Linear Actuator for ct120 grapple

[ticolawnllc]

I found a leak from my left rear tire too. A friend found a equipment mechanic I'm going to try. When I talk to him about the repair I'll see if he can do the auxiliaries too.

 

[ticolawnllc]

My diverter was $100 and another $200 in fittings and hoses. So, $300

where did you buy your stuff?

 

[ticolawnllc]

Everything attachments has a nice grapple I've been looking at. It only 270 lbs. that should work well my my tractor.

I think I am going to add the auxiliaries. Not sure who is doing it but it's going to get done. I'll just put it on a card so I don't spend my winter cash on it.

It's calling for snow in a week or so. As soon as the threat of snow passes I'll bring it in to the shop.

 

[IslandTractor]

My bobcat ct120 can lift about 400 lbs. could a Linear Actuator with a lift force of 200lbs work for a thumb on a bucket. Mostly to hold brush on the bucket for traveling. I don't intend to lift logs with the bucket tilted down position.

Putting a diverter valve in seems like a lot of work money. I don't know anyone who can put one in and frankly I don't want to.

I found one for $58 and I'm going to see what it can do. It has. 12" travel I hope it's enough.

Your Bobcat CT120 can lift a lot more than 400lbs. Where did you get that figure? The Kioti equivalent is the CK20 and it lifts over 1000lbs. The Bobcat loader is different but I seriously doubt it is limited to 400lbs lift.

 

[ticolawnllc]

Your Bobcat CT120 can lift a lot more than 400lbs. Where did you get that figure? The Kioti equivalent is the CK20 and it lifts over 1000lbs. The Bobcat loader is different but I seriously doubt it is limited to 400lbs lift.

That's the spec on the brochure. But I don't believe they're taking into account the way to the bucket. I loaded pieces of logs as large as the machine can pick up into my dump trailer. once I got weighed the math didn't add up.
I estimated the pieces at 600 pounds each but the reality came out to be closer to 450.
I also referenced a log weight calculator and the estimate for the size of the pieces came in the high 400 pound range at best

 

[ticolawnllc]

Your Bobcat CT120 can lift a lot more than 400lbs. Where did you get that figure? The Kioti equivalent is the CK20 and it lifts over 1000lbs. The Bobcat loader is different but I seriously doubt it is limited to 400lbs lift.

I understand also that in my application the log actually protrudes out of the bucket increasing the leverage. I'm sure that if I was moving dirt I would probably be a little higher on that maybe like 700 pounds

 

[IslandTractor]

Lift capacity is typically measured at pivot pins and is done to full height. A loader can lift more than its "rated" capacity to less than full height.

Any load that is forward of the pivot pins does lower the net weight capacity. That said, I'm pretty sure that a CT120 could lift a 600lb stump four feet off the ground and move it. My CK20 could easily do that and did so many times. Photos below.

 

[ticolawnllc]

Lift capacity is typically measured at pivot pins and is done to full height. Any load that is forward of the pivot pins lowers the net weight capacity. That said, I'm pretty sure that a CT120 could lift a 600lb stump four feet off the ground and move it. My CK20 could easily do that and did so many times. Photos below.

I have to get 20 bags of salt. @40 lbs a bag I'll double check.

 

[roadhunter]

Your Bobcat CT120 can lift a lot more than 400lbs. Where did you get that figure? The Kioti equivalent is the CK20 and it lifts over 1000lbs. The Bobcat loader is different but I seriously doubt it is limited to 400lbs lift.

My CT-450 would barely handle 1,000 pounds safely by the time you backed out the weight of the QA and the bucket or forks and allowed a safety factor for uneven terrain situations like driving downhill and having to stop. He is probably pretty close for a safe working load capacity.

Tractor capacities are very deceiving compared to other equipment like skid steers. What tractors show is "best case scenario" with counter weights on flat ground. On a skid steer that would be called tipping point, not safe working load. Anytime you get where nearly all the weight is on the front axle and the rears are barely touching you are beyond the safe working load IMO because any little dip in the road can cause instability if one tire sinks in. Those little front axles and tires on CUT's were not designed to carry the entire weight of the load plus most of the tractor.

 

[aeblank]

where did you buy your stuff?

The diverter came from mtnviewranch, a member here.

The houses came from discounthydraulichose.com

 

[ticolawnllc]

The diverter came from mtnviewranch, a member here. The houses came from discounthydraulichose.com

I take it you got a manual valve.
All the electric ones I see are $450 and up. Also I would be gambling on the fitting working on my tractor.

I think I'm going to pay bob cat. It's a sure thing and I don't have time mess around. Thank you for all your help.

 

[IslandTractor]

I take it you got a manual valve.
All the electric ones I see are $450 and up. Also I would be gambling on the fitting working on my tractor.

I think I'm going to pay bob cat. It's a sure thing and I don't have time mess around. Thank you for all your help.

Why not just get a set of rear remotes and use that to control your grapple device. I did that on my CK20 and it worked perfectly. Best part is that you get a set of very useful rear remotes as well as a simple bullet proof system to control the grapple. After you get the rear remotes installed it costs only about $100 for the hoses and fittings to rig the grapple control.

 

[IslandTractor]

My CT-450 would barely handle 1,000 pounds safely by the time you backed out the weight of the QA and the bucket or forks and allowed a safety factor for uneven terrain situations like driving downhill and having to stop. He is probably pretty close for a safe working load capacity.

Tractor capacities are very deceiving compared to other equipment like skid steers. What tractors show is "best case scenario" with counter weights on flat ground. On a skid steer that would be called tipping point, not safe working load. Anytime you get where nearly all the weight is on the front axle and the rears are barely touching you are beyond the safe working load IMO because any little dip in the road can cause instability if one tire sinks in. Those little front axles and tires on CUT's were not designed to carry the entire weight of the load plus most of the tractor.

I guess we are talking about two different things. Ballast is of course critical to safe use of an FEL. On a CT120, a mounted Bush Hog provides about 600lbs of weight well behind the rear axle and will certainly relieve strain on the front axle. Also, this is a CT120/CK20, not some wimpy Kubota lawnmower. Look at the size of the front axle compared to lighter Kubota tractors. An appropriately ballasted CT120 shouldn't have any trouble moving a heavy object. You won't be able to lift 1000lbs anything close to full height and certainly wouldn't want to move even 500lbs at full height but lifting a heavy object high enough (2-3 feet) to move it while keeping center of gravity low is absolutely possible. Done it many times. Get the ballast right before starting. Stop and readjust ballast if the rear end feels light when moving.

 

[roadhunter]

I guess we are talking about two different things. Ballast is of course critical to safe use of an FEL. On a CT120, a mounted Bush Hog provides about 600lbs of weight well behind the rear axle and will certainly relieve strain on the front axle. Also, this is a CT120/CK20, not some wimpy Kubota lawnmower. Look at the size of the front axle compared to lighter Kubota tractors. An appropriately ballasted CT120 shouldn't have any trouble moving a heavy object. You won't be able to lift 1000lbs anything close to full height and certainly wouldn't want to move even 500lbs at full height but lifting a heavy object high enough (2-3 feet) to move it while keeping center of gravity low is absolutely possible. Done it many times. Get the ballast right before starting. Stop and readjust ballast if the rear end feels light when moving.

Actually we aren't. I am well aware of what using a rear ballast means. I never said the CT120 was a lawnmower either.

What I said was the rating given for tractors is best case scenario with a rear ballast on level ground. By the time you back out the weight of the QA, and grapple as well as take into account a safety factor for uneven terrain there is not much capacity left and when you do that the weight of the load as well as the majority of the tractor is all on the little front axle which was not designed for that.

I had a CT-450 and with a heavy rear blade I could pick up small round bales, likely 1,000 pounds or less and even then there was only a couple hundred pounds on the rear tires, everything else was on the front axle. If you are driving and that side goes into a dip or sinks into mud it is very unstable.

I would guess that the OP is correct in thinking he will be able to safely carry around 400-500 pounds in a grapple.

Out of curiosity how do you adjust your ballast? Is that like yelling for junior to come stand on the brushhog so you can move this load lol.

 

[kennyd]

Hydraulic Multiplier, SCV Splitter / Diverter Manifold Valve with Couplers and Command Switch, Turn 1 Circuit into 2 Circuits! Amazon.com: Hydraulic Multiplier, SCV Splitter / Diverter Manifold Valve with Couplers and Command Switch, Turn 1 Circuit into 2 Circuits!: Home Improvement
I found this on Amazon. Looked easy enough to install. Are the specks right?

This is a "Fasse" style diverter meant to hang onto the rear remote couplers, the main issue with them them is the added weight of the valve itself and then the four hoses connected to it. If you tried to use it on the loader ports, you likely would not have enough room for it-and it would block the other two couplers for the lift/lower circuit.

If you search the Hydraulics forum for the term "diverter" there is hours of reading about various types and kits. We sell one that includes the electrical side, and other companies sell just bare-bones ones.

 

[ticolawnllc]

This is a "Fasse" style diverter meant to hang onto the rear remote couplers, the main issue with them them is the added weight of the valve itself and then the four hoses connected to it. If you tried to use it on the loader ports, you likely would not have enough room for it-and it would block the other two couplers for the lift/lower circuit. If you search the Hydraulics forum for the term "diverter" there is hours of reading about various types and kits. We sell one that includes the electrical side, and other companies sell just bare-bones ones.

thank you

 

[aeblank]

I take it you got a manual valve.
All the electric ones I see are $450 and up.

You're looking in the wrong place, then. It's fully electric. Works great.

 

[ticolawnllc]

You're looking in the wrong place, then. It's fully electric. Works great. <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=496762"/>

I pm your guy.

 

[IslandTractor]

Actually we aren't. I am well aware of what using a rear ballast means. I never said the CT120 was a lawnmower either.

What I said was the rating given for tractors is best case scenario with a rear ballast on level ground. By the time you back out the weight of the QA, and grapple as well as take into account a safety factor for uneven terrain there is not much capacity left and when you do that the weight of the load as well as the majority of the tractor is all on the little front axle which was not designed for that.

I had a CT-450 and with a heavy rear blade I could pick up small round bales, likely 1,000 pounds or less and even then there was only a couple hundred pounds on the rear tires, everything else was on the front axle. If you are driving and that side goes into a dip or sinks into mud it is very unstable.

I would guess that the OP is correct in thinking he will be able to safely carry around 400-500 pounds in a grapple.

Out of curiosity how do you adjust your ballast? Is that like yelling for junior to come stand on the brushhog so you can move this load lol.

1) I never said YOU didn't know what ballast was about. You had however raised ballast in a discussion that was focused on lifting power. I tried to clarify for the OP.
2) One plans ballast needs ahead of time. Not rocket science. If you find during a lift that you misjudged and need more ballast then stop what you are doing and fit some different 3PT implement to raise ballast. As is clearly documented in any tractor owner's manual, ballast must be added when using the FEL. On my CK20 I had beet juice in the rear tires and I never lifted anything significant without either a bush hog (about 500lbs) or a backhoe (about 700-800lbs) extending from the rear of the tractor. On rare occasion I have extended the BH boom with a bucket full of dirt to maximize ballast leverage. I wouldn't travel more than a short distance slowly with such a set up.
3) I could raise the rear wheels even with the bush hog and rimguard if I stuck the grapple under a fresh stump and curled/lifted. No biggie. Just set the tractor back down and work to loosen up the stump more by ripping side roots before trying again. I removed dozens of stumps that way. Perfectly safe. The loads on the front axle in such a situation are smooth and progressive not jerky or dynamic and the engineers built the front axles to manage whatever the loader could deliver.
4) I have a tractor almost identical to your CT450, the Kioti DK40se. I assure you it can lift more than 1000lbs and move it safely. Photo below shows a granite boulder that by volume weighed between 2000-2500lbs. I didn't try to lift it higher than seen in the photo and I lowered it almost to the ground before moving it. I used a BH for ballast. The rear felt light but as I was only moving 100 feet or so to the side of the field I just moved slowly and finished the job. I didn't see whether I could lift it higher as I had no reason to but I'm pretty sure I was about maxed out on lift and recognized it would be stupid to raise the tractor center of gravity unnecessarily when lifting such a load.
5) DK40 also lifted a 7ft section of Jersey barrier at about 400lbs per foot =about 2800lbs. I didn't try to lift it higher than I needed to to move it several hundred yards across a field. I recall I only had a flail mower as ballast.
6) To get back to the OP's situation, he has a CT120 which I believe has just about the same lift capacity as a CK20: a bit over 1000lbs to full height at pivot pins. A 48" bucket holds about 1/4 yard so if loaded with sand would weigh about 600-700lbs. I have lifted that much sand to near full height with a CK20 when loading a pickup truck with sand.

Bottom line: The CT120 can certainly lift more than the 400lbs in the bucket estimated by the OP. Just ballast it properly and pay attention to dynamic forces when moving (slowly!).

 

[lennyzx11]

My diverter was $100 and another $200 in fittings and hoses. So, $300 all-in.

This grapple would be too big, but maybe a 48" Wicked...
Tomahawk Attachments :: Tomahawk 66" One-Cylinder Brush Grapple

Sub Compact BX Tractor Mini Wicked Root Grapple 33"

Seems like a lot of functionality for $1500-ish.

I put a diverter valve from KennyDs on my loader arm in order to run my grapple from EA. All in with making new lines kinda expensively at the local parts store, I was under 500 bucks.
I think the winch with springs and linear actuator aren't going to be robust enough.

There was a thread about a mechanical closing bucket and grapple that was done by clever use of linkages that the bucket closed against the grapple as it curled back. I can't find it now.