on a car that hits an object on the road, then 300 miles later while driving on a sunny spring day on a smooth road the tire blows. It was not the smooth road that caused the failure, nor a bad tire.

As far as your questions on used tractors, your underlying premise gets in the way, as I dispute it. Your questions are heavily biased. Each question assumes that these axles are risky and unsafe.

I have been selling Branson tractors for 15 years, and we sell a lot of them. If I told you we have never seen a front axle failure, it would be a lie. But they are rare. I do not have data on hand to share on failure rates for any of the brands we sell, but it is well within industry norms. As to your question on welding back together an axle, that is not an acceptable repair from my perspective.

I'm just about done commenting on this thread, Cliff. But you have been polite and it would not be my intention to stifle your conversation. But I think I have shared all that is helpful, and I'm not at all interested in a lot of questions from hypothetical scenarios.

 

[aczlan]

As far as your questions on used tractors, your underlying premise gets in the way, as I dispute it. Your questions are heavily biased. Each question assumes that these axles are risky and unsafe.

IMO, it's no more risky than buying a used pickup.
Yes, there is a chance that the back axle might suddenly lockup and cause you to come to a dead stop in the middle of the road, but it's extremely unlikely.

I have been selling Branson tractors for 15 years, and we sell a lot of them. If I told you we have never seen a front axle failure, it would be a lie. But they are rare. I do not have data on hand to share on failure rates for any of the brands we sell, but it is well within industry norms. As to your question on welding back together an axle, that is not an acceptable repair from my perspective.

This^

Aaron Z

 

[Texasmark]

Here is mine from the spring

I was moving dirt . Drove into pile and continued to drive to get more dirt Rear tires spun some and heard a click no movement. Thought it came out of gear lifted bucket tried to reverse. Rear tires spun front didn't.
Dumped load and tried reverse . started to move and tire fell off.
$500 laterView attachment 499290View attachment 499291

With differential in the rear, unless you had your foot on the differential lock, the rear wasn't driving with the primary rear drive tire in the air....the "accessory" front drive unit was asked to do all the work under impact. Not surprised.

 

[Texasmark]

I've used my 2007, 6530 for going on 10 years. I abused the front end recently and as a result I think the problem started with failed bearings on the front wheel drive units, not on the axle proper. The wheel/wheel gear box didn't fall off but some separation was visible, oil was leaking out which is what caught my attention, and who knows. I was using the trans-hydraulic fluid as recommended in my service manual in the front gear box.

Upon obtaining new parts and talking with the Branson rep, I installed 85w-140 per his supporting my suggestion. As a point of reference, my 2400, manufactured some 9 years later, is very specific about using 80-90W gear oil in the front axle. Is there a lesson to be learned here???? I think so.

 

[rasorbackq]

Hi rasorbackq, thank you for responding to this thread. Collectively, we all need to be fully transparent about these issues and to be able to talk openly about them in this forum if we hop to achieve positive conclusions to the questions raised.

The failure you have experienced seems to have been benign although costly. If you don't mind sharing I would be interested to know if any representative from Kukje or Branson reviewed and examined the broken bits and was there a cause of failure determination made by them? In particular was there a determination that the failure was due to overload experienced during this particular operation or was it an accumulated series of events that led to the final separation of the axle? To my knowledge this is now the 5th Branson axle failure that has been reported on TBN with a further 2 for other manufacturers. It would be interesting to know what hours your axle failed at. It is my understanding that of the previous 4, three axles failed near the same time and the 4th was relatively new 2-3 hundred hours old.

In this thread different contributors have identified what would amount to three generalized source that could contribute to these failures. One of the conditions addressed the use of additional weight aft of the rear wheels to counter balance FEL induced loads that would lead to overload of the front wheel axle. Those comments seem quite sensible to me but Kukje/ Branson do not seem to have taken to heart or felt the need to publish such guidance concerning the use of counterweights to protect the health of their axles. Have they said anything to you concerning the need for such weights? I take it you were not within the warranty period.

For everybody's general info on this subject I have attached two YouTube urls published by the Branson Forum in Germany which demonstrate the use of the FEL with and without weights. I attach these URLs because Bransom Forum DE seem to be ambivalent or unaware of the use of weights to protect the health of the front axle. If there was an issue, one would think that they would be using the weights in both of these videos. Comments would be appreciated.

Branson Tractor 525R | Front loader test - YouTube - Branson Forum demonstration - FEL moving heavy tree trunk sections, no aft weights

Branson Tractor F47Rn - YouTube - FEL front forks with aft weights

.
Cliff my tractor has 1100 hrs now and it happened before 1000 hrs maybe 850-900hrs. Hants equipment asked no questions But about a month before when I was getting my oil change supplies they asked me if I had any issues with my front axles as they had been some older Branson front axle breaking issues.
I said I had not and hoped I didn't have any.
4 weeks later there I was.

 

[rasorbackq]

Very interesting read ....... I would have never thought that a tractor that can lift 2000lbs would ever break an axle even with a full bucket .
If its rated to 2000lbs then the hydraulics should not lift the bucket of dirt unless its been adjusted to be stronger.

I understand the action now of ballast on the rear to lighten the axle weight with a load But when I driving to a pile of dirt and have over worked the bucket it doesn't lift. because its too heavy for the hydraulics . I back up until the bucket can lift .
I wouldn't think an axle should snap.

 

[Texasmark]

I was "testing" my front axle yesterday,,,
This thread made me be a little more careful!! :thumbsup:

Nice soil.